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Ghazels and Homophones and Refrains

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  • Lisa Harmon
    Does anyone know if the structure of ghazels allow for the use of homophones in the refrain? I don t know if the original languages even have them to answer
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 25, 2007
      Does anyone know if the structure of ghazels allow for the use of homophones in the refrain? I don't know if the original languages even have them to answer the question, but apparently it was originally written to be spoken, so the use of homophones could add to the layering of meaning in the work depending on the pairing- like son/sun.
       
      Thanks
      alais in caid
       
       


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    • Brett Lawrence
      Alais, If you are writing an authentic Ghazal, then to alter your refrain or Radif, by using a homophone would not be allowed according to the traditional
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 26, 2007
        Alais,
           If you are writing an 'authentic' Ghazal, then to alter your refrain or Radif, by using a homophone would not be allowed according to the traditional rules as I know them.
         
           Now, if by your question you meant to ask whether it is permissible, in a strictly authentic Ghazal, to use homophones as a way to make the internal rhymes, or Kaafiyaa which immediately preceed the Radif, I honestly don't know, but my undocumented guess would be 'not only yes, but heck yes'.
         
        The notes for my Ghazal on Rumi, here (at the bottom of the page): http://www.geocities.com/o_secca@.../rumi.html
        include some good links to sources on the Ghazal form.
         
        Yours in service to the muse,
           ~~ Secca ~~

         

        "Ordeyne how it shal be * and it shal be do"

                            The Tale of Gamelyn - Anonymous

        My poetry: http://www.geocities.com/o_secca@.../
        http://erika.net ~~ The BEST in Eclectic Web Radio!



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Lisa Harmon <asilnomrah@...>
        To: Bard Bard <SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 7:37:12 PM
        Subject: [SCA_BARDS] Ghazels and Homophones and Refrains

        Does anyone know if the structure of ghazels allow for the use of homophones in the refrain? I don't know if the original languages even have them to answer the question, but apparently it was originally written to be spoken, so the use of homophones could add to the layering of meaning in the work depending on the pairing- like son/sun.
         
        Thanks
        alais in caid
         
         


        Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
        Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.


      • Lisa Harmon
        Ah thank you- that s what I was wondering. Does the original languages have a lot of homophones? Forms within a cultural context reflects the language and how
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 27, 2007
          Ah thank you- that's what I was wondering. Does the original languages have a lot of homophones? Forms within a cultural context reflects the language and how it is structured. If those languages don't have a lot of homophones, then their use like that would not arise.
           
          Now, if the Irish wrote Ghazals, there'd be use of homophones all over the punny place. Not that a well-trained bard or fillidh would need them to be heard. And the M horde would probably roast ghazals with some garlic over a nice bed of coals. But both would down them with some mead or other beverage- no? (And perhaps the early Persians as well.....)
          alais

          Brett Lawrence <o_secca@...> wrote:
          Alais,
             If you are writing an 'authentic' Ghazal, then to alter your refrain or Radif, by using a homophone would not be allowed according to the traditional rules as I know them.
           
            


          Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
          Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos.

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