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Re: [SFVeg] Can we just have this list be for vegetarian issues?

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  • Paris Harvey
    I am on your side Mathew. I think this dialogue is soo important. My intent was not meant as disrespectful at all! Nor do I disagree. I want to see more, but
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 19 10:40 PM
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      I am on your side Mathew. I think this dialogue is soo important. My intent was not meant as disrespectful at all! Nor do I disagree. I want to see more, but I received an email from the group (and I noticed a CC to you and Pete) asking us not to continue as I was the one who stated I enjoyed this and felt both you and Pete had good points to share.
      I was merely offering a seperate option to continue the dialogue and hope that others would join in.
      I perhaps misinterpreted this warning from the group. In that case carry on!


      Matthew G Liebman <mliebman@...> wrote:
      According to the email I received when I joined this group, the SFVeg
      guidelines do not limit discussion to just group events or vegetarianism.
      They "encourage friendly discussions... pertaining to... animal rights."
      The issue of nonviolent direct action certainly fits within that rubric. I
      don't think anyone has been unfriendly or abrassive in their defense of
      their beliefs.

      The society also "promote[s] mutual respect to other peoples' ideas." While
      you are more than welcome to passionately disagree with direct action, I
      find it disrespectful to want to silence discourse and debate regarding
      animal rights strategies, simply because you find them unpalatable.

      If you are simply frustrated with the VOLUME of emails (which is certainly
      understandable), you can always change your settings in Yahoo Groups to
      recieve a daily digest. You will receive 1 email per day containing all of
      that day's posts. You won't lose out on any info, but will be able to skim
      or skip the discussions you don't care for.

      Below is the partial text of the "welcome" email for the SFVeg group. If I
      have misinterpreted it, perhaps the moderators might correct me.

      -Matthew

      "This yahoo group is a way to connect the friends, supporters and members
      of SFVS to the vegetarian community and to those interested on vegetarian
      issues and related causes.

      You can personalize this yahoo group to suit your personal requirements not
      to send or send you emails, or simply send you daily digest on your set
      frequency.

      As with any other yahoo group, we promote mutual respect to other peoples'
      ideas and choices. We encourage friendly discussions and information
      sharing on issues pertaining to diet, health, animal rights, spirituality,
      etc. We believe that our memberships are mature and professional. We do
      not allow the use of inappropriate language and these should be reported to
      the Moderator.

      You can post announcements, important news or research affecting the
      community, or personal concerns relevant to the group's focus."

      Quoting Paris Harvey :

      >
      >
      >
      >
      > In response to the below SFVeg member, and out of respect for the writers
      > concerns, I offer my group bitebackvegan@yahoogroups.com for just such
      > dialogue and welcome it. While I agree with the below members concerns,
      > and I know that the bi laws of this list are to be "just vegetarian
      > events and AR issues pertaining to events locally", I do disagree that
      > this form of dialogue is "the complete opposite of the spirit of
      > vegetarianism". I in fact encourage more of the same from all vegetarians
      > and AR activists and frankly, would hope that we are all both!
      >
      > This is an immensely important topic and very welcome at BBVS...in my
      > opinion, it is part of the healing (from years of meat eating and
      > incorrect health propoganda stuffed down our throats, pardon the pun..)
      > for all of us...
      >
      > I have copied here the BBVS Group address in the C/C line for easy reply
      > if anyone wishes to continue. Just please delete the
      > SFVeg@yahoogroups.com before doing so.
      >
      > Above their screams,
      >
      > Paris-Group Moderator
      >
      > Bite Back Vegan Society
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > brocade2002 wrote:
      >
      > I'm a member of the SF Veg Society, so I subscribe to this list.
      >
      > Recently, there have been huge number of postings about the subject
      >
      > of violence. I'm a vegetarian because I don't like violence to
      >
      > animals. That point is negated if it's expressed in violence.
      >
      >
      >
      > At any rate, obviously other people have different points of view.
      >
      > I'd like to suggest that there be a separate list for those who want
      >
      > to discuss political issues. Keep this list for SF Vegetarian
      >
      > Society events.
      >
      >
      >
      > If you continue this diatribe and discussion, which I consider the
      >
      > complete opposite of the spirit of vegetarianism, I shall lose
      >
      > respect for the SF Veg Society and stop my support.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
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      > ---------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFVeg/
      >
      >
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >
      > SFVeg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Paris Harvey
      >
      > Bite Back Vegan Society
      >
      > 925 788 8296 (PST)
      >
      > Join bitebackvegan@yahoogroups.com for updates, calendars, articles
      >
      > If you love animals...check this out...http://tinyurl.com/2xkmc
      >
      > Now look at this...no frills site..
      > http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery.htm and keep looking! "but, I don't
      > want to look at that" you say?....but you must!
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      >
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFVeg/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > SFVeg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
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      >
      >
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      >
      >
      >
      >
      >





      Paris Harvey
      Bite Back Vegan Society
      925 788 8296 (PST)
      Join bitebackvegan@yahoogroups.com for updates, calendars, articles
      If you love animals...check this out...http://tinyurl.com/2xkmc
      Now look at this...no frills site.. http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery.htm and keep looking! "but, I don't want to look at that" you say?....but you must!











      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Doug Dyment
      I don t object to the occasional political posting/discussion on this group, though I prefer that it be primarily for event notices and the like. I do note
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 20 9:33 AM
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        I don't object to the occasional "political" posting/discussion on this
        group, though I prefer that it be primarily for event notices and the like.
        I do note with interest, though, that many of the recent political posters
        have taken to copying/quoting pages and pages of previous postings in each
        of their messages. I consider such behavior rude in the extreme (they don't
        have the time to edit their messages, but I am supposed to?), and
        immediately scroll past without reading them.

        I know many people who feel exactly the way I do about such egregious
        netiquette. Those who are attempting to sway the opinions of others should
        take note.

        ... Doug


        Days like these come along once in a lifetime.
      • Thea Langsam
        Hello all, I agree that it is important that there be an e-mail exchange where people can discuss political issues related to animal rights, such as the use of
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 20 10:15 AM
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          Hello all,
          I agree that it is important that there be an e-mail exchange where people can discuss political issues related to animal rights, such as the use of violence as part of activism. But I also believe that it is important that there be an e-mail exchange for people who do not want to take part in these discussions but do want to learn about / post veg events, such as dinners out, World Vegetarian Day, Peaceable Kingdom, etc. I am relatively new to the San Francisco Vegetarian Society, but my understanding (I may be wrong) is that this group / e-mail list has traditionally been more of the latter, less political type. If that is the case, and because we have now learned about bitebackvegan@yahoogroups.com, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea if we discontinued the more intense political discussions here and moved them to biteback. I'm not sure whether the SFVeg rules require this -- although to me, some of the e-mails have gone beyond "friendly" (e-mails often sound different than we
          mean them, I know) -- but whether the political discussions are technically allowed here, I think it would be useful for the vegetarian / animal rights community to ensure that both forums are available. Perhaps every few months, someone could post an e-mail here just letting folks on SFVeg know that there is the biteback option for people who want that type of discussion as well.
          Sincerely,
          Thea

          Matthew G Liebman <mliebman@...> wrote:
          According to the email I received when I joined this group, the SFVeg
          guidelines do not limit discussion to just group events or vegetarianism.
          They "encourage friendly discussions... pertaining to... animal rights."
          The issue of nonviolent direct action certainly fits within that rubric. I
          don't think anyone has been unfriendly or abrassive in their defense of
          their beliefs.

          The society also "promote[s] mutual respect to other peoples' ideas." While
          you are more than welcome to passionately disagree with direct action, I
          find it disrespectful to want to silence discourse and debate regarding
          animal rights strategies, simply because you find them unpalatable.

          If you are simply frustrated with the VOLUME of emails (which is certainly
          understandable), you can always change your settings in Yahoo Groups to
          recieve a daily digest. You will receive 1 email per day containing all of
          that day's posts. You won't lose out on any info, but will be able to skim
          or skip the discussions you don't care for.

          Below is the partial text of the "welcome" email for the SFVeg group. If I
          have misinterpreted it, perhaps the moderators might correct me.

          -Matthew

          "This yahoo group is a way to connect the friends, supporters and members
          of SFVS to the vegetarian community and to those interested on vegetarian
          issues and related causes.

          You can personalize this yahoo group to suit your personal requirements not
          to send or send you emails, or simply send you daily digest on your set
          frequency.

          As with any other yahoo group, we promote mutual respect to other peoples'
          ideas and choices. We encourage friendly discussions and information
          sharing on issues pertaining to diet, health, animal rights, spirituality,
          etc. We believe that our memberships are mature and professional. We do
          not allow the use of inappropriate language and these should be reported to
          the Moderator.

          You can post announcements, important news or research affecting the
          community, or personal concerns relevant to the group's focus."

          Quoting Paris Harvey <bitebackvegan@...>:

          >
          >
          >
          >
          > In response to the below SFVeg member, and out of respect for the writers
          > concerns, I offer my group bitebackvegan@yahoogroups.com for just such
          > dialogue and welcome it. While I agree with the below members concerns,
          > and I know that the bi laws of this list are to be "just vegetarian
          > events and AR issues pertaining to events locally", I do disagree that
          > this form of dialogue is "the complete opposite of the spirit of
          > vegetarianism". I in fact encourage more of the same from all vegetarians
          > and AR activists and frankly, would hope that we are all both!
          >
          > This is an immensely important topic and very welcome at BBVS...in my
          > opinion, it is part of the healing (from years of meat eating and
          > incorrect health propoganda stuffed down our throats, pardon the pun..)
          > for all of us...
          >
          > I have copied here the BBVS Group address in the C/C line for easy reply
          > if anyone wishes to continue. Just please delete the
          > SFVeg@yahoogroups.com before doing so.
          >
          > Above their screams,
          >
          > Paris-Group Moderator
          >
          > Bite Back Vegan Society
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > brocade2002 <SocialScientist@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm a member of the SF Veg Society, so I subscribe to this list.
          >
          > Recently, there have been huge number of postings about the subject
          >
          > of violence. I'm a vegetarian because I don't like violence to
          >
          > animals. That point is negated if it's expressed in violence.
          >
          >
          >
          > At any rate, obviously other people have different points of view.
          >
          > I'd like to suggest that there be a separate list for those who want
          >
          > to discuss political issues. Keep this list for SF Vegetarian
          >
          > Society events.
          >
          >
          >
          > If you continue this diatribe and discussion, which I consider the
          >
          > complete opposite of the spirit of vegetarianism, I shall lose
          >
          > respect for the SF Veg Society and stop my support.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFVeg/
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >
          > SFVeg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Paris Harvey
          >
          > Bite Back Vegan Society
          >
          > 925 788 8296 (PST)
          >
          > Join bitebackvegan@yahoogroups.com for updates, calendars, articles
          >
          > If you love animals...check this out...http://tinyurl.com/2xkmc
          >
          > Now look at this...no frills site..
          > http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery.htm and keep looking! "but, I don't
          > want to look at that" you say?....but you must!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          >
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          > To visit your group on the web, go to:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SFVeg/
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > SFVeg-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



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        • Pete
          I regret that one or two folks are displeased by the discussion that s been going on, especially as I m the one who started it. I did so because I believe
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 20 10:34 AM
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            I regret that one or two folks are displeased by the discussion that's been going on, especially as I'm the one who started it. I did so because I believe that the tactics that animal rights supporters choose will determine whether we win or lose the fight for vegetarianism and animal rights. Thus, it cuts right to the heart of the reason that so many of us are veggies. I understand that some of you disagree. That's OK.

            But please understand that the SF Veggie Society is not responsible for the opinions expressed on this listserve by individuals like myself. The Society operates the listserve as a bulletin board for members, who express their own opinions. I hope that nobody will hold the Society responsible for posts over which it has no control and with which it might not agree.

            Please also understand that posts to SFVeg have never been limited to events notices. SFVeg has always welcomed posts related to the interests of a diverse group of vegetarians and vegans. The way to deal with posts that are not of interest to you is to simply delete them.

            For those of you who might not know, the SF Vegetarian Society has a separate e-mail list limited to events and other special notices from the society. If you would prefer to be on that list, please notify jcadiz2002@... and I'm sure that JC will be pleased to assist you.





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