6466RE: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant / step-by-step
- Sep 1 2:13 AM
after years of waving the flag and telling people about the environmental/health impacts of eat animals, plus raising the ethical issue, i realize that this works for a very small % of people- those who are already contemplating the issue and thus ready to make the leap.
for most others, my best weapon thus far is vegan cooking...not the slap your vegan burger on the grill and douse some ketchup between buns kinda cooking. but homemade lasagna with pasta made from scratch, risotto cooked to perfection, stuffed squash with quinoa etc etc. the kind of food that unsuspecting carnivores eat and appreciate, THEN find out there was no carcass in that meal. When i tell them this doesn't clog their arteries, zero cholesterol & low calories, then they get really interested (i live in italy and i tell you them italians are REALLY attached to their food).
people wont' change because they are not willing to give up their habits. you give them a wonderful alternative and unless they are seriously hardcore, they will change. it just takes time, patience and a lot of dinner invitations to carnivors.
as for rachel's detailed analysis a rapist/pedophile (thanks by the way for putting so much thought into it...:-) to me personally killing an animal whether a chick or a cow is a crime (thus my metaphore to rapist/pedophile). whether it is permissible by law or not. in my heart which loves all, it is not permissible.
slavery may have been legal, but doenst' make it right, does it?
the definition of right in my book is simply based on the Golden Rule. if i dont' want to be enslaved, then it's WRONG for me to enslave another. If i don't want to be killed, then it's wrong for me to kill another. it's as simple as that. so please, those lawyers out there, no need to tear this one to pieces.
i understand folks out there trying to lessen the killing by promoting grass fed beef i/o factory farm beef..ok, i get it. but for me personally it's just as wrong to kill a factory raised cow as it is to kill a grass fed cow(definition of wrong see above explanation). so in terms of karmic points one is more or less equal to another (ok, factory farm animals suffer a lot more so it's heavier). if this works, so be it....nevertheless, killing one life is still a murder- whether you are in iraq (where stoning is permitted for human beings), or in the USA.
thank you for all who have contributed to this conversation...so much more interesting than talking about which football team won...i'm grateful for your time.
--- On Tue, 8/31/10, Mitch Cohen <redbeerd@...> wrote:
From: Mitch Cohen <redbeerd@...>
Subject: RE: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant / step-by-step
Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2010, 9:25 AM
piano-teaching is a bad comparisonif you want to help as many animals as possible, one must reach omnivores who are turned off by the vegans who preach "nothing other than 100%-plant-based matters". if a vegan doesn't want to make that point (that "some" animal-eating is ok), then quietly allow others to make the point; and stand ready to educate people further after they've become open to change.once people are willing to open themselves to making very EXPENSIVE changes (yes, grass-fed costs much more than subsidized factory-farmed), they'll be open to hearing about more changes, such as:- tell government to end subsidies & water-giveaways to factory farming (that'll be a MAJOR deterence to meat-eaters!!)- increase the proportion of vegetables in your diet, since they are much more affordable, healthy & eco-friendly than meat- turn to broccoli & collards for calcium, rather than milk- eat more grains, nuts & beans for protein, rather than eggs & meat- keep increasing the proportion of plant-based foods in your diet: above 80%, 90%, 95%, 98%, 99%, ...
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 07:11:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant
i understand the "step by step" approach of weaning people off first from factory farming then to veganism. that is good if you want to learn to play the piano.
However, meat eating in my book is considered a crime against other beings. so asking people to eat only free range meat to start with is a bit like asking a pedophile/ rapist to only rape women (leave the kids alone), then eventually wean off raping women.
does that make sense?
to me no.
stop killing means stop killing. dairy/eggs is part of the killing chain. so they are implicated too.
i stopped going to Greens years ago because i could hardly find anything on the menu for me (a vegan). and the smell of stinking cheese made it an unpleasant experience for me.
there are others such as Loving Hut, Cafe Gratitude, Herbivore, and many other truly compassionate eateries worth of our dollars.
--- On Mon, 8/30/10, Greg Smith <gsmith59@...> wrote:
From: Greg Smith <gsmith59@...>
Subject: Re: [SFVS] Greens Restaurant
Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 9:52 PM
It is for these reasons you state that I have never been there in the first
I don't want to support a restaurant which glorifies the consumption of animal
products as necessary for a good meal, be they from abused or from dead
When I transitioned from omnivore to a vegan diet the first thing I quit was
dairy, and the second thing I quit was eggs. Only then did I say "what the
heck" and went all the way to vegan.
What might have made some sense 150 years ago in the days of small time Farmer
MacDonald makes no ethical sense in the current era of cruel, mechanistic
>I was just at Green's two Sundays ago, because I had tickets to a piano
>concert in the Cowell Theater that is two steps away from Green's. I'm a
>vegan. 99% of the menu was full of eggs and dairy, particularly cheese.
> After seeing the two documentaries from Tribe of Heart, Peaceable
>Kingdom and Peaceable Kingdom, the Journey Home, I see the egg and dairy
>industry as being as cruel as the meat industry. Eggs and dairy both
>inhumane conditions and death. Living newborn male chicks are tossed
>in heaps like garbage on egg farms. Battery cages are torture chambers.
>"Spent" hens are killed. Cows are kept pregnant all the time, suffer
>mammary infections, are pumped full of drugs and can't move, because they
>are tethered to the milk machines for life; their male offspring are
>from them at birth and become veal, sent to slaughter after a short life
> I am as repulsed at seeing "vegetarian" food as I am at a steakhouse.
>I realize I cannot go back to Green's again.
> Sincerely, Bonnie Knight, San Francisco
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