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Newbie with a question

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  • theheronchaser
    Good afternoon! I am new to this site and Indian/Middle Eastern/Asian personas in general. I have some basic instruction but am very slowly trying to add to
    Message 1 of 4 , May 2, 2013
      Good afternoon!
      I am new to this site and Indian/Middle Eastern/Asian personas in general. I have some basic instruction but am very slowly trying to add to it.

      But first, I am Sorcha (sometimes known as the Heron Chaser), currently hailing from the Barony of Iron Mountain, and gladly compelled into this subject by my consort the Honorable Lord Khalil Ibn Abd Al Rahman. I've been informed that our period is 14th c India. He may have some more specifics but that's the simplified consort version at least.

      The first question on my mind concerns a mention of 88 pieces of jewelry that some women wore. I don't know who or for why and am thus looking up more info on it. Any information, directions, links or search words would be helpful.

      Thank you in advance for your assistance. I look forward to more thoroughly exploring this site and getting to know you guys!

      The Heron Chaser
    • Andi Houston
      Heron Chaser, I just looked and realized no one has answered your question. I ve never heard of 88 pieces of jewelry, that would be an awful lot. Maybe if you
      Message 2 of 4 , May 30, 2013
        Heron Chaser,

        I just looked and realized no one has answered your question. I've never heard of 88 pieces of jewelry, that would be an awful lot. Maybe if you count each bangle bracelet separately?

        Definitely check out the photo archive. I *think* we have some 14th century stuff on there. Do you know where in India in the 14th century?

        Tell Khalil I said hello!

        Madhavi
        Trimaris

        --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "theheronchaser" <wingspan900@...> wrote:
        >
        > Good afternoon!
        > I am new to this site and Indian/Middle Eastern/Asian personas in general. I have some basic instruction but am very slowly trying to add to it.
        >
        > But first, I am Sorcha (sometimes known as the Heron Chaser), currently hailing from the Barony of Iron Mountain, and gladly compelled into this subject by my consort the Honorable Lord Khalil Ibn Abd Al Rahman. I've been informed that our period is 14th c India. He may have some more specifics but that's the simplified consort version at least.
        >
        > The first question on my mind concerns a mention of 88 pieces of jewelry that some women wore. I don't know who or for why and am thus looking up more info on it. Any information, directions, links or search words would be helpful.
        >
        > Thank you in advance for your assistance. I look forward to more thoroughly exploring this site and getting to know you guys!
        >
        > The Heron Chaser
        >
      • bethlakshmibetty
        Hi Sorcha! As Madhavi said! I m sorry we let you slip by with no response! 14th century is a pretty turbulent time, so if your consort has a specific region
        Message 3 of 4 , May 30, 2013
          Hi Sorcha!

          As Madhavi said! I'm sorry we let you slip by with no response!

          14th century is a pretty turbulent time, so if your consort has a specific region in mind - or just North vs. South - it would be very helpful From his name, I'd guess pre-Mughal (it seems Islamic derived), but don't want to assume.

          All through time, Indian texts take great delight in counting things. The 108 karanas, the 4 sacred texts - and jewelry is a particular favorite. The best part is - the numbers vary, so there's changes from time to time.

          Your absolute best bet is to find the text that this is coming from - often the text will list all the items it has in mind, and even if the names are completely strange, we can help with digging up some translations. The other good bet is that from time to time, you'll find artistic depictions where they make sure all X number of whatever item are displayed.

          I'll say - I haven't heard of the 88 items, I know that the Kama Sutra has a "you're never fully dressed without..." list (the solah shringar?), but that's a different era and it's much fewer than 88 items.

          Pretty common across most eras, but varying in style, size, and overall look, are:

          - earrings
          - necklaces
          - bangles
          - anklets
          - hair ornaments - very changeable over era - there's lots of great ways to attach stuff to your head! :)
          - rings
          - belts/girdles
          - arm bands

          Treatise authors are not above getting sneaky - so I wouldn't be surprised if a pair of anything counted as 2.

          -Lakshmi






          --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "Andi Houston" <jimandandi@...> wrote:
          >
          > Heron Chaser,
          >
          > I just looked and realized no one has answered your question. I've never heard of 88 pieces of jewelry, that would be an awful lot. Maybe if you count each bangle bracelet separately?
          >
          > Definitely check out the photo archive. I *think* we have some 14th century stuff on there. Do you know where in India in the 14th century?
          >
          > Tell Khalil I said hello!
          >
          > Madhavi
          > Trimaris
          >
          > --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "theheronchaser" <wingspan900@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Good afternoon!
          > > I am new to this site and Indian/Middle Eastern/Asian personas in general. I have some basic instruction but am very slowly trying to add to it.
          > >
          > > But first, I am Sorcha (sometimes known as the Heron Chaser), currently hailing from the Barony of Iron Mountain, and gladly compelled into this subject by my consort the Honorable Lord Khalil Ibn Abd Al Rahman. I've been informed that our period is 14th c India. He may have some more specifics but that's the simplified consort version at least.
          > >
          > > The first question on my mind concerns a mention of 88 pieces of jewelry that some women wore. I don't know who or for why and am thus looking up more info on it. Any information, directions, links or search words would be helpful.
          > >
          > > Thank you in advance for your assistance. I look forward to more thoroughly exploring this site and getting to know you guys!
          > >
          > > The Heron Chaser
          > >
          >
        • Lalitadasa
          Wow, can t believe I missed this either. Over all, I agree with Lakshmi.  The Danilou translation of the Kamasutra lists 4 types of jewelry; avedhya for
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 5, 2013
            Wow, can't believe I missed this either. Over all, I agree with Lakshmi. 

            The Danilou translation of the Kamasutra lists 4 types of jewelry; avedhya for piercings such as earrings, nibandhaniya which is attached by bands such as arm bands and belts, prakshepya which are slipped on such as rings and bracelets or anklets, finally the aropya which are worn around the neck (pg 63 the Complete Kamasutra by Again Danielou).

            The Kamasutra of Vatsyanya by Wendy Doniger and Sudhir Kakar has a more complete list but my copy is in Florida.

            In Courtly Culture and Political Life in Early Medieval India by Daud Ali there is a much more extensive list of jewelry with demarcation as to which gender wears what. Men wear crowns, earrings, necklaces of many lengths, finger rings, forearm bands, bracelets, arm bands, breast ornaments and waist ornaments. Women wore various headresses, tilak on the brow or cheek, earrings, necklaces, breast ornaments, arm bands, finger rings, belts, anklets and toe rings. (pg 165)

            Both sources list the use of flowers, perfume, cosmetics and body paint. Sorry Ghazala, glitter is not mentioned.

            For more info on Indian jewelry I highly recommend The Body Adorned by Vidya Dehejia.

            Hope that helps :-)

            Lalitadasa


            From my Android phone on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network.



            -------- Original message --------
            Subject: [SCA_India] Re: Newbie with a question
            From: bethlakshmibetty <bethlakshmi@...>
            To: SCA_India@yahoogroups.com
            CC:


             

            Hi Sorcha!

            As Madhavi said! I'm sorry we let you slip by with no response!

            14th century is a pretty turbulent time, so if your consort has a specific region in mind - or just North vs. South - it would be very helpful From his name, I'd guess pre-Mughal (it seems Islamic derived), but don't want to assume.

            All through time, Indian texts take great delight in counting things. The 108 karanas, the 4 sacred texts - and jewelry is a particular favorite. The best part is - the numbers vary, so there's changes from time to time.

            Your absolute best bet is to find the text that this is coming from - often the text will list all the items it has in mind, and even if the names are completely strange, we can help with digging up some translations. The other good bet is that from time to time, you'll find artistic depictions where they make sure all X number of whatever item are displayed.

            I'll say - I haven't heard of the 88 items, I know that the Kama Sutra has a "you're never fully dressed without..." list (the solah shringar?), but that's a different era and it's much fewer than 88 items.

            Pretty common across most eras, but varying in style, size, and overall look, are:

            - earrings
            - necklaces
            - bangles
            - anklets
            - hair ornaments - very changeable over era - there's lots of great ways to attach stuff to your head! :)
            - rings
            - belts/girdles
            - arm bands

            Treatise authors are not above getting sneaky - so I wouldn't be surprised if a pair of anything counted as 2.

            -Lakshmi

            --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "Andi Houston" <jimandandi@...> wrote:
            >
            > Heron Chaser,
            >
            > I just looked and realized no one has answered your question. I've never heard of 88 pieces of jewelry, that would be an awful lot. Maybe if you count each bangle bracelet separately?
            >
            > Definitely check out the photo archive. I *think* we have some 14th century stuff on there. Do you know where in India in the 14th century?
            >
            > Tell Khalil I said hello!
            >
            > Madhavi
            > Trimaris
            >
            > --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "theheronchaser" <wingspan900@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Good afternoon!
            > > I am new to this site and Indian/Middle Eastern/Asian personas in general. I have some basic instruction but am very slowly trying to add to it.
            > >
            > > But first, I am Sorcha (sometimes known as the Heron Chaser), currently hailing from the Barony of Iron Mountain, and gladly compelled into this subject by my consort the Honorable Lord Khalil Ibn Abd Al Rahman. I've been informed that our period is 14th c India. He may have some more specifics but that's the simplified consort version at least.
            > >
            > > The first question on my mind concerns a mention of 88 pieces of jewelry that some women wore. I don't know who or for why and am thus looking up more info on it. Any information, directions, links or search words would be helpful.
            > >
            > > Thank you in advance for your assistance. I look forward to more thoroughly exploring this site and getting to know you guys!
            > >
            > > The Heron Chaser
            > >
            >

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