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Etiquette

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  • Jess
    My name s Jessica, and I m fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread my little bardic wings,
    Message 1 of 28 , May 3, 2006
      My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
      have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
      my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
      on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
      work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
      wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
      steal their "stuff".

      The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
      where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
      someone performing your work.

      Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
      from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
      or, should I steer clear?

      How does all of this come to play with a competition?

      Thanks for you help!

      Jessica
    • tim jennings
      I think most people are ok with others performing their work (especially if they are posting it on the web) as long as you credit them and don t change the
      Message 2 of 28 , May 3, 2006
        I think most people are ok with others performing their work (especially
        if they are posting it on the web) as long as you credit them and don't
        change the piece (regionalize it, etc) without asking the author if that
        is ok. Some of my own pieces I am not ok with people fiddling with, and
        some I am.

        Overall, it is always a bit of a thrill to hear someone else doing one
        of my songs or poems. It makes me think I am having an effect.

        Welcome and look forward to hearing you at an event sometime

        Where are you from?

        Tim/Garraed


        Tim Jennings, Managing Director
        Roseneath Theatre
        +1 519 787 2399
        www.roseneath.ca


        -----Original Message-----
        From: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Jess
        Sent: May 3, 2006 10:16 AM
        To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [SCA_BARDS] Etiquette

        My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
        have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
        my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
        on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
        work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
        wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
        steal their "stuff".

        The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
        where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
        someone performing your work.

        Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
        from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
        or, should I steer clear?

        How does all of this come to play with a competition?

        Thanks for you help!

        Jessica






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      • Ellen Griffith
        I would be very interested in reading some more poetry that is currently acceptable, as i am still slightly confused to how i should write my own works. Many
        Message 3 of 28 , May 3, 2006
          I would be very interested in reading some more poetry that is
          currently acceptable, as i am still slightly confused to how i should
          write my own works.

          Many thanks,
          Ellen

          On 5/3/06, tim jennings <tim@...> wrote:
          > I think most people are ok with others performing their work (especially
          > if they are posting it on the web) as long as you credit them and don't
          > change the piece (regionalize it, etc) without asking the author if that
          > is ok. Some of my own pieces I am not ok with people fiddling with, and
          > some I am.
          >
        • tim jennings
          That s a very broad question. I would suggest that the various Kingdom bardic pages are good places to begin and se a variety of stuff. My own Kingdom s bardic
          Message 4 of 28 , May 3, 2006
            That's a very broad question. I would suggest that the various Kingdom
            bardic pages are good places to begin and se a variety of stuff.

            My own Kingdom's bardic site is www.bards.ca. Just look up the online
            works to see some of examples

            TTFN
            Garraed/Tim



            Tim Jennings, Managing Director
            Roseneath Theatre
            +1 519 787 2399
            www.roseneath.ca


            -----Original Message-----
            From: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Ellen Griffith
            Sent: May 3, 2006 10:34 AM
            To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA_BARDS] Etiquette

            I would be very interested in reading some more poetry that is
            currently acceptable, as i am still slightly confused to how i should
            write my own works.

            Many thanks,
            Ellen

            On 5/3/06, tim jennings <tim@...> wrote:
            > I think most people are ok with others performing their work
            (especially
            > if they are posting it on the web) as long as you credit them and
            don't
            > change the piece (regionalize it, etc) without asking the author if
            that
            > is ok. Some of my own pieces I am not ok with people fiddling with,
            and
            > some I am.
            >


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          • mathurin@forgottensea.org
            ... In general, you can perform another s original work. ... I would say it is a courtesy to ask permission, and especially to do so before performing it in
            Message 5 of 28 , May 3, 2006
              Jess said:

              > If it is another's original
              > work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
              > wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
              > steal their "stuff".

              In general, you can perform another's original work.

              > The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
              > where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
              > someone performing your work.

              I would say it is a courtesy to ask permission, and especially to do so
              before performing it in that person's presence


              > Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
              > from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
              > or, should I steer clear?

              It is usually safe to err on the side of performing.

              > How does all of this come to play with a competition?

              Depends on the competition.

              Mathurin
            • Marcus Barber
              I gotta tell you, one of the coolest things I ever heard was at an Estrella a few years back. I had moved from Meridies (now Gleann Abhann) in 98 to Caid,
              Message 6 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                I gotta tell you, one of the coolest things I ever heard was at an Estrella a few years back.  I had moved from Meridies (now Gleann Abhann) in '98 to Caid, and started singing some of my stuff here.  Well, I guess 4-5 years later I was at Estrella, just walking through the various encampments, when I heard something off in the distance that sounded familiar.  As I got closer, I recognized it as a filk I had written several years earlier.  When I asked permission to enter the camp, I recognized the book they were playing from as a compilation of bardic songs I had contributed to.  It was awesome, and they asked me to re-do it with them right then and there.  I was honored for them to find the piece entertaining.
                 
                I am more than happy to either allow other bards to do my stuff or for fledgling bards to sit with me and collaborate on a piece that best reflects their talents.  Right now I am on a poetry/storytelling kick, but going "song-mode" couldn't be THAT hard again, could it?
                 
                I wish you the best of success, and look forward to hearing you!
                 
                Beorn of the Northern Sea
                 
                On 5/3/06, tim jennings <tim@...> wrote:
                I think most people are ok with others performing their work (especially
                if they are posting it on the web) as long as you credit them and don't
                change the piece (regionalize it, etc) without asking the author if that
                is ok. Some of my own pieces I am not ok with people fiddling with, and
                some I am.

                Overall, it is always a bit of a thrill to hear someone else doing one
                of my songs or poems. It makes me think I am having an effect.

                Welcome and look forward to hearing you at an event sometime

                Where are you from?

                Tim/Garraed


                Tim Jennings, Managing Director
                Roseneath Theatre
                +1 519 787 2399
                www.roseneath.ca



                -----Original Message-----
                From: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of Jess
                Sent: May 3, 2006 10:16 AM
                To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [SCA_BARDS] Etiquette

                My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
                have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
                my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
                on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
                work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
                wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
                steal their "stuff".

                The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
                where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
                someone performing your work.

                Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
                from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
                or, should I steer clear?

                How does all of this come to play with a competition?

                Thanks for you help!

                Jessica






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              • Jess
                Thanks, Tim! I m from the Barony of Steppes in Anstreorra (Dallas, TX). I ve got one song in book so far (other than Greensleeves!).I composed a tune for a bit
                Message 7 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                  Thanks, Tim! I'm from the Barony of Steppes in Anstreorra (Dallas, TX).

                  I've got one song in book so far (other than Greensleeves!).I composed
                  a tune for a bit of poetry from Lord of the Rings. I really like it,
                  and it has been well received, but of course it's completely OOP. So I
                  don't want to perform it at an event.

                  I'm just trying to find some things I can perform, as I work to find
                  my voice and write my own.

                  I'm really enjoying this group. Thanks, everybody!

                  Jessica
                • mathurin@forgottensea.org
                  ... Here is a good link to descriptions and examples of various poetic forms. (Note that not all of these forms are Period).
                  Message 8 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                    Ellen Griffith said:

                    > I would be very interested in reading some more poetry that is
                    > currently acceptable, as i am still slightly confused to how i should
                    > write my own works.

                    Here is a good link to descriptions and examples of various poetic forms.
                    (Note that not all of these forms are Period).

                    http://www.poets.org/page.php/prmID/197

                    Mathurin
                  • tim jennings
                    I would suggest that it is probably fine to perform at events outside of serious period bardic circles or A&S competitions. The Knighting ceremony of several
                    Message 9 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                      I would suggest that it is probably fine to perform at events outside of
                      serious period bardic circles or A&S competitions. The Knighting
                      ceremony of several Kingdoms is drawn directly from the LOTR...right
                      down to the oath

                      My fiancée is Eleanor Fairchild (Truly Carmichael) from Anstoeorra. A
                      well known bard and harper. She is now here in Canada with me, but I
                      know from her that Ansteorra has a good bardic college website and her
                      student (Alden Drake) and 'dads' (Masters Iolo and Robin) are there as
                      well if you need bardic contacts

                      TTFN
                      Tim

                      Tim Jennings, Managing Director
                      Roseneath Theatre
                      +1 519 787 2399
                      www.roseneath.ca


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Jess
                      Sent: May 3, 2006 11:22 AM
                      To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [SCA_BARDS] Re: Etiquette

                      Thanks, Tim! I'm from the Barony of Steppes in Anstreorra (Dallas, TX).

                      I've got one song in book so far (other than Greensleeves!).I composed
                      a tune for a bit of poetry from Lord of the Rings. I really like it,
                      and it has been well received, but of course it's completely OOP. So I
                      don't want to perform it at an event.

                      I'm just trying to find some things I can perform, as I work to find
                      my voice and write my own.

                      I'm really enjoying this group. Thanks, everybody!

                      Jessica





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                    • Ellen Griffith
                      Garraed/Tim and Mathurin, Those links are exactly what I needed. thank you ever so much for your assistance! Ellen
                      Message 10 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                        Garraed/Tim and Mathurin,

                        Those links are exactly what I needed. thank you ever so much for your assistance!

                        Ellen

                         
                      • Marcus Barber
                        Unto Ellen doth Beorn send most courteous greetings! Well, all period forms of poetry are acceptable (as near as I know; other Kingdoms do things differently).
                        Message 11 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                          Unto Ellen doth Beorn send most courteous greetings!
                           
                          Well, all period forms of poetry are acceptable (as near as I know; other Kingdoms do things differently).  Obviously, some are more pleasing to the modern ear than others (since we can perform period items, but the period ear is gone), but all can be appreciated provided they are written well and performed even better.  A slight misstep in the scan/meter of a poem may be forgiven (in competition or A&S and such at any rate) if the recitation can compensate for such.
                           
                          Currently I am enjoying sonnets, conachlonn (bardic chain verse), rondeaus, and various drapas or other Norse poetic styles.  To start with, Wikipedia online can give you a basic idea of where to begin for hard-copy resources.  There are dozens of bards both on this list and on your home Kingdom's list(s) that may be able to assist you as well.
                           
                          If you're running into a snag for a rhyme, a synonym, or even a word that begins with a certain letter, I recommend the following website: http://www.rhymezone.com/ 
                           
                          I know, I know, some may find that cheating, but for a beginner, this could make the difference between a completed poem and a discarded work due to a casualty of frustration.
                           
                          Most of all, I cannot overstate the importance of just getting out there and writing/performing pieces.  Performing them is a good way to gauge your audience aplomb.  For the actual mechanics there are 2 schools of thought I go with, and depending upon your personality type may be useful.  First, write several different styles of poetry (haiku, sonnet, skaldic, etc.) or several different meters/rhythms (iambic, trochaic, tetrameter versus 2-3 or something else) all about the same subject.  Secondly, pick one form (the aforementioned sonnet, ubiquitous though it is) and write several different ones on several different subjects (love, war, your spouse, your Laurel's bread pudding, Brazil's independence from foreign fossil fuels, whatever) and then have a mini-circle and try them out on some friends and fellow bards.
                           
                          Now, just so you don't think that such is impossible, let's try it out:
                           

                          A Shakespearean Sonnet on Brazil's independence on oil.

                          By Beorn of the Northern Sea (MKA M. Barber)

                           

                          It seems Brazil has left their fossil fuels.

                          How wondrous to be free from outside might!

                          The corn, like rows of amber-colored jewels,

                          Are turned into a power burning bright!

                           

                          But how did they achieve what none have done?

                          How could they win the "battle for the oil?"

                          For many other nations are undone,

                          By their dependence on a foreign soil.

                           

                          I guess the simple answer is THE WILL.

                          They chose to make this tough determined stride.

                          And now our country's envious of Brazil,

                          Since they are much deserving of such pride.

                           

                          Now see? If such an effort can be made,

                          Can not our debt to Earth now be repaid?
                           
                          Okay, so a few things don't scan so well.  For example, 'fuels' and 'jewels' need to be recited as a one-syllable word rather than two (easy enough, just don't say "few-ehl" and you should be fine).  The same holds true with 'oil' and 'soil' (just no "oll" or "soll" so as to not sound hinky).  And, envious should be recited as a 2-syllable word (kinda like 'en-vyous').  Other than that, just sit down with your friends and try things out.
                           
                          Best of luck!
                           
                          Beorn of the Northern Sea
                           
                          On 5/3/06, Ellen Griffith <AuntyD@...> wrote:
                          I would be very interested in reading some more poetry that is
                          currently acceptable, as i am still slightly confused to how i should
                          write my own works.

                          Many thanks,
                          Ellen
                        • Ellen Griffith
                          Kindley Sent to Beorn of the Northern Sea, How wonderful an example! And yes this does answer my remaining questions and puts me on the right track. My largest
                          Message 12 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                            Kindley Sent to Beorn of the Northern Sea,

                            How wonderful an example! And yes this does answer my remaining questions and puts me on the right track. My largest fear was the fact that I have very little experience writing in the older forms of English. I have written a number of pieces that conform to the literary needs, but with a modern subject matter. I'll be taking my time and trying out some new ideas now, hopefully to a much better conclusion then before.

                            I hope you don't mind me sharing something that I wrote last week; I would like to have some suggestions on improvements that could be made, and where this would be appropriate. I'll start modifying some of my styles in the future, and perhaps will come up with some more "period" appropriate pieces. I tried something with repetition below:

                            Companions

                            Far away, far away
                            There are dusty roads ahead
                            We shall walk them
                            With sad faces
                            For the King shall soon be dead

                            Far away, far away
                            To a land of ne'er old
                            We'll go questing
                            Towards that hillside
                            And bear the King on silken gold

                            Far away, far away
                            We will lay his body down
                            But his essence
                            Will go soaring
                            To the halls under the ground

                            Far away, far away
                            In Oisin's halls so dear
                            With the fair folk
                            As companions
                            He'll live forever and a year

                            ~E~

                            I'm still so new to this so many thanks to all, for any help and suggestions.
                            Truly,
                            Ellen Griffith


                          • Marcus Barber
                            Quite nice Ellen! Very well done. I am so glad to see the work you re doing. Keep it up! Beorn (who really enjoys ballads and celtic-inspired works a
                            Message 13 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                              Quite nice Ellen!  Very well done.  I am so glad to see the work you're doing.  Keep it up!
                               
                              Beorn (who really enjoys ballads and "celtic-inspired" works a great deal)

                               
                              On 5/3/06, Ellen Griffith <AuntyD@...> wrote:
                              Kindley Sent to Beorn of the Northern Sea,

                              How wonderful an example! And yes this does answer my remaining questions and puts me on the right track. My largest fear was the fact that I have very little experience writing in the older forms of English. I have written a number of pieces that conform to the literary needs, but with a modern subject matter. I'll be taking my time and trying out some new ideas now, hopefully to a much better conclusion then before.

                              I hope you don't mind me sharing something that I wrote last week; I would like to have some suggestions on improvements that could be made, and where this would be appropriate. I'll start modifying some of my styles in the future, and perhaps will come up with some more "period" appropriate pieces. I tried something with repetition below:

                              Companions

                              Far away, far away
                              There are dusty roads ahead
                              We shall walk them
                              With sad faces
                              For the King shall soon be dead

                              Far away, far away
                              To a land of ne'er old
                              We'll go questing
                              Towards that hillside
                              And bear the King on silken gold

                              Far away, far away
                              We will lay his body down
                              But his essence
                              Will go soaring
                              To the halls under the ground

                              Far away, far away
                              In Oisin's halls so dear
                              With the fair folk
                              As companions
                              He'll live forever and a year

                              ~E~

                              I'm still so new to this so many thanks to all, for any help and suggestions.
                              Truly,
                               
                              Ellen Griffith





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                            • mathurin@forgottensea.org
                              ... This is a common tactic for making things scan. Another example would be something like e er for ever . And the reverse, as in Good King Wenceslas,
                              Message 14 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                                Marcus Barber said:

                                > Okay, so a few things don't scan so well. For example, 'fuels' and
                                > 'jewels'
                                > need to be recited as a one-syllable word rather than two (easy enough,
                                > just
                                > don't say "few-ehl" and you should be fine).

                                This is a common tactic for making things scan. Another example would be
                                something like "e'er" for "ever". And the reverse, as in Good King
                                Wenceslas, "fuel" pronounced as "fu-u-el".

                                Mathurin
                              • Ellen Griffith
                                ... Thank you! Ellen
                                Message 15 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                                  On 5/3/06, Marcus Barber <marcus.barber@...> wrote:
                                  Quite nice Ellen!  Very well done.  I am so glad to see the work you're doing.  Keep it up!
                                   
                                  Beorn (who really enjoys ballads and "celtic-inspired" works a great deal)

                                   
                                  Thank you!
                                  Ellen
                                • KaziBrionSCA
                                  I strongly believe that the obvious answer is the moral one as well - ask permission and give credit where due. In most cases I m happy to let people use my
                                  Message 16 of 28 , May 3, 2006
                                    I strongly believe that the "obvious answer" is the moral one as well - ask permission and give credit where due.  In most cases I'm happy to let people use my original stuff, and I think that's typical . . . But there are some exceptions and you couldn't know what they are.  Even if a performance of someone else's stuff is technically legal under the doctrine of "fair use", I would call it unethical if you knew that person objected.  Taking advantage of the fact that you don't know if the person objects . . . that's kind of iffy.
                                     
                                    OTOH, "fair use" is a real consideration that exists for good reason.  If you are new, there's no way for you to track down the author, you're performing in an informal, unrecorded environment, and the piece doesn't violate any of the obvious taboos, I think you're pretty safe.
                                     
                                    So what are the "obvious taboos"?
                                     
                                    *  A big one is personal stories, i.e., stories about a real person's life and experience.  Tell the stories about your own mother, not the ones about mine.  In the mundane storytelling community that is a major no-no and would get you some serious bad juju.  I have also seen it cause real problems when the story morphed into something less complimentary, and the audience assumed the piece was the same as it would have been if it came from the horse's mouth.  You get the idea.  Don't do other people's personal stories.
                                     
                                    *  A second category is signature pieces.  There are some pieces that are tightly associated with a particular performer.  Doing that piece in the same pond as that performer could water down their effectiveness.
                                     
                                    *  Third, any performance that is being recorded or sold would raise serious copyright issues.  Don't go near that swamp!
                                     
                                    *  You should also know that some people perform professionally as well as in the SCA.  They have extra worries about protecting copyrights, being paid for their work, and the fact that they may have sold certain rights and want to avoid any chance that what your doing could cause their customer any heartache.
                                     
                                    That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
                                     
                                    FWIW,
                                     
                                    THL Brion Enkazi
                                    Sylvan Bard of Aethelmearc, ret., ret.
                                    Proud husband to another Sylvan Bard, ret.
                                     
                                    a/k/a Scott Pavelle, Esq. professional storyteller and attorney-at-law
                                  • Jeff Suzuki
                                    ... Personally: the more people who perform my work, the more pleased I ll be. If they happen to cite me, great. If not...well, I ve made sure there s
                                    Message 17 of 28 , May 6, 2006
                                      --- Jess <jess_ckd@...> wrote:

                                      > The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and
                                      > give credit
                                      > where due. But I was curious what the general
                                      > thought is about
                                      > someone performing your work.

                                      Personally: the more people who perform my work, the
                                      more pleased I'll be. If they happen to cite me,
                                      great. If not...well, I've made sure there's enough
                                      documentation so that if, say, one of my pieces
                                      becomes the national anthem for Bothemia,
                                      musicologists will be able to trace its origins...

                                      Jeffs/etc.

                                      __________________________________________________
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                                    • Erik Mathias K.
                                      I think the etiquette is only a problem if you are saying it in first person, I know many a bard/ or think so who tell someone else s story as if they were
                                      Message 18 of 28 , May 12, 2006
                                        I think the etiquette is only a problem if you are saying it in first person, I
                                        know many a bard/ or think so who tell someone else's story as if they were
                                        their. I know it sound nice to make your audaince beleive that you were
                                        present for the story, but though I am old enough to tell the story of the
                                        founding of the SCA I would have been less then one year old, and my
                                        perspective would have been more too my mothers milk then too the
                                        gathering. Would be an intresting story, but that's another story!

                                        THL Mathias

                                        --- In SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com, "Jess" <jess_ckd@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
                                        > have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
                                        > my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
                                        > on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
                                        > work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
                                        > wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
                                        > steal their "stuff".
                                        >
                                        > The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
                                        > where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
                                        > someone performing your work.
                                        >
                                        > Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
                                        > from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
                                        > or, should I steer clear?
                                        >
                                        > How does all of this come to play with a competition?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for you help!
                                        >
                                        > Jessica
                                        >
                                      • Frederick J. Hollander
                                        Flieg here- As many of the folk here have said, it is a real thrill to hear someone doing one of my pieces. This is especially true when they have a better
                                        Message 19 of 28 , May 12, 2006
                                          Flieg here-

                                          As many of the folk here have said, it is a real thrill to hear someone
                                          doing one of my pieces. This is especially true when they have a better
                                          voice than I do.

                                          Any of my material can be performed by anyone, as long as they are doing
                                          it in an SCA performance context for free. If you figure out a way to make
                                          money on my songs, I want to have a small talk about sharing. (That's from
                                          the (c) notice that I put in all my songbooks.)

                                          And as someone noted -- don't claim other's work as your own.

                                          Contrariwise, if it is your own work, make sure people know it. I
                                          confused the heck out of a competition when I sang my "Blessings on the
                                          Brewer" song, which I introduced with the whole litany about "A Mighty
                                          Fortress is Our God" being written to an old German drinking song, since
                                          lost. "So here is the bad English translation of the original drinking song."

                                          *I* thought I had made it clear that I had *written* the "bad English...",
                                          but a couple of people chided me (gently) for not providing the original
                                          documentation. Now I make it clearer.


                                          At 07:16 AM 5/3/06, you wrote:
                                          >My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
                                          >have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
                                          >my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
                                          >on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
                                          >work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
                                          >wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
                                          >steal their "stuff".
                                          >
                                          >The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
                                          >where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
                                          >someone performing your work.
                                          >
                                          >Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
                                          >from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
                                          >or, should I steer clear?
                                          >
                                          >How does all of this come to play with a competition?
                                          >
                                          >Thanks for you help!
                                          >
                                          >Jessica
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >Community email addresses:
                                          > Post message: SCA_BARDS@egroups.com
                                          > Subscribe: SCA_BARDS-subscribe@egroups.com
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                                          * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, OL, etc.
                                          *|* *|* *|* flieg@... <<note change of address
                                          |===========| http://xray.cchem.berkeley.edu/flieg2/wkwc
                                          (((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))
                                          ===A crank.========= Old Used Duke ======Not a tool.=====
                                        • Marcus Antaya
                                          Just as a complete aside, Can you send me any documentation on the original german drinking song? I m trying to put together a class on Church Filking, or the
                                          Message 20 of 28 , May 14, 2006
                                            Just as a complete aside,

                                            Can you send me any documentation on the original german drinking song? I'm trying to put together a class on Church Filking, or the ways the church used common songs to create their hymns.

                                            Thanks

                                            Gyric


                                            "Frederick J. Hollander" <flieg@...> wrote:
                                            Flieg here-

                                               As many of the folk here have said, it is a real thrill to hear someone
                                            doing one of my pieces. This is especially true when they have a better
                                            voice than I do.

                                               Any of my material can be performed by anyone, as long as they are doing
                                            it in an SCA performance context for free. If you figure out a way to make
                                            money on my songs, I want to have a small talk about sharing. (That's from
                                            the (c) notice that I put in all my songbooks.)

                                               And as someone noted -- don't claim other's work as your own.

                                            Contrariwise, if it is your own work, make sure people know it. I
                                            confused the heck out of a competition when I sang my "Blessings on the
                                            Brewer" song, which I introduced with the whole litany about "A Mighty
                                            Fortress is Our God" being written to an old German drinking song, since
                                            lost. "So here is the bad English translation of the original drinking song."

                                               *I* thought I had made it clear that I had *written* the "bad English...",
                                            but a couple of people chided me (gently) for not providing the original
                                            documentation. Now I make it clearer.


                                            At 07:16 AM 5/3/06, you wrote:
                                            >My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
                                            >have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
                                            >my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
                                            >on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
                                            >work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
                                            >wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
                                            >steal their "stuff".
                                            >
                                            >The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
                                            >where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
                                            >someone performing your work.
                                            >
                                            >Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
                                            >from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
                                            >or, should I steer clear?
                                            >
                                            >How does all of this come to play with a competition?
                                            >
                                            >Thanks for you help!
                                            >
                                            >Jessica
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >Community email addresses:
                                            >   Post message: SCA_BARDS@egroups.com
                                            >   Subscribe:    SCA_BARDS-subscribe@egroups.com
                                            >   Unsubscribe:  SCA_BARDS-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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                                            >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >

                                                *   *   *    Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, OL, etc.
                                               *|* *|* *|*   flieg@... <<note change of address
                                              |===========|  http://xray.cchem.berkeley.edu/flieg2/wkwc
                                               (((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))
                                              ===A crank.========= Old Used Duke ======Not a tool.=====
                                              



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                                            Lord Gyric of Otershaghe
                                            Troubadour, Entertainer and generally all-around nice guy


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                                          • Frederick J. Hollander
                                            ... ACtually, I used it as an urban myth the website http://www.smithcreekmusic.com/Hymnology/Lutheran.Hymnody/Drinking.song.FAQ.html seems to debunk this
                                            Message 21 of 28 , May 16, 2006
                                              Marcus Antaya wrote:
                                              > Just as a complete aside,
                                              >
                                              > Can you send me any documentation on the original german drinking song?
                                              > I'm trying to put together a class on Church Filking, or the ways the
                                              > church used common songs to create their hymns.

                                              ACtually, I used it as an "urban myth" the website
                                              http://www.smithcreekmusic.com/Hymnology/Lutheran.Hymnody/Drinking.song.FAQ.html
                                              seems to debunk this claim in a manner not associated with dramatic
                                              claims of apostasy and the like which characterize other such sites.

                                              I googled Martin luther fortress tune and got a lot of hits.
                                              >
                                              > Thanks
                                              >
                                              > Gyric
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > */"Frederick J. Hollander" <flieg@...>/* wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Flieg here-
                                              >
                                              > As many of the folk here have said, it is a real thrill to hear
                                              > someone
                                              > doing one of my pieces. This is especially true when they have a better
                                              > voice than I do.
                                              >
                                              > Any of my material can be performed by anyone, as long as they
                                              > are doing
                                              > it in an SCA performance context for free. If you figure out a way
                                              > to make
                                              > money on my songs, I want to have a small talk about sharing.
                                              > (That's from
                                              > the (c) notice that I put in all my songbooks.)
                                              >
                                              > And as someone noted -- don't claim other's work as your own.
                                              >
                                              > Contrariwise, if it is your own work, make sure people know it. I
                                              > confused the heck out of a competition when I sang my "Blessings on the
                                              > Brewer" song, which I introduced with the whole litany about "A Mighty
                                              > Fortress is Our God" being written to an old German drinking song, since
                                              > lost. "So here is the bad English translation of the original
                                              > drinking song."
                                              >
                                              > *I* thought I had made it clear that I had *written* the "bad
                                              > English...",
                                              > but a couple of people chided me (gently) for not providing the original
                                              > documentation. Now I make it clearer.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > At 07:16 AM 5/3/06, you wrote:
                                              > >My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
                                              > >have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
                                              > >my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
                                              > >on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
                                              > >work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
                                              > >wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
                                              > >steal their "stuff".
                                              > >
                                              > >The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
                                              > >where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
                                              > >someone performing your work.
                                              > >
                                              > >Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
                                              > >from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
                                              > >or, should I steer clear?
                                              > >
                                              > >How does all of this come to play with a competition?
                                              > >
                                              > >Thanks for you help!
                                              > >
                                              > >Jessica
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >Community email addresses:
                                              > > Post message: SCA_BARDS@egroups.com
                                              > > Subscribe: SCA_BARDS-subscribe@egroups.com
                                              > > Unsubscribe: SCA_BARDS-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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                                              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, OL, etc.
                                              > *|* *|* *|* flieg@... <<note change of address
                                              > |===========| http://xray.cchem.berkeley.edu/flieg2/wkwc
                                              > (((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))
                                              > ===A crank.========= Old Used Duke ======Not a tool.=====
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
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                                              > Community email addresses:
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                                              > Lord Gyric of Otershaghe
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                                            • Marcus Antaya
                                              Yes, I know...it s very bizzare. I happen to know for a FACT that that s what they did, as evidenced with British Broadside Ballads. I know there is a song in
                                              Message 22 of 28 , May 16, 2006
                                                Yes, I know...it's very bizzare.

                                                I happen to know for a FACT that that's what they did, as evidenced with British Broadside Ballads. I know there is a song in my hymnary that is to the tune of waltzing mathilda, lord of the dance and others, I just can't find the proper proof.

                                                It's bloody frustrating...ARRRRGH!!!

                                                Gyric


                                                "Frederick J. Hollander" <flieg@...> wrote:
                                                Marcus Antaya wrote:
                                                > Just as a complete aside,
                                                >
                                                > Can you send me any documentation on the original german drinking song?
                                                > I'm trying to put together a class on Church Filking, or the ways the
                                                > church used common songs to create their hymns.

                                                    ACtually, I used it as an "urban myth" the website
                                                http://www.smithcreekmusic.com/Hymnology/Lutheran.Hymnody/Drinking.song.FAQ.html
                                                seems to debunk this claim in a manner not associated with dramatic
                                                claims of apostasy and the like which characterize other such sites.

                                                I googled Martin luther fortress tune  and got a lot of hits.
                                                >
                                                > Thanks
                                                >
                                                > Gyric
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > */"Frederick J. Hollander" <flieg@...>/* wrote:
                                                >
                                                >     Flieg here-
                                                >
                                                >        As many of the folk here have said, it is a real thrill to hear
                                                >     someone
                                                >     doing one of my pieces. This is especially true when they have a better
                                                >     voice than I do.
                                                >
                                                >        Any of my material can be performed by anyone, as long as they
                                                >     are doing
                                                >     it in an SCA performance context for free. If you figure out a way
                                                >     to make
                                                >     money on my songs, I want to have a small talk about sharing.
                                                >     (That's from
                                                >     the (c) notice that I put in all my songbooks.)
                                                >
                                                >        And as someone noted -- don't claim other's work as your own.
                                                >
                                                >     Contrariwise, if it is your own work, make sure people know it. I
                                                >     confused the heck out of a competition when I sang my "Blessings on the
                                                >     Brewer" song, which I introduced with the whole litany about "A Mighty
                                                >     Fortress is Our God" being written to an old German drinking song, since
                                                >     lost. "So here is the bad English translation of the original
                                                >     drinking song."
                                                >
                                                >        *I* thought I had made it clear that I had *written* the "bad
                                                >     English...",
                                                >     but a couple of people chided me (gently) for not providing the original
                                                >     documentation. Now I make it clearer.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                >     At 07:16 AM 5/3/06, you wrote:
                                                >      >My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
                                                >      >have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
                                                >      >my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
                                                >      >on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
                                                >      >work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
                                                >      >wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
                                                >      >steal their "stuff".
                                                >      >
                                                >      >The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
                                                >      >where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
                                                >      >someone performing your work.
                                                >      >
                                                >      >Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
                                                >      >from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
                                                >      >or, should I steer clear?
                                                >      >
                                                >      >How does all of this come to play with a competition?
                                                >      >
                                                >      >Thanks for you help!
                                                >      >
                                                >      >Jessica
                                                >      >
                                                >      >
                                                >      >
                                                >      >
                                                >      >
                                                >      >
                                                >      >Community email addresses:
                                                >      >   Post message: SCA_BARDS@egroups.com
                                                >      >   Subscribe:    SCA_BARDS-subscribe@egroups.com
                                                >      >   Unsubscribe:  SCA_BARDS-unsubscribe@egroups.com
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                                                >      >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                >      >
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                                                >
                                                >         *   *   *    Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, OL, etc.
                                                >        *|* *|* *|*   flieg@... <<note change of address
                                                >       |===========|  http://xray.cchem.berkeley.edu/flieg2/wkwc
                                                >        (((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))
                                                >       ===A crank.========= Old Used Duke ======Not a tool.=====
                                                >      
                                                >
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                                                > Lord Gyric of Otershaghe
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                                                Lord Gyric of Otershaghe
                                                Troubadour, Entertainer and generally all-around nice guy


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                                              • Greg Lindahl
                                                ... And for a list, see http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/ballads/music.html and note that Psalm 81 and Psalm 137 are tunes from a 1562 psalter. -- Gregory
                                                Message 23 of 28 , May 16, 2006
                                                  On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 05:23:17PM -0400, Marcus Antaya wrote:

                                                  > I happen to know for a FACT that that's what they did, as evidenced with British Broadside Ballads.

                                                  And for a list, see http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/ballads/music.html and note
                                                  that Psalm 81 and Psalm 137 are tunes from a 1562 psalter.

                                                  -- Gregory
                                                • Greg Lindahl
                                                  ... Oh, and 17th century examples from Bruce Olson s ballad index: Be light, and glad, in God rejoyce/ ZN380| A prayer and thanksgiving [Nov. 17, 1577]/ Tune:
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , May 16, 2006
                                                    On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 02:31:35PM -0700, Greg Lindahl wrote:

                                                    > And for a list, see http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/ballads/music.html and note
                                                    > that Psalm 81 and Psalm 137 are tunes from a 1562 psalter.

                                                    Oh, and 17th century examples from Bruce Olson's ballad index:

                                                    Be light, and glad, in God rejoyce/ ZN380| A prayer and
                                                    thanksgiving [Nov. 17, 1577]/ Tune: foure score and one Psalme/
                                                    By I. Pit, minister/ CR 165: Christopher Barker [AI 2218]<p>

                                                    [AI 2218 means it's in H. E. Rollins _Analytical Index to the Ballad
                                                    Entries_. This is the same Psalm 81 I mentioned earlier...]

                                                    Judge and revenge my cause, O lord. psalme 106/ ZN3415| A verie
                                                    pretie pslame [sic] in foure partes/ [no tune]/ SHNB 5<p>

                                                    [SHNB 5 = Shane Manuscript BL MS ADDl 38,599.]
                                                  • jenny tavernier
                                                    Please see weblink below for update and thanks - jen (fwd from Atenveldt )John Groseclose wrote:
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jun 22, 2006
                                                      Please see weblink below for update and thanks - jen
                                                       
                                                       (fwd from Atenveldt )John Groseclose <iain@...> wrote:
                                                      http://www.marjoriejones.com/staci/missingx.html

                                                      Please, if you've forwarded that URL to anyone, any list, let them
                                                      know that she's found, and to please check the website for updates.

                                                      Iain
                                                      --
                                                      Inter spem curamque, timores inter et iras
                                                      Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum:
                                                      Grata supervenient, quae non sperabitur hora.
                                                      De inimico non loquaris sed cogites
                                                      Spam Delenda Est




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                                                    • jenny tavernier
                                                      This might be of interest. Hugs, jeanne (Lady Jehanne) Fwd from Aten thru West To You all! Jenneth - bard of the pickle bowl ... To:
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Sep 5 12:39 AM
                                                        This might be of interest.
                                                        Hugs,
                                                        jeanne (Lady Jehanne)
                                                         
                                                        Fwd from Aten thru West To You all!   Jenneth - bard of the pickle bowl
                                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                                        Sent: Saturday, September 02, 2006 11:31 AM
                                                        Subject: [ECD] Traditional Music Library

                                                        Just found this site...

                                                        http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/index.htm

                                                        ...which is described below. 

                                                        Enjoy!

                                                        Tom Vincent

                                                        ************************************

                                                        A traditional and folk music archive of songbooks, tune-books, sheet-music, lyrics, midis, tablature, plus music reference, chord diagrams and music educational materials.



                                                        The traditional and folk music here is split into various songbook or tune-book collections each with a particular theme, this could be the particular type of traditional folk or roots music or its source. Includes: musical scores from which you can print sheet music, song sheets with lyrics & chords, tablature, chord diagrams, instrument info and music education resources. There are also MIDI files to play so you can hear what the tunes sound like.


                                                        The main sections of the site are listed below, or to see everything, go to the main menu HERE.
                                                        Traditional Irish folk music songbook and tune-book -some 200+ favorite Irish music, tunes and songs in a 3 part collection. This collection of songs and tunes includes many of the best known and liked folk songs and tunes. There is also a collection of many Irish songs (or songs with Irish associations) with chords marked for guitar etc.
                                                        Traditional & Folk Song Lyrics collection 3700+ items
                                                        A huge collection of around 4000 traditional & folk songs with midi files and lyrics
                                                        TABLATURE This is the sheet music, GUITAR TAB, and MANDOLIN TAB to go with the above 4000 songs.
                                                        Traditional Bluegrass music pages with tune-book and songbook - Around 250 traditional bluegrass songs and tunes commonly performed in this style. These tunes and songs are mostly American folk or roots pieces including some sacred and inspirational songs. They include many numbers which are the most popular and often heard in bluegrass jam sessions and performances. The bluegrass style is characterized by fast tempo with an emphasis on the five string banjo and harmony singing. Bill Munroe and Flatt and Scruggs are often credited with originating this style. There is also educational material on how to play the bluegrass instruments and sing bluegrass harmonies, as well as a large collection of around 1000 bluegrass lyrics here
                                                        Song Collection with 900+ traditional & folk songs with chords in easy keys.
                                                        Traditional Scottish music songbook and tune-book - around 140 favorite Scottish tunes and songs. As with the Irish tune-book an effort has been made to include all the best know and favorite pieces.
                                                        Traditional Old-time (Oldtimey) tune-book and songbook - 300+ tunes & songs commonly associated with the American "old-time" or "oldtimey" genre. Old-time music is essentially American folk and roots music, although very many of the pieces trace back to European origins. Old-time and traditional bluegrass music have many songs and tunes in common but the playing styles are very different. With old-time, the emphasis is much more on tunes and dance music, and often a deliberate effort is made to perform the music in the same way as it might have been done in the rural settings of 100 years ago. There is also a large collection of old-time song lyrics , here you will also find the Carter Family Song book. There is also a page with links to other old-time related sites.
                                                        Folk revival songbook - 70+ popular folk songs associated with the 60's folk revival. This is a mixed bag of folk and roots music from more than one country. The connecting feature being that they are all pieces that were popular in folk clubs around the UK during the 60's . There is also a page with links to many traditional music and folk related sites.
                                                        Sea Shanties & Songs of the sea a collection of 200+ items.
                                                        Traditional Christmas music, carols and hymns songbook - 80+ popular Christmas carols and songs.
                                                        Cowboy songbook - 70+ Cowboy, Western and Pioneer songs.
                                                        Bawdy songs - Songbook with around 80 bawdy or rugby type songs (Warning some of these lyrics may be considered offensive.)
                                                        Stephen Foster songs - Songbook with 70+ popular songs by Stephen Foster.
                                                        Popular & Best Know Traditional and folk music - a collection of 80+ well known traditional song and dance tunes.
                                                        Pub Session Tunes - A 3 part collection of 200+ tunes commonly played at pub sessions and other music sessions in the British Isles. This excellent collection probably includes 80% of the tunes you are likely to hear in English pub music sessions.
                                                        Sussex Folk Orchestra Tunes - A collection of 70+ tunes played by the Sussex Folk Orchestra. This collection contains a "bit of everything" including English, Irish, Welsh, Scottish, American, Cajun, European etc.
                                                        MORE TABLATURE Looking for Tablature (Tab)? If so we have a product which might help. The "Just the Tune" album series features many of the best and most popular of bluegrass, oldtimey and traditional tunes played in authentic traditional styles by award winning multi-instrumentalist Rick Townend. As well as being excellent listening music, these mixed format music CDs(download versions also available) can also print out sheet music and tab for Guitar, Banjo, Mandolin, Dulcimer, Dobro or Tenor Banjo, for each track. Check it out HERE, there is also a similar product for bluegrass harmony singing HERE. We have had a lot of positive feedback from Appalachian clog dancers who have been finding the Just the Tune series ideal for beginners to dance to as they most of the preferred tunes but not at the usual break-neck speeds.
                                                        TRADITIONAL DANCE - Appalachian Clogging (stepping) tutorial by Rosie Davis.
                                                        EDUCATIONAL Singing and playing a large collection of material aimed at helping you be a better singer or instrumentalist. Includes a complete book on how to sing, A chord translation table to allow you to translate chords between any keys, Chord charts and Scale charts for Guitar, Banjo (5 string G tuning), Mandolin and Fiddle (violin), an extensive traditional & folk music oriented Encyclopedic Dictionary of Music, an extensive music tech, audio and home recording glossary HERE, a simple guide to Jazz Chords for guitar, a basic guide on playing 12 bar blues on any instrument, plus lots of other music education goodies.
                                                        FIND MUSIC
                                                        Song Finder - an index of popular music and songs from the last 500 years(approx)
                                                        Songbook Finder - A contents list for 62 popular songbooks and tune-books of folk and traditional music.
                                                        Fake Book & Real Book Finder - A contents list of many popular fakebooks and realbooks.
                                                        NOTEWORTHY COMPOSER FORMAT MUSIC 10 tune books in Noteworthy Composer format including O'Neill's Dance music of Ireland (1600+ tunes) (Other new Noteworthy Composer format items available from main menu)
                                                        You can view a 2 part contents list for all (non-NWC format) the tunes and songs on this site from HERE
                                                        ORDER OUR PAID DOWNLOAD VERSIONS
                                                        See the order information page HERE place order using Paypal HERE
                                                        WEB RESOURCES & OTHER INFO
                                                        About this site - how it started etc look HERE.
                                                        For music technology (home recording etc) and music software related links look HERE.
                                                        There is also a vast list of traditional music related web resources you can view from HERE.
                                                        For musical instrument related web resources (banjo, guitar, fiddle, mandolin etc) look HERE .




                                                        Seige Mathematics. "The right angle to approach a difficult problem is the 'try-angle'" - anon.


                                                        softfooted insight
                                                        when they reached with their voice
                                                        they commanded a greater power and weaponry
                                                        beyond any mere mortal touch

                                                        ©2005JHT


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                                                      • SCABeathog
                                                        Greetings, There was a posting on our household list for SOUTHERN CRUSADES VIII: Heroes of the Crusades NOV 9th - NOV 13th, 2006 WINKELMAN FLATS, WINKELMAN, AZ
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Sep 6 8:56 AM
                                                          Greetings,
                                                           
                                                          There was a posting on our household list for
                                                           
                                                          SOUTHERN CRUSADES VIII: Heroes of the Crusades
                                                          NOV 9th - NOV 13th, 2006
                                                          WINKELMAN FLATS, WINKELMAN, AZ
                                                           
                                                          and I was hoping to hear a bit more about it, especially from a bardic point of view.  :-)
                                                           
                                                          We live in Caid and are looking for another "war fix", now that one of our major events, Great Western War, has been cancelled for this year.  We travel to Estrella each February (and enjoy it very much), but have never attended any other event in Atenveldt.  I do have a copy of the event announcement, but was actually hoping to hear comments from any who have attended this event in the past.
                                                           
                                                          If this is off topic for this list, I apologize, and ask that you please email me privately.
                                                           
                                                          Thank you!
                                                           
                                                          THL Beathog nic Dhonnchaidh
                                                          Guidwife, Cliar Cu Buidhe
                                                        • Stephen R. Melvin
                                                          Jess- A bit dated from your original message, but feel free to perform any of my works so long as credit is given. -Rathflaed _________________________
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Nov 22, 2006
                                                            Jess-
                                                                A bit dated from your original message, but feel free to perform any of my works so long as credit is given.
                                                             
                                                            -Rathflaed
                                                            _________________________
                                                            Rathflaed DuNoir
                                                            The Black Bard of Meridies, MSoB
                                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                                            From: Jess
                                                            Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 6:16 AM
                                                            Subject: [SCA_BARDS] Etiquette

                                                            My name's Jessica, and I'm fairly new to the SCA (no persona yet). I
                                                            have a question about etiquette. As a newbie just trying to spread
                                                            my little bardic wings, I'm hearing a lot of pieces from others and
                                                            on-line that I would like to learn. If it is another's original
                                                            work, is this OK? In general do bards see it as an honor someone
                                                            wants to perform their work, or an insult that they are trying to
                                                            steal their "stuff".

                                                            The obvious answer, I know, is to ask permission and give credit
                                                            where due. But I was curious what the general thought is about
                                                            someone performing your work.

                                                            Also if I find or hear a random piece, and am unsure of who it cam
                                                            from, is it OK to perform with a credit disclaimer at the beginning
                                                            or, should I steer clear?

                                                            How does all of this come to play with a competition?

                                                            Thanks for you help!

                                                            Jessica




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