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  • HL Bebhinn O'Siodhachain
    Hello everyone, my name is Bebhinn O Siodhachain and I have been quietly lurking for a couple of weeks to see what your content was like.  You guys are
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 31, 2009
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      Hello everyone, my name is Bebhinn O'Siodhachain and I have been quietly lurking for a couple of weeks to see what your content was like.  You guys are amazing!!! 
       
      I know, I know.... what is an Irish Celt doing on an Indian list?  I have been recreating 16th century Mughal India during Emperor Akbar's reign for about 3 years now.  I am only 1 of 2 full time Mughal personas in Trimaris.  When I first started in the SCA 14 years ago I chose my name and have achieved several awards since that time so I didn't change my name when I "went Mughal" :>
       
      I have explained myself away through Elizabethan references to the Mughal Court and the report of White Mughals.  I also happen to be married to an English Elizabethan gentleman so it helps.  I just found this list and am ecstatic! 
       
      I like to dance, cook, sculpt, illuminate, and sew in the Mughal style.  I am so glad I found you guys because I am about to embark on a new mission and need all of the help I can get.  For the AS 50 challenge that has been issued I would like to recreate the folios of the Hamzanama.  I have a great book called "The Adventures of Hamza" that illustrates not only the folios, but the creation of the manuscript with the 5 layers of cloth and paper and the picture on the front and the writing on the back.  The only thing I cannot locate is the writing on the back.  So I come to you seeking assistance.
       
      Does anyone know what the script is?  Is it N'astaliq?  Does anyone know where I can obtain pictures and translations of the stories on the back?  I have been emailing the museums that have the originals to see if I can obtain pictures or scans of the back sides, but I need to know what the story is also.  I have not heard back from the museums yet.  Can anyone help me?? 
       
      Thank you so much for this great Yahoo group.  I am so happy to have finally met such resourceful people with the same interests as me.
       
      HL Bebhinn
      Amanda
    • Jim and Andi
      Bebhinn, There are more Indians in Trimaris! I am in An Crosaire, Lalita is far South near West Palm, and there s another lady in Orlando. I don t know
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 1, 2009
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        Bebhinn,

        There are more Indians in Trimaris!

        I am in An Crosaire, Lalita is far South near West Palm, and there's another lady in Orlando.

        I don't know anything about calligraphy and illumination, but I'd love to meet you and chat. Contact me off-list and let me know what your next event will be!

        Madhavi
        An Crosaire, Trimaris

        --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, HL Bebhinn O'Siodhachain <hlbebhinn@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello everyone, my name is Bebhinn O'Siodhachain and I have been quietly lurking for a couple of weeks to see what your content was like.  You guys are amazing!!! 
        >  
        > I know, I know.... what is an Irish Celt doing on an Indian list?  I have been recreating 16th century Mughal India during Emperor Akbar's reign for about 3 years now.  I am only 1 of 2 full time Mughal personas in Trimaris.  When I first started in the SCA 14 years ago I chose my name and have achieved several awards since that time so I didn't change my name when I "went Mughal" :>
        >  
        > I have explained myself away through Elizabethan references to the Mughal Court and the report of White Mughals.  I also happen to be married to an English Elizabethan gentleman so it helps.  I just found this list and am ecstatic! 
        >  
        > I like to dance, cook, sculpt, illuminate, and sew in the Mughal style.  I am so glad I found you guys because I am about to embark on a new mission and need all of the help I can get.  For the AS 50 challenge that has been issued I would like to recreate the folios of the Hamzanama.  I have a great book called "The Adventures of Hamza" that illustrates not only the folios, but the creation of the manuscript with the 5 layers of cloth and paper and the picture on the front and the writing on the back.  The only thing I cannot locate is the writing on the back.  So I come to you seeking assistance.
        >  
        > Does anyone know what the script is?  Is it N'astaliq?  Does anyone know where I can obtain pictures and translations of the stories on the back?  I have been emailing the museums that have the originals to see if I can obtain pictures or scans of the back sides, but I need to know what the story is also.  I have not heard back from the museums yet.  Can anyone help me?? 
        >  
        > Thank you so much for this great Yahoo group.  I am so happy to have finally met such resourceful people with the same interests as me.
        >  
        > HL Bebhinn
        > Amanda
        >
      • Amanda Esposito
        So glad to hear. I will be at Coronation Labor Day weekend. Please email me offlist if you would like hlbebhinn@yahoo.com. Thanks. HL Bebhinn Amanda
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 1, 2009
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          So glad to hear. I will be at Coronation Labor Day weekend. Please email me offlist if you would like hlbebhinn@.... Thanks.

          HL Bebhinn
          Amanda

          --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, "Jim and Andi" <jimandandi@...> wrote:
          >
          > Bebhinn,
          >
          > There are more Indians in Trimaris!
          >
          > I am in An Crosaire, Lalita is far South near West Palm, and there's another lady in Orlando.
          >
          > I don't know anything about calligraphy and illumination, but I'd love to meet you and chat. Contact me off-list and let me know what your next event will be!
          >
          > Madhavi
          > An Crosaire, Trimaris
          >
          > --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, HL Bebhinn O'Siodhachain <hlbebhinn@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello everyone, my name is Bebhinn O'Siodhachain and I have been quietly lurking for a couple of weeks to see what your content was like.  You guys are amazing!!! 
          > >  
          > > I know, I know.... what is an Irish Celt doing on an Indian list?  I have been recreating 16th century Mughal India during Emperor Akbar's reign for about 3 years now.  I am only 1 of 2 full time Mughal personas in Trimaris.  When I first started in the SCA 14 years ago I chose my name and have achieved several awards since that time so I didn't change my name when I "went Mughal" :>
          > >  
          > > I have explained myself away through Elizabethan references to the Mughal Court and the report of White Mughals.  I also happen to be married to an English Elizabethan gentleman so it helps.  I just found this list and am ecstatic! 
          > >  
          > > I like to dance, cook, sculpt, illuminate, and sew in the Mughal style.  I am so glad I found you guys because I am about to embark on a new mission and need all of the help I can get.  For the AS 50 challenge that has been issued I would like to recreate the folios of the Hamzanama.  I have a great book called "The Adventures of Hamza" that illustrates not only the folios, but the creation of the manuscript with the 5 layers of cloth and paper and the picture on the front and the writing on the back.  The only thing I cannot locate is the writing on the back.  So I come to you seeking assistance.
          > >  
          > > Does anyone know what the script is?  Is it N'astaliq?  Does anyone know where I can obtain pictures and translations of the stories on the back?  I have been emailing the museums that have the originals to see if I can obtain pictures or scans of the back sides, but I need to know what the story is also.  I have not heard back from the museums yet.  Can anyone help me?? 
          > >  
          > > Thank you so much for this great Yahoo group.  I am so happy to have finally met such resourceful people with the same interests as me.
          > >  
          > > HL Bebhinn
          > > Amanda
          > >
          >
        • Margaret Polson
            I like to dance, cook, sculpt, illuminate, and sew in the Mughal style.  I am so glad I found you guys because I am about to embark on a new mission and
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 2, 2009
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            I like to dance, cook, sculpt, illuminate, and sew in the Mughal style.  I am so glad I found you guys because I am about to embark on a new mission and need all of the help I can get.  For the AS 50 challenge that has been issued I would like to recreate the folios of the Hamzanama.  I have a great book called "The Adventures of Hamza" that illustrates not only the folios, but the creation of the manuscript with the 5 layers of cloth and paper and the picture on the front and the writing on the back.  The only thing I cannot locate is the writing on the back.  So I come to you seeking assistance.
             
            Does anyone know what the script is?  Is it N'astaliq?  Does anyone know where I can obtain pictures and translations of the stories on the back?  I have been emailing the museums that have the originals to see if I can obtain pictures or scans of the back sides, but I need to know what the story is also.  I have not heard back from the museums yet.  Can anyone help me?? 

            ******
             
            Welcome to the list! I can certainly understand not changing names, it can be quite difficult if you are well known.

            I hope you are only planing on doing a couple of them! The whole book to a whole set of artist years!

            The end of the book has translations for all of the folios in the book, they start on page 288.

            I don't think I have seen a picture of the writing on the back (other than the ones in the drawings of how it was put together, but those are of course reversed) ,since it is so unadorned. The book says it is Persian and was made for the court, so if you researched the court script of Akbar's court, that would be my best guess.

            Another source to try to contact would be Wheeeler M. Thackston, since he did the translations of the folios for the book.


            I would guess that he has copies of all of them that he used to do his translations with. Of course whatever deal he had with the owners of said folios may not allow him to give them to you, but he may know the ones most likely to give you access.

            One comment on contacting museums and scholars, I tend to not mention the SCA or re-enacting etc in my early contacts. From what I have heard (both from the academic side and from other SCA people who have made contact with them) often they tend to write off re-enactors etc.

            This maybe less true on the Indian area, but I had a long conversation with a Tudor scholar who tell horror stories of various re-enactors telling him "no this is how it was!" and repeating any number of SCA "truths" and completely refusing to list to the scholar tell them about this or that actual piece of evidence from period.

            Others experience may vary, but I tend to find that establishing some sort of communication first and then only later mentioning (if it comes up) that I am involved in the SCA works much better.

            Meenakshi
          • bethlakshmi
            ... I second this -- I have heard similar horror stories from people who were the unfortunate *second* SCAdian to reach academia after a first SCAdian had
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 3, 2009
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              --- In SCA_India@yahoogroups.com, Margaret Polson <mlpolson@...> wrote:
              >
              > One comment on contacting museums and scholars, I tend to not mention the SCA or re-enacting etc in my early contacts. From what I have heard (both from the academic side and from other SCA people who have made contact with them) often they tend to write off re-enactors etc.
              >
              > This maybe less true on the Indian area, but I had a long conversation with a Tudor scholar who tell horror stories of various re-enactors telling him "no this is how it was!" and repeating any number of SCA "truths" and completely refusing to list to the scholar tell them about this or that actual piece of evidence from period.
              >
              > Others experience may vary, but I tend to find that establishing some sort of communication first and then only later mentioning (if it comes up) that I am involved in the SCA works much better.
              >
              > Meenakshi
              >


              I second this -- I have heard similar horror stories from people who were the unfortunate *second* SCAdian to reach academia after a first SCAdian had spoiled their impression of us.

              My tact has always been:
              - start with cautious honesty - "I am an amateur scholar of the <insert artistic era here>. I work with a non-profit educational group of fellow amateur historians, where I teach classes and write papers about this topic. I'm particiularly interested in... (details about what they can do for me)."

              - once and a while I'm asked for my actual credentials. I usually provide my actual academic creds (which are all from technical institutes with barely a whiff of liberal arts), and mention my writing, publications and web sites. I often skip anything related specifically to SCA, in particular I avoid any mention of SCA rank. More and more, I do cite my teacher, as she has some level of academic cred.

              - I try extra hard to listen to what they say and ask questions of anyone who takes the time to help me navigate the backrooms of academia. I ask alot - "why do you think that is true?" - since it gives a good idea of where they are coming from.

              - I make my own decisions later. I've gotten lucky that *some* of the people I've met are hands on researchers who also are interested in recreating the thing. For example, Rosemary Crill was absolutely awesome at taking a stab at the "how would you do that if you were a crazy woman with a block printing workshop in her basement?" questions. But sometimes the art researcher is an art expert who doesn't get the mechanics of recreation -- for example, the wonderful Sackler people had no dance experience, and so didn't help much with conjectures of what dance moves looked like on real people. Even so... sometimes they can pinpoint classic art conventions that are helpful to know.

              - Usually if it's obvious the researcher is out of their depth on my particular interest, I guide the discussion to something they can tell me about, figuring no knowledge is ever wasted and it's better to hear loads about something I'm only vaguely interested in than lots of random guesses that aren't necessarily accurate.

              - If it's clear that the researcher/host is open minded to historical recreation as research - then I open up more about how I actually want to try to do something. More and more museum professionals are starting to see the value of this... if I can bring it up in a non-threatening, willing-to-admit-I'm-wrong sort of way.

              I haven't yet met someone who was close minded to *all* forms of historical recreation... but most professionals get antsy about having the amateur tell them how they *should* be doing their jobs. Which makes sense... I feel the same about my own job!

              Often at the very tail end of the session, they will ask me (with some appreciation for me being slightly clever), what that historical recreation organization is... That's usually when I'll open up and tell them, in the hopes that I've left a good impression.

              -Lakshmi
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