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Re: [SCA_India] Help please?

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  • Valerie J. Rose
    ... From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:33 PM Subject: Re: [SCA_India] Help please? ... Cate,
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 1, 2006
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <whitespirit@...>
      To: <SCA_India@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:33 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA_India] Help please?


      >
      > Vasco Da Gama sailed from Portugal to India in 1498.
      > That's usually the reference I use.
      > Good Luck,
      > Cate

      Cate,
      Thank you! That is a *great* one. And thanks for the good luck, I will
      need it. I get such stage fright I sometimes get lost in my own notes and
      stutter - very embaressing, and why I don't do many such talks. I have an
      hour and a half to fill, and will be showing some saris, and how to do the
      basic wrap with them for some of that time, so I am considering doing up
      some of the more complex info into a handout.

      Valerie J. Rose
      pooka@...
    • Valerie J. Rose
      ... From: Margaret Polson To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [SCA_India] Help please?
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 1, 2006
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Margaret Polson" <mlpolson@...>
        To: <SCA_India@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:37 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA_India] Help please?


        >>
        >> Vasco Da Gama sailed from Portugal to India in 1498.
        >> That's usually the reference I use.
        >
        > And as an interesting side note, one of his
        > translators was a Polish Jew, living in Gujarat (The
        > Portugues in India)
        >
        > Meenakshi

        Neat! Thanks for the info.:)

        Valerie J. Rose
        pooka@...
      • Valerie J. Rose
        ... From: bethlakshmi To: Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:27 PM Subject: [SCA_India] Re: Help please?
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 1, 2006
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "bethlakshmi" <bethlakshmi@...>
          To: <SCA_India@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 6:27 PM
          Subject: [SCA_India] Re: Help please?


          >
          >> > I believe at least one of the 14th-16th accounts does reference
          > saris
          >> > being worn in the Vijayagara Empire. I believe the reference is
          >> > vague at best - but in existence.
          >>
          >> 14th-16th? Century?
          >>
          >
          > Yep. Sorry.

          Thanks, and no problem.:)

          > Will try to dig up the Vijayanagara book that mentioned it. Sadly,
          > it's pretty tertiary - a summary of Vijayanagara material culture based
          > on traveler's account and saris... but there was some fairly
          > declarative quote in there and I don't yet have a reason to doubt it.

          Please do, if you can.:)

          > -Lakshmi

          Valerie J. Rose
          pooka@...
        • bethlakshmi
          ... I will ... notes and ... have an ... do the ... doing up ... Not sure if helps, or how much prep time you have... but I just took a presentation course.
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 1, 2006
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            --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie J. Rose" <pooka@...> wrote:

            > Cate,
            > Thank you! That is a *great* one. And thanks for the good luck,
            I will
            > need it. I get such stage fright I sometimes get lost in my own
            notes and
            > stutter - very embaressing, and why I don't do many such talks. I
            have an
            > hour and a half to fill, and will be showing some saris, and how to
            do the
            > basic wrap with them for some of that time, so I am considering
            doing up
            > some of the more complex info into a handout.
            >

            Not sure if helps, or how much prep time you have... but I just took
            a presentation course. Presentations are a big part of my job and I
            wanted to refine my skills, as pretty much everyone can do something
            to further polish presentation skills - it's an endless struggle,
            even for the pros.

            A couple things they suggested that have really helped me:
            - before you begin, take the time to find a good posture - shoulders
            back, straight back, feet shoulder width apart - that
            general 'command presence' look.

            - before beginning take a deep yoga breath - fully inflate the lungs
            breathing in through the nose, hold for a sec, slowly breath out
            through the mouth. This is very powerful breathing, and it serves to
            oxygenate the brain which relaxes you and makes the neurons run more
            smoothly. The long pause of breathing also naturally attracts
            attention, combined with the good posture, it will get most audiences
            to quiet down, even with out you saying anything.

            - pausing to check your notes is quite fine. If you have to take a
            peek at the notes, stop talking, read notes, compose thought and then
            speak. The pause *feels* excrutiatingly painful, but it is actually
            quite relaxing to the audience, and it gives you extra energy for
            reading and thinking out the next thing you want to say.

            One thing our teacher really hit on was that this stuff takes
            practice. Posture and pausing don't *feel* natural or comforable.
            But they go a long way to making you seem more confident. And like
            the song "whistle a happy tune" - if you seem more confident the
            support the audience gives you will in turn make you *feel* more
            confident.

            If you have time, I suggest running it at least 2-3 times, more like
            5-6 - in your own home, by yourself, if need be.

            Sorry if this is stuff you've already tried... I'd been teaching and
            presenting for years, usually about once a month, and these tips were
            new to me - so I figured I'd pass 'em along.

            -Lakshmi
          • Valerie J. Rose
            ... From: bethlakshmi To: Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 3:54 PM Subject: [SCA_India] Re: Help please?
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 3, 2006
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "bethlakshmi" <bethlakshmi@...>
              To: <SCA_India@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 3:54 PM
              Subject: [SCA_India] Re: Help please?


              Snip

              > Not sure if helps, or how much prep time you have... but I just took
              > a presentation course. Presentations are a big part of my job and I
              > wanted to refine my skills, as pretty much everyone can do something
              > to further polish presentation skills - it's an endless struggle,
              > even for the pros.

              The talk is scheduled for April 4th. I had a speech class in high scool,
              but that was a long time ago. Still some things I've remembered. Which is
              one reason I am so nervous...I can't do some of what I remember.
              >
              > A couple things they suggested that have really helped me:
              > - before you begin, take the time to find a good posture - shoulders
              > back, straight back, feet shoulder width apart - that
              > general 'command presence' look.

              This one I know...but it's hard to do when you are peering down at your
              notes all the time.:)

              > - before beginning take a deep yoga breath - fully inflate the lungs
              > breathing in through the nose, hold for a sec, slowly breath out
              > through the mouth. This is very powerful breathing, and it serves to
              > oxygenate the brain which relaxes you and makes the neurons run more
              > smoothly. The long pause of breathing also naturally attracts
              > attention, combined with the good posture, it will get most audiences
              > to quiet down, even with out you saying anything.

              Deep breathing...I do that from sheer terror <<grin>>.

              > - pausing to check your notes is quite fine. If you have to take a
              > peek at the notes, stop talking, read notes, compose thought and then
              > speak. The pause *feels* excrutiatingly painful, but it is actually
              > quite relaxing to the audience, and it gives you extra energy for
              > reading and thinking out the next thing you want to say.

              Yes...feels painful. It's ok though, then? Yeesh, that'l help.:)

              > One thing our teacher really hit on was that this stuff takes
              > practice. Posture and pausing don't *feel* natural or comforable.
              > But they go a long way to making you seem more confident. And like
              > the song "whistle a happy tune" - if you seem more confident the
              > support the audience gives you will in turn make you *feel* more
              > confident.

              Practice...I plan on using my brother as a guinea pig for a dry run or
              two...however much he will tolerate. But, I will be showing some saris too,
              which we can't simulate here at home as we have a tiny house and all the
              maneuvering to get them out and visable would be three times what it will in
              the room I am doing the talk in at the library...so I am just going to have
              to guess at that.

              > If you have time, I suggest running it at least 2-3 times, more like
              > 5-6 - in your own home, by yourself, if need be.

              See above.:) Jim may put up with 2...more than that no. And I need a
              practice audience.:)

              > Sorry if this is stuff you've already tried... I'd been teaching and
              > presenting for years, usually about once a month, and these tips were
              > new to me - so I figured I'd pass 'em along.

              Please don't be sorry! And thank you, so much, for the caring and the
              help...I really appreciate it.:) Could I add your webpage to my handout, and
              tell people they can ask you questions? I already have a note to send them
              to this mailing list.

              > -Lakshmi
            • bethlakshmi
              ... at your ... Do you have the option to use a podium? Or a table? One thing we did was have large type notes that lay on a regular table. That kept them
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 3, 2006
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                > This one I know...but it's hard to do when you are peering down
                at your
                > notes all the time.:)
                >
                Do you have the option to use a podium? Or a table?

                One thing we did was have large type notes that lay on a regular
                table. That kept them out of your hand. For a one hour
                presentation, you can still get away with only 2-3 pages of outline.

                We'd angle ourselves to the side of the table, so the table was to
                our left or right, rather than being directly in front of us. It
                keeps you looking out, not down.


                > Deep breathing...I do that from sheer terror <<grin>>.
                >
                Well... yes. But the idea is to breathe deeply before the terror.
                Deeply and consciously, as when meditating. The shallow breathing of
                terror is what you're looking to avoid.

                >
                > Yes...feels painful. It's ok though, then? Yeesh, that'l help.:)
                >
                Yep. Actually my boyfriend (who is one of the best presenters I
                know), does this all the time. On the one hand it makes me CRAZY -
                just spit it out! But on the other hand, I'm hanging on his every
                word. Much more so than if he filled up the space
                with "Umm...", "Ahh..." or "Ya know...".


                > > If you have time, I suggest running it at least 2-3 times, more
                like
                > > 5-6 - in your own home, by yourself, if need be.
                >
                > See above.:) Jim may put up with 2...more than that no. And I
                need a
                > practice audience.:)

                Or by yourself. A little by one's self time can be really good, as
                then you know you aren't wasting *anyone's* time and you can go back
                and try again and again and again. You don't get the energy you do
                from a live person, or the feedback, but you can often iron out
                wrinkles and worry less about pausing.

                > Please don't be sorry! And thank you, so much, for the caring
                and the
                > help...I really appreciate it.:) Could I add your webpage to my
                handout, and
                > tell people they can ask you questions? I already have a note to
                send them
                > to this mailing list.
                >

                Sure!

                My full info is:

                Mistress Lakshmi Amman
                citizen of the Barony of Carolingia in the East Kingdom
                email: bethlakshmi (at) gmail (dot) com


                -Lakshmi
              • Valerie J. Rose
                ... From: bethlakshmi To: Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: [SCA_India] Re: Help please? SNIP
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 4, 2006
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                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "bethlakshmi" <bethlakshmi@...>
                  To: <SCA_India@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 5:21 PM
                  Subject: [SCA_India] Re: Help please?


                  SNIP

                  > Do you have the option to use a podium? Or a table?

                  No podium, but yes a table. I will have a display of saris on the table,
                  and a small cloting rack with other, skirts, and some cholis (some make do
                  ones like snug t-shirts) on it so I can pull them out to show. But I have
                  also had a head injury in the past, and have concentration problems and find
                  it hard to memorize things. So, some new stuff I learned recently when doing
                  research on the web, or from Chantal's book - which just arrived today,
                  yippee! - I will *have* to *read* off my notes.

                  > One thing we did was have large type notes that lay on a regular
                  > table. That kept them out of your hand. For a one hour
                  > presentation, you can still get away with only 2-3 pages of outline.

                  I'd have to lay the notes on top of the saris. Wouldn't hurt them,
                  though. And only 2-3 pages? Eek! Cutting down again.

                  > We'd angle ourselves to the side of the table, so the table was to
                  > our left or right, rather than being directly in front of us. It
                  > keeps you looking out, not down.

                  Ah. So stand at one end, not behind.

                  SNIP

                  > Well... yes. But the idea is to breathe deeply before the terror.
                  > Deeply and consciously, as when meditating. The shallow breathing of
                  > terror is what you're looking to avoid.

                  I will try, but make no guarantees <<smile>>. I am always scared when
                  having to do something like this.

                  SNIP

                  > Yep. Actually my boyfriend (who is one of the best presenters I
                  > know), does this all the time. On the one hand it makes me CRAZY -
                  > just spit it out! But on the other hand, I'm hanging on his every
                  > word. Much more so than if he filled up the space
                  > with "Umm...", "Ahh..." or "Ya know...".

                  I do have problems with those "Ahhs", etc. Pausing is better, right.:)

                  SNIP

                  > Or by yourself. A little by one's self time can be really good, as
                  > then you know you aren't wasting *anyone's* time and you can go back
                  > and try again and again and again. You don't get the energy you do
                  > from a live person, or the feedback, but you can often iron out
                  > wrinkles and worry less about pausing.

                  Sounds...embarrassing and awkward <<sigh>>. Oh well, I'll give it a
                  shot. But since I can and will add lib the stuff I know, and I rattle along
                  when I get scared or embaressed, it'l be hard to make it the same time
                  amount each time <<embaressed look>>.

                  SNIP

                  > Sure!
                  >
                  > My full info is:
                  >
                  > Mistress Lakshmi Amman
                  > citizen of the Barony of Carolingia in the East Kingdom
                  > email: bethlakshmi (at) gmail (dot) com

                  Thank you!:) One more question from me? I have read, both online and now
                  in Chantal's book (which concentration problems from the head injury make it
                  hard to just *read* it through), about knotting the sari around the waist
                  instead of using a petticoat. How is that done, exactly? One end is surely
                  the top corner of the end opposite from the pallu, the one you would tuck
                  into the waistband of the skirt. What do you use for the *other* piece? The
                  lower end corner? This seems to be very awkward as it makes the short end
                  tied around the waist and then wrapping the rest around over that is weird
                  looking. Drape the piece down and *then* start around? Or do you just grab a
                  bit of the upper long side, and tie it there? It's hard to explain what I
                  mean, I hope you get it. <<huge sigh>>. Thanks for any help.:)

                  > -Lakshmi

                  Valerie J. Rose
                  pooka@...
                • bethlakshmi
                  ... For things where phrasing is really specific, that s no big deal - reading practice is the same as regular practice, with a lot of focus on phrasing so
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 6, 2006
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                    --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "Valerie J. Rose" <pooka@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I will *have* to *read* off my notes.
                    >

                    For things where phrasing is really specific, that's no big deal -
                    reading practice is the same as regular practice, with a lot of focus
                    on phrasing so your written words make sense to the audience.

                    >
                    > I'd have to lay the notes on top of the saris. Wouldn't hurt
                    them,
                    > though. And only 2-3 pages? Eek! Cutting down again.
                    >

                    Depends - if your material is a lot of reading - the metric may not
                    work the same. This metric is for the cases where you will be
                    delivering material that you, yourself are adding value to. For
                    example - if you talked about nivi sari wrapping, you would have a
                    lot of personal experience to add to each step. This wouldn't be
                    stuff you need to memorize or write down - it's part of you, and
                    there's no "wrong" thing to say.

                    For the SCA, specifically, this stuff is invaluable. Many people
                    have the books, or can get the books - the real value in sitting
                    through a lecture or class is hearing the tidbits that the lecturer
                    has figured out through trial and error, that no book would ever
                    write down.

                    > I do have problems with those "Ahhs", etc. Pausing is better,
                    right.:)
                    >

                    Me too. My favorites are "you know..." - no, of course they don't
                    know... and "theoretically".

                    > Sounds...embarrassing and awkward <<sigh>>.

                    Well... yes. You'll feel like a complete goober. But - the
                    advantage is, you'll feel like a complete goober all by yourself. No
                    one is there to witness it. And if you can present to an audience
                    that is so non-responsive that they don't even exist - you can
                    present to *anyone* who is actually living and breathing in your
                    direction.

                    > Oh well, I'll give it a
                    > shot. But since I can and will add lib the stuff I know, and I
                    rattle along
                    > when I get scared or embaressed, it'l be hard to make it the same
                    time
                    > amount each time <<embaressed look>>.
                    >

                    Happily - if you rattle along too fast - the audience probably will
                    slow you down with questions, afterwards. Questions are a beautiful
                    time filler for SCA audiences - most SCAdians really love to natter
                    along, so they'll often ask questions for a good long time unless
                    strongly moderated.


                    > Thank you!:) One more question from me? I have read, both
                    online and now
                    > in Chantal's book (which concentration problems from the head
                    injury make it
                    > hard to just *read* it through), about knotting the sari around the
                    waist
                    > instead of using a petticoat. How is that done, exactly? One end is
                    surely
                    > the top corner of the end opposite from the pallu, the one you
                    would tuck
                    > into the waistband of the skirt. What do you use for the *other*
                    piece?

                    A part of the top edge, something approximately your waistline plus 4-
                    6 inches. You measure from the corner around your waist, and then
                    pull a section of the upper corner to form a tie. Just grab the
                    point you want to make a tie from in one hand, and smooth down the
                    rest of the edge, so you have a little tab.

                    http://www.pir.net/~beth/Saris/Fishtail/DSCN0344.JPG

                    is me doing this with two upper corners for the fishtail sari waist.

                    The border you will use will be part of the "long edge" - aka the
                    selvedge. That way the sari hangs just as if you'd tucked it into a
                    petticoat.

                    > Or do you just grab a
                    > bit of the upper long side, and tie it there?

                    Yes - the upper long edge.

                    Chantal also lists several interesting ways to make the closure of
                    these two edges. Folding and rolling them in various ways. I admit,
                    I suck at these, and never get them to work right. I just do a
                    square knot - tie the right end over the left end, then ties the left
                    end over the right end.

                    http://www.goals.com/vyc/knots/square.htm

                    Another thing that dancers sometimes do - just tie a string around
                    your waist. It works just like a petticoat, w/out the actual
                    fabric. Just tuck into the string.

                    -Lakshmi
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