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6473Re: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant

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  • Adrian Maestas
    Sep 1, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Wow, thanks Rachel!

      Like I said, I was vegan for a few years, just didn't like the food that much, craved my comfort foods.

      Good discussion!

      --- On Tue, 8/31/10, turtlespace1 <rad97aggie@...> wrote:

      From: turtlespace1 <rad97aggie@...>
      Subject: Re: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant
      To: SFVeg@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 12:07 PM


      I really appreciate Adrian's honest opinion; it's not one you often hear on veg message boards.

      I respect people who openly acknowledge the suffering caused by their choices, but who decide that it's "worth it" to get whatever taste, convenience, nutrition, etc, that they get from those choices. At least these people are being up-front and honest.

      As an aside (and not directed at anyone here; I'm referring to a view I often see expressed in other places) ... what really annoys me is people who say that eating dairy and egg is OK because they are PRETENDING that animals don't suffer for the dairy and eggs. Like they think they are making a compassionate choice by eating dairy and eggs. Of course we all know that it's not a compassionate choice to consume the dairy and eggs readily available at any fast food restaurant or grocery store (the dairy and eggs most people are eating). (I make this distinction, rather than making a blanket statement, because I know that it's possible to keep chicken hens as pets and eat the unfertilized eggs without causing any harm; even the chickens like to eat their own unfertilized eggs; but most people don't have access to eggs from this source. Also, you could make butter and cheese from your wife's breast milk without causing any harm to anyone, but not many people have access to that either! LOL!)

      Basically, I respect someone like Adrian because he/she is owning up to truth and taking responsibility for it.

      Of course, Adrian, there are a lot of us who do our best on all fronts, in terms of trying to protect animals and the environment ... we try to MINIMIZE all sort of things ... driving, flying (flying is worse than driving!!!), use of disposables, buying products from sweatshops, supporting companies that pollute rivers, using toxic cleaning products in the home, etc etc etc, AND ... well, for me, going vegan is a big part of that philosophy of trying to minimize our environmental footprint as well as the suffering we cause in this world.

      I must admit, I've never been a picky eater, so it's really quite easy for me to go without this or that non-vegan thing such as a puffy pastry or a cheesy omelet. For me, it's easy to just eat something vegan instead. I love my vegan food, and yes, I would also the love the taste of non-vegan food (I used to eat it and enjoy it all the time, of course; I'm sure it still tastes the same!). But for me, it's not like the non-vegan food is so tasty that I need to insist on eating it, at the expense of the animals who would be suffering to make sure I can have it. Definitely not. I don't care if it's chocolate eclairs or puffy pastries ... to me, it's not worth it.

      But I know, a lot of people are trained to be foodies and to demand certain flavors; otherwise, they consider that they are being deprived of something good in life. The way I see it, people like Adrian (and honest meat eaters, the ones who aren't putting on blinders) have a different value system than I do. When people openly acknowledge how bad things are for animals, but they truly believe "it's worth it" .... well, there's nothing I can think of to argue with that. They've looked at the facts squarely and made their decision based on their own value system. It's just that their value system is different from mine.

      The thing I don't respect is when people hide from the truth, which is something Adrian is obviously not doing.

      My 2 cents for the collection hat. :)
      -Rachel D.
      San Francisco, CA

      --- In SFVeg@yahoogroups.com, philip gelb <phil@...> wrote:
      > are you going to give these things up or just postulating? curious.
      > phil
      > philip gelb
      > phil@...
      > http://philipgelb.com
      > http://philipgelb.blogspot.com/
      > On Aug 31, 2010, at 8:23 AM, Adrian Maestas wrote:
      > >
      > > I was vegan for a few years back in the mid 90's, but I like cheese
      > > and puff pastry.
      > > I know the animals are treated badly, but there are so many things
      > > in the world I will give up first before cheese. Like driving. And
      > > using paper products. patronizing companies that dump waste into the
      > > sea and freshwater rivers. Stuff like that.
      > >
      > > I'll give all that up before cheese. And pastries. that egg replacer
      > > stuff doesn't make the patsry puff up enough. I've tried all the egg
      > > substitutes for baking, and it just is not the same. creamers and
      > > the like are easy to replace now with a soy based one, but until
      > > they figure out how to make a souffle without eggs.....
      > >
      > > My $.02
      > >
      > >
      > > --- On Mon, 8/30/10, Mitch Cohen <redbeerd@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > From: Mitch Cohen <redbeerd@...>
      > > Subject: RE: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant
      > > To: sfveg@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 11:36 PM
      > >
      > >
      > > there are omnivores who are in the front lines fighting against
      > > factory-farming. their reasons & ultimate goals are clearly
      > > different than ours. however, there are more potential anti-factory-
      > > farming omnivores than there are vegans. so, if one's short-term
      > > goals include drastically reducing factory-farming, i suggest we
      > > consider the anti-factory-farming "sustainable-farming" omnivore
      > > movement, and its leading, "showcase" restaurants (chez panisse,
      > > greens, gather, encuentro) as allies in the fight against factory-
      > > farming.
      > >
      > >
      > > if enough consciousness & awareness can be raised to get more
      > > omnivores to consider avoiding factory-farmed products, then
      > > omnivores will have to make plant-based food a huger percentage of
      > > their diet (since there simply is NOT enough non-factory-farmed
      > > animal-based "food" available to be a big portion of their diet, and
      > > it's much more expensive).
      > >
      > > a message telling folks anything short of 100% vegan just turns off
      > > too many people. let others tell them to transition to non-factory-
      > > farmed "food". once omnivores are willing to make changes and
      > > listen, hopefully they'll be more willing to hear our message
      > >
      > > To: SFVeg@yahoogroups.com
      > > From: gsmith59@...
      > > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:52:05 -0700
      > > Subject: Re: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant
      > >
      > >
      > > It is for these reasons you state that I have never been there in
      > > the first
      > > place.
      > >
      > > I don't want to support a restaurant which glorifies the consumption
      > > of animal
      > > products as necessary for a good meal, be they from abused or from
      > > dead
      > > animals.
      > >
      > > When I transitioned from omnivore to a vegan diet the first thing I
      > > quit was
      > > dairy, and the second thing I quit was eggs. Only then did I say
      > > "what the
      > > heck" and went all the way to vegan.
      > >
      > > What might have made some sense 150 years ago in the days of small
      > > time Farmer
      > > MacDonald makes no ethical sense in the current era of cruel,
      > > mechanistic
      > > agribusiness.
      > >
      > > Greg
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > >
      > > >I was just at Green's two Sundays ago, because I had tickets to a
      > > piano
      > > >concert in the Cowell Theater that is two steps away from Green's.
      > > I'm a
      > > >vegan. 99% of the menu was full of eggs and dairy, particularly
      > > cheese.
      > > >
      > > > After seeing the two documentaries from Tribe of Heart, Peaceable
      > > >Kingdom and Peaceable Kingdom, the Journey Home, I see the egg and
      > > dairy
      > > >industry as being as cruel as the meat industry. Eggs and dairy both
      > > >involve
      > > >inhumane conditions and death. Living newborn male chicks are tossed
      > > >away
      > > >in heaps like garbage on egg farms. Battery cages are torture
      > > chambers.
      > > >
      > > >"Spent" hens are killed. Cows are kept pregnant all the time, suffer
      > > >from
      > > >mammary infections, are pumped full of drugs and can't move,
      > > because they
      > > >are tethered to the milk machines for life; their male offspring are
      > > >wrenched
      > > >from them at birth and become veal, sent to slaughter after a short
      > > life
      > > >of immobility.
      > > >
      > > > I am as repulsed at seeing "vegetarian" food as I am at a
      > > steakhouse.
      > > >
      > > >I realize I cannot go back to Green's again.
      > > >
      > > > Sincerely, Bonnie Knight, San Francisco
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >

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