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thoughts about filk

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  • Julie Carmen
    Greetings to this fine list! I must admit that filk has a new meaning for me. As has been stated before, filk can be very siimple and I must confess that I
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 22, 2002
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      Greetings to this fine list!

      I must admit that filk has a new meaning for me.  As has been stated before, filk can be very siimple and I must confess that I have dabled into writing to a very simple tune.  What I have observed is that simple filk writing to whatever tune, is one way to get a beginner started.  I would never criticize how a newcomer gets started as long as they start somewhere!  In the Outlands, we encourage all types of writing, even writing words about each other in the SCA.  And whether the tune is period or not really doesn't matter.  When COMPETING in an A & S contest, filk is right out!  We share our filk at the bardic circles and with each other on our lists.  It is great creative fun!  Once writing becomes more familiar the period tunes become easier to write to.  Gilligan's Island has been something quite silly to write to and has been quite effective to promote silliness for some songs in the SCA.. So my vote is to write filk!  Eventually original tunes may come from it.  Learn period tunes and think period verbage, but just to let loose and have fun, there's nothing like a good filk!  Good luck!

      THLady Tea, Shire of Caer Galen, Kingdom of the Outlands

       

          Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:31:59 -0600
         From: "Trey Capnerhurst" <traesach@...>
      Subject: Re: Greetings All

      Filk, as we currently call the practice, is indeed period, when *done
      to period music with period significance and referring to period events
      or content.*  The justification I have heard from so many ppl is that
      because it was a period practice, they get to sing 'Bohemian Rhinohide'.

      Most of the strongest defenders of filk are the ppl who write it.  It's
      so easy; every junior high school student does can do it when they are
      parodying pop music.  Unfortunately, this lack of skill also means that
      95% of them aren't worth hearing.  They are not even clever, as a
      general rule.  It's also incredibly jarring and discouraging for those of us
      who do try to authentically replicate period performance to be treated
      to the tune of 'Gilligan's Island'.  If I want good modern parody, I've
      got a ton of Weird Al at home to listen to.

      If more ppl choose to learn how to filk in a period manner, I'd love to
      hear to hear it.  As it stands, I personally have never heard such a
      piece.  Because of these reasons, I absolutely despise filk, and will try
      to leave the room while it is being performed.  And I'm not the only
      one.

      Treasach

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      There are 6 messages in this issue.

      Topics in this digest:

      1. Greetings All from a Bard in Training!
      From: "theseasquirt"
      2. singing accompanied by drum
      From: Joan Garner
      3. Re: singing accompanied by drum
      From: "wodeford"
      4. Re: Greetings All
      From: "Trey Capnerhurst"
      5. Re: singing accompanied by drum
      From: Joan Garner
      6. sorry, list-people -- I meant that last post to be private!
      From: Joan Garner


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 1
      Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:26:44 -0000
      From: "theseasquirt"
      Subject: Greetings All from a Bard in Training!

      I am a SCA newbie, and for the time I am using a pirate/bard personae, because I have the close for it from going to the Ren. Festival in Wench Wear.

      I play harp, penny whistle, and two days ago acquired by first bodhran that I must now learn how to feed, care for and play. I'm a harp playing pirate/gypsy with a gift for filking!

      I have been exploring the Canton of Fasach Mor located in the Middle Kingdom....in search of other like minded persons with which to play.

      I am looking forward to learning more fellow SCAers with similiar interests!

      Blessed Be,
      Lady Rhubarb aka Sea Squirt




      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 2
      Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:36:54 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Joan Garner
      Subject: singing accompanied by drum

      On his fabulous "World's Bliss" cd, John Fleagle sang
      a ballad accompanied solely by bodhran, nothing
      fancy-shmancy rhythmically either, just square solid 1
      & 3 beats of each measure. It was quite remarkably
      effective. The ballad, George Collins, is I think
      out-of-SCA-period, but it roused my curiosity. Has
      anyone encountered this sort of accompaniment before,
      with something that _is_ period?

      Joan the Harper


      =====
      "And she'd had lucky eyes and a high heart, and wisdom that caught fire, at need, like the dried flax and made her beautiful and fierce, sudden and laughing."
      [My favorite line of poetry in the world, from Yeats' "The Old Age of Queen Maeve."]

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
      http://health.yahoo.com


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 3
      Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:32:59 -0000
      From: "wodeford"
      Subject: Re: singing accompanied by drum

      --- In SCA_BARDS@y..., Joan Garner wrote:
      > On his fabulous "World's Bliss" cd, John Fleagle sang
      > a ballad accompanied solely by bodhran, nothing
      > fancy-shmancy rhythmically either, just square solid 1
      > & 3 beats of each measure. It was quite remarkably
      > effective. The ballad, George Collins, is I think
      > out-of-SCA-period, but it roused my curiosity. Has
      > anyone encountered this sort of accompaniment before,
      > with something that _is_ period?

      Geez, Joan, we've got to stop meeting like this and do so for real
      one of these days!

      I do a solo version of the "Agincourt Carol" which, depending on if
      I've remembered to bring percussion, I sing while tapping on a drum
      or tambourine. It was an idea I decided to try and it was extremely
      effective, given the martial spirit of the piece.

      Jehanne de Wodeford



      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 4
      Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:31:59 -0600
      From: "Trey Capnerhurst"
      Subject: Re: Greetings All

      Filk, as we currently call the practice, is indeed period, when *done to period music with period significance and referring to period events or content.* The justification I have heard from so many ppl is that because it was a period practice, they get to sing 'Bohemian Rhinohide'.

      Most of the strongest defenders of filk are the ppl who write it. It's so easy; every junior high school student does can do it when they are parodying pop music. Unfortunately, this lack of skill also means that 95% of them aren't worth hearing. They are not even clever, as a general rule. It's also incredibly jarring and discouraging for those of us who do try to authentically replicate period performance to be treated to the tune of 'Gilligan's Island'. If I want good modern parody, I've got a ton of Weird Al at home to listen to.

      If more ppl choose to learn how to filk in a period manner, I'd love to hear to hear it. As it stands, I personally have never heard such a piece. Because of these reasons, I absolutely despise filk, and will try to leave the room while it is being performed. And I'm not the only one.

      Treasach



      Greetings,
      Alas I can not list myself among the bards but only among the lover
      of bards. My only musical talent would have to be listed as playing
      the drum. I do love that and seem to have some moderate talent for
      it. I do have a question however and would love an answer to it. So
      here be my question. How do bards feel about filk? I would love to be
      able to sing well, in a group that needs a bass I am fine but when it
      comes to solos, well not many that are within my reach. Middle C is
      fine, D is not bad, E is stretching it. So I simply amuse myself, and
      some of my friends, with drumming and writting the occasional filk
      song or two.
      Thanks for the information and for answers forthcoming.
      Charles Cedric Morton


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      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 5
      Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Joan Garner
      Subject: Re: singing accompanied by drum


      --- wodeford wrote:
      > Geez, Joan, we've got to stop meeting like this and
      > do so for real
      > one of these days!

      Indeed we do! You're the couple that's moving down
      here to Mist-landia, right? If you move to Oakland,
      it would be easy to get together during the week since
      I work in Oakland. If you settle in Lafayette/Walnut
      Creek area that could work too -- I pass them daily
      schlepping to work & from work (I live in Vallejo.)

      You mentioned Agincourt Carol which is one of my
      all-time favorites. One year I sang with a show
      called The Revels -- it was glorious and we made our
      first entrance singing Agincourt Carol. That's where
      I met John Fleagle (God rest his soul) -- the man who
      will always be my paradigm of a perfect gentleman!

      Did you mention that you're a soprano? Me too, but
      I've been working on a Renaissance balled (The Hern)
      and I need someone else to sing it. The harp part is
      so damn hard that after I've played that intro, I'm
      too freaked out to sing!

      Hopefully we'll get a chance to meet someday in the
      not too distant future. As soon as I figure out what
      Purgatorio is, I'll know if I'm going!

      Joan the Harper

      =====
      "And she'd had lucky eyes and a high heart, and wisdom that caught fire, at need, like the dried flax and made her beautiful and fierce, sudden and laughing."
      [My favorite line of poetry in the world, from Yeats' "The Old Age of Queen Maeve."]

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
      http://health.yahoo.com


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________

      Message: 6
      Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT)
      From: Joan Garner
      Subject: sorry, list-people -- I meant that last post to be private!

      I'll pay more attention in the future, I promise!

      Joan the Harper

      =====
      "And she'd had lucky eyes and a high heart, and wisdom that caught fire, at need, like the dried flax and made her beautiful and fierce, sudden and laughing."
      [My favorite line of poetry in the world, from Yeats' "The Old Age of Queen Maeve."]

      __________________________________________________
      Do You Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
      http://health.yahoo.com


      ________________________________________________________________________
      ________________________________________________________________________



      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



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    • SD
      My take on filk is pretty much the same as Treasach s. I can t stand the stuff and will leave the room and, about half the time, the site. It s just not
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 22, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        My take on filk is pretty much the same as Treasach's.  I can't stand the stuff and will leave the room and, about half the time, the site.  It's just not something I have any tolderance for whatsoever.  I was, however, rather surprised to be treated to a "filk song" that is harmonious, with a neat message, and a fine tune recently by one of my Apprentice cousins.  All original.  Not Period, but not on the order of O Magnum Champaignium bubbling in my cranium either.  Can't remember who wrote it, but it's called "Acts of Creation".  A fine song.  Reminds me of spirituals.
         
        Filk has a place, but where that place is--had better be decided by somebody else than me.
         
        Ódhrán in Meridies

        REPROOF
         
        In view of your manner
        of spending your days
        I hope you may learn,
        before ending them,
        that the effort you spend
        on defending your ways
        could be better spent
        on amending them.
         
        --Piet Hein, 1905-1996, Danish Mathematician and Philosopher
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:54 AM
        Subject: [SCA_BARDS] thoughts about filk

        Greetings to this fine list!

        I must admit that filk has a new meaning for me.  As has been stated before, filk can be very siimple and I must confess that I have dabled into writing to a very simple tune.  What I have observed is that simple filk writing to whatever tune, is one way to get a beginner started.  I would never criticize how a newcomer gets started as long as they start somewhere!  In the Outlands, we encourage all types of writing, even writing words about each other in the SCA.  And whether the tune is period or not really doesn't matter.  When COMPETING in an A & S contest, filk is right out!  We share our filk at the bardic circles and with each other on our lists.  It is great creative fun!  Once writing becomes more familiar the period tunes become easier to write to.  Gilligan's Island has been something quite silly to write to and has been quite effective to promote silliness for some songs in the SCA.. So my vote is to write filk!  Eventually original tunes may come from it.  Learn period tunes and think period verbage, but just to let loose and have fun, there's nothing like a good filk!  Good luck!

        THLady Tea, Shire of Caer Galen, Kingdom of the Outlands

         

            Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:31:59 -0600
           From: "Trey Capnerhurst" <traesach@...>
        Subject: Re: Greetings All

        Filk, as we currently call the practice, is indeed period, when *done
        to period music with period significance and referring to period events
        or content.*  The justification I have heard from so many ppl is that
        because it was a period practice, they get to sing 'Bohemian Rhinohide'.

        Most of the strongest defenders of filk are the ppl who write it.  It's
        so easy; every junior high school student does can do it when they are
        parodying pop music.  Unfortunately, this lack of skill also means that
        95% of them aren't worth hearing.  They are not even clever, as a
        general rule.  It's also incredibly jarring and discouraging for those of us
        who do try to authentically replicate period performance to be treated
        to the tune of 'Gilligan's Island'.  If I want good modern parody, I've
        got a ton of Weird Al at home to listen to.

        If more ppl choose to learn how to filk in a period manner, I'd love to
        hear to hear it.  As it stands, I personally have never heard such a
        piece.  Because of these reasons, I absolutely despise filk, and will try
        to leave the room while it is being performed.  And I'm not the only
        one.

        Treasach

          SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com wrote:

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        Subscribe: SCA_BARDS-subscribe@egroups.com
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        ------------------------------------------------------------------------

        There are 6 messages in this issue.

        Topics in this digest:

        1. Greetings All from a Bard in Training!
        From: "theseasquirt"
        2. singing accompanied by drum
        From: Joan Garner
        3. Re: singing accompanied by drum
        From: "wodeford"
        4. Re: Greetings All
        From: "Trey Capnerhurst"
        5. Re: singing accompanied by drum
        From: Joan Garner
        6. sorry, list-people -- I meant that last post to be private!
        From: Joan Garner


        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 1
        Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 22:26:44 -0000
        From: "theseasquirt"
        Subject: Greetings All from a Bard in Training!

        I am a SCA newbie, and for the time I am using a pirate/bard personae, because I have the close for it from going to the Ren. Festival in Wench Wear.

        I play harp, penny whistle, and two days ago acquired by first bodhran that I must now learn how to feed, care for and play. I'm a harp playing pirate/gypsy with a gift for filking!

        I have been exploring the Canton of Fasach Mor lo cated in the Middle Kingdom....in search of other like minded persons with which to play.

        I am looking forward to learning more fellow SCAers with similiar interests!

        Blessed Be,
        Lady Rhubarb aka Sea Squirt




        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 2
        Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:36:54 -0700 (PDT)
        From: Joan Garner
        Subject: singing accompanied by drum

        On his fabulous "World's Bliss" cd, John Fleagle sang
        a ballad accompanied solely by bodhran, nothing
        fancy-shmancy rhythmically either, just square solid 1
        & 3 beats of each measure. It was quite remarkably
        effective. The ballad, George Collins, is I think
        out-of-SCA-period, but it roused my curiosity. Has
        anyone encountered this sort of accompaniment before,
        with something that _is_ period?

        Joan the Harper


        =====
        "And she'd had lucky eyes and a high heart, and wisdom that caught fire, at need, like the dried flax and made her beautiful and fierce, sudden and laughing."
        [My favorite line of poetry in the world, from Yeats' "The Old Age of Queen Maeve."]

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
        http://health.yahoo.com


        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 3
        Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:32:59 -0000
        From: "wodeford"
        Subject: Re: singing accompanied by drum

        --- In SCA_BARDS@y..., Joan Garner wrote:
        > On his fabulous "World's Bliss" cd, John Fleagle sang
        > a ballad accompanied solely by bodhran, nothing
        > fancy-shmancy rhythmically either, just square solid 1
        > & 3 beats of each measure. It was quite remarkably
        > effective. The ballad, George Collins, is I think
        > out-of-SCA-period, but it roused my curiosity. Has
        > anyone encountered this sort of accompaniment before,
        > with something that _is_ period?

        Geez, Joan, we've got to stop meeting like this and do so for real
        one of these days!

        I do a solo version of the "Agincourt Carol" which, depending on if
        I've remembered to bring percussion, I sing while tapping on a drum
        or tambourine. It was an idea I decided to try and it was extremely
        effective, given the martial spirit of the piece.

        Jehanne de Wodeford



        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 4
        Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:31:59 -0600
        From: "Trey Capnerhurst"
        Subject: Re: Greetings All

        Filk, as we currently call the practice, is indeed period, when *done to period music with period significance and referring to period events or content.* The justification I have heard from so many ppl is that because it was a period practice, they get to sing 'Bohemian Rhinohide'.

        Most of the strongest defenders of filk are the ppl who write it. It's so easy; every junior high school student does can do it when they are parodying pop music. Unfortunately, this lack of skill also means that 95% of them aren't worth hearing. They are not even clever, as a general rule. It's also incredibly jarring and discouraging for those of us who do try to authentically replicate period performance to be treated to the tune of 'Gilligan's Island'. If I want good modern parody, I've got a ton of Weird Al at home to listen to.

        If more ppl choose to learn how to filk in a period manner, I'd love to hear to hear it. As it stands, I personally have never heard such a piece. Because of these reasons, I absolutely despise filk, and will try to leave the room while it is being performed. And I'm not the only one.
        Treasach



        Greetings,
        Alas I can not list myself among the bards but only among the lover
        of bards. My only musical talent would have to be listed as playing
        the drum. I do love that and seem to have some moderate talent for
        it. I do have a question however and would love an answer to it. So
        here be my question. How do bards feel about filk? I would love to be
        able to sing well, in a group that needs a bass I am fine but when it
        comes to solos, well not many that are within my reach. Middle C is
        fine, D is not bad, E is stretching it. So I simply amuse myself, and
        some of my friends, with drumming and writting the occasional filk
        song or two.
        Thanks for the information and for answers forthcoming.
        Charles Cedric Morton


        Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 5
        Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:50:56 -0700 (PDT)
        From: Joan Garner
        Subject: Re: singing accompanied by drum


        --- wodeford wrote:
        > Geez, Joan, we've got to stop meeting like this and
        > do so for real
        > one of these days!

        Indeed we do! You're the couple that's moving down
        here to Mist-landia, right? If you move to Oakland,
        it would be easy to get together during the week since
        I work in Oakland. If you settle in Lafayette/Walnut
        Creek area that could work too -- I pass them daily
        s chlepping to work & from work (I live in Vallejo.)

        You mentioned Agincourt Carol which is one of my
        all-time favorites. One year I sang with a show
        called The Revels -- it was glorious and we made our
        first entrance singing Agincourt Carol. That's where
        I met John Fleagle (God rest his soul) -- the man who
        will always be my paradigm of a perfect gentleman!

        Did you mention that you're a soprano? Me too, but
        I've been working on a Renaissance balled (The Hern)
        and I need someone else to sing it. The harp part is
        so damn hard that after I've played that intro, I'm
        too freaked out to sing!

        Hopefully we'll get a chance to meet someday in the
        not too distant future. As soon as I figure out what
        Purgatorio is, I'll know if I'm going!

        Joan the Harper

        =====
        "And she'd had lucky eyes and a high heart, and wisdom that caught fire, at need, like the dried flax and made her beautiful and fierce, sudden and laughing."
        [My favorite line of poetry in the world, from Yeats' "The Old Age of Queen Maeve."]

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
        http://health.yahoo.com


        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________

        Message: 6
        Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:52:35 -0700 (PDT)
        From: Joan Garner
        Subject: sorry, list-people -- I meant that last post to be private!

        I'll pay more attention in the future, I promise!

        Joan the Harper

        =====
        "And she'd had lucky eyes and a high heart, and wisdom that caught fire, at need, like the dried flax and made her beautiful and fierce, sudden and laughing."
        [My favorite line of poetry in the world, from Yeats' "The Old Age of Queen Maeve."]

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
        ht tp://health.yahoo.com


        ________________________________________________________________________
        ________________________________________________________________________



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      • kataryna_dragonweaver
        I agree with THLady Tea. To the gentle who was initally asking about filk... It tends to be a sticky subject - the best advice I have is to know your audience.
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 22, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          I agree with THLady Tea.
          To the gentle who was initally asking about filk...

          It tends to be a sticky subject - the best advice I have is to
          know your audience. I'm not saying you should self-censor, but if you
          want to entertain then you'll do better to choose your songs
          according to the audience you sing for. Filk in a competition depends
          on the rules of the competition and what the organizers want from it
          (Some 'fun' bardic competitions (not A&S) ask for filks).
          Will people leave if you sing filk - well - only if they recognize
          it as such. I filk, and if I present a filk I will announce it's a
          filk; but I've had people miss the announcement & think it was an
          original because the tune was obscure. I've also heard people
          complain that a song (not mine) was a filk when it was an original.
          If you enjoy writing filk keep it up, try doing a few to some
          period tunes using period language... then when you feel comfortable
          maybe try your own period style tune & words.
          -Kataryna
        • Fred (Flieg) Hollander
          Flieg here -- On filks: Several people here have pretty well summarized the various positions about filks which are common. Certainly I have to agree that you
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 22, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            Flieg here --

            On filks:

            Several people here have pretty well summarized the various positions about
            filks which are common. Certainly I have to agree that you should not enter
            a filk to a modern tune in an A&S or serious bardic competition.

            However, one of the big purposes of good filks (by which I mean ones
            that are moderately clever and do not consist of merely changing three words
            in a modern song) is social commentary and satire, and there the use of
            a modern song which many people know, especially with ironically related
            original words can be used for forceful satire. And to my mind it is this
            purpose which is closely related to one of the primary purposes of contra-fait
            in period, which is to say, socially apt commentary. Sometimes it is using the
            associations of a modern song to evoke an emotion that one doesn't have the
            talent yet in tunemaking to evoke in an original fashion.

            Thus: "Hit me with your best shot...", or last season's "Queen of Far An Tir"
            I would include my own "Why I joined the SCA" in the latter category,
            and my "We built this Kingdom on Rock and Roll" in the former.

            Would I prefer to see original songs on themes important to the SCA culture?
            Absolutely. I prefer "Born on the List Field" to any of the above, or
            "Roland" (which is a strong commentary on treachery).

            But to get started -- filk. Work your way up to original works in period
            style.

            A word of advice, though. Filks to modern and "trad" folk songs tend to
            go over better, even amongst those who dislike them, that filks to the latest
            song from "Boyz in the Lypsinc".


            At 12:04 AM 7/23/02 -0000, kataryna_dragonweaver wrote:
            >I agree with THLady Tea.
            > To the gentle who was initally asking about filk...
            >

            * * * Frederick of Holland, MSCA, OP, OL, etc.
            *|* *|* *|* flieg@...
            |===========|
            (((Flieg Hollander, Chemistry Dept., U.C. Berkeley)))
            ===A crank.========= Old Used Duke ======Not a tool.=====
            [All subjects of the Crown are equal under its protection.]
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