Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [SCA_BARDS] Moosiness

Expand Messages
  • Trey Capnerhurst
    You will ever be able to convince me that pandering to the lowest commen denominator will somehow elevate minds and values. If I hear a bard perform this kind
    Message 1 of 10 , Jan 2, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      You will ever be able to convince me that pandering to the lowest commen
      denominator will somehow elevate minds and values.

      If I hear a bard perform this kind of material, I would be repulsed and
      would probubly leave. So would many others. I would definatly lose respect
      for the bard that would cater to such poor taste. Alienating all those with
      'honor and chivalry' would mean all you had left in your audience would be
      those who considered this style to be in 'good fun'.

      Active participation obviously implies approval of such behaviour. If a
      bard chooses to wallow in that kind of muck, then it only confirms the
      audiences' sensabilties. The bard looses all ground to elevate their
      attitudes. Permanatly, I'm afraid, to whomever remembers them performing
      such swill.

      The best and really only way of inspiring chivalric and honorable behaviour
      is to be an example yourself. Walking the walk means zero tolerance to
      material that encourages sexism, rasicm, and other low minded thinking.

      IMHO.


      Traesach




      >From: "Stephen Melvin" <Rathflaed@...>
      >Reply-To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
      >To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: RE: [SCA_BARDS] Moosiness
      >Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:40:20
      >
      >We
      > >are supposed to be the guides in these forms of entertainment, and others
      > >will take thier cues from us.>Sometimes though, we can start at a place
      >like the Moose Song, and take them
      >all the way to a period piece about honor and chivalry. Maybe even in a
      >different language. :) Sometimes you have to meet them where they are at,
      >in order to take them somewhere else. It may be sad, but I have found it
      >to
      >be true.
      >
      >There is no challenge in merely performing for a group that already has
      >honor, chivalry and class. If you can find the "lower born" (medievally
      >speaking), and make them desire to act like nobles, well then you have
      >accomplished something. You won't always be able to do it, there are
      >camps/households you won't get past: "Hi, I'm a bard..." before they run
      >you
      >out. But if you can...
      >
      >-R
      >
      >_________________________________________________________________
      >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
      >


      _________________________________________________________________
      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
    • Michael B. Greenstein
      Greetings, all, from Michael Alewright. I have been silent heretofore, because I hoped this subject would exhaust itself and we could get on with the business
      Message 2 of 10 , Jan 2, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Greetings, all, from Michael Alewright.

        I have been silent heretofore, because I hoped this subject would exhaust
        itself and we could get on with the business of entertaining and being
        entertained. Instead, it appears to be smoldering, instead, with flames in
        danger of breaking out any minute.

        That said, I scatter my $0.02 upon the waters, hopefully without adding any
        fuel to the fire:

        > You will ever be able to convince me that pandering to the lowest commen
        > denominator will somehow elevate minds and values.

        Hi, there, I'm a member of the lowest common denominator, by your
        definition. I like the moose song. I am also the current Sylvan Bard of
        AEthelmearc (I get to say that for another week and a half, anyway) and do
        my best to promote period-style poetry and song by my own example, and by
        (hopefully) making it fun (the one time people armed themselves with rocks
        before I performed, I am pleased to say none of them flew). No, I would not
        perform the Moose Song at an SCA bardic circle. I would prefer that if it
        be performed in an SCA context, that it be late in the evening when things
        get informal and people have stopped performing period and SCA appropriate
        pieces. Should someone perform it, I will probably encourage a "return" to
        more appropriate atmospheric pieces with my own work, and if filks seem to
        be the order of the evening, I will consider quietly slipping away
        (depending on my mood).

        Of course, I will probably also join in on the choruses. I've always liked
        that song.

        > Alienating all those with
        > 'honor and chivalry' would mean all you had left in your audience would be
        > those who considered this style to be in 'good fun'.

        You are stating bluntly that those who would not immediately leave at the
        presentation of such a song are without honor and chivalry. Do you truly
        mean this? Do you truly BELIEVE this?

        Do you have such contempt for your audience?

        > The bard looses all ground to elevate their
        > attitudes. Permanatly, I'm afraid, to whomever remembers them performing
        > such swill.

        Anyone who has ever performed the Moose Song is permanently stigmatized?
        Good Gentle, speak only for yourself. Allow me to suggest that even as
        tolerance does not equal absence of standards, the possession and
        maintenance of standards does not equal absence of tolerance.

        There will always be a filking element in the SCA, partly because the SCA
        draws many people who come from a background of enjoying filks. There will
        also always be pickle bucket armor on the list field, T-tunics over
        bluejeans, etc. Lead by example, show people how much fun it is to do it
        more period. You will make no friends and gain no converts by dictating to
        others and making sure that everyone knows you maintain a personal "shit
        list" of filking bards.

        > The best and really only way of inspiring chivalric and honorable
        behaviour
        > is to be an example yourself. Walking the walk means zero tolerance to
        > material that encourages sexism, rasicm, and other low minded thinking.

        Nope. No room for low minded thinking in the SCA. Wouldn't be period.

        Pardon me, I'm going to go listen to the Baltimore Consort perform, "My
        thing is my own."

        Regards,
        Michael
      • Michael B. Greenstein
        Greetings, all, from Michael Alewright. I have been silent heretofore, because I hoped this subject would exhaust itself and we could get on with the business
        Message 3 of 10 , Jan 2, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Greetings, all, from Michael Alewright.

          I have been silent heretofore, because I hoped this subject would exhaust
          itself and we could get on with the business of entertaining and being
          entertained. Instead, it appears to be smoldering, instead, with flames in
          danger of breaking out any minute.

          That said, I scatter my $0.02 upon the waters, hopefully without adding any
          fuel to the fire:

          > You will ever be able to convince me that pandering to the lowest commen
          > denominator will somehow elevate minds and values.

          Hi, there, I'm a member of the lowest common denominator, by your
          definition. I like the moose song. I am also the current Sylvan Bard of
          AEthelmearc (I get to say that for another week and a half, anyway) and do
          my best to promote period-style poetry and song by my own example, and by
          (hopefully) making it fun (the one time people armed themselves with rocks
          before I performed, I am pleased to say none of them flew). No, I would not
          perform the Moose Song at an SCA bardic circle. I would prefer that if it
          be performed in an SCA context, that it be late in the evening when things
          get informal and people have stopped performing period and SCA appropriate
          pieces. Should someone perform it, I will probably encourage a "return" to
          more appropriate atmospheric pieces with my own work, and if filks seem to
          be the order of the evening, I will consider quietly slipping away
          (depending on my mood).

          Of course, I will probably also join in on the choruses. I've always liked
          that song.

          > Alienating all those with
          > 'honor and chivalry' would mean all you had left in your audience would be
          > those who considered this style to be in 'good fun'.

          You are stating bluntly that those who would not immediately leave at the
          presentation of such a song are without honor and chivalry. Do you truly
          mean this? Do you truly BELIEVE this?

          Do you have such contempt for your audience?

          > The bard looses all ground to elevate their
          > attitudes. Permanatly, I'm afraid, to whomever remembers them performing
          > such swill.

          Anyone who has ever performed the Moose Song is permanently stigmatized?
          Good Gentle, speak only for yourself. Allow me to suggest that even as
          tolerance does not equal absence of standards, the possession and
          maintenance of standards does not equal absence of tolerance.

          There will always be a filking element in the SCA, partly because the SCA
          draws many people who come from a background of enjoying filks. There will
          also always be pickle bucket armor on the list field, T-tunics over
          bluejeans, etc. Lead by example, show people how much fun it is to do it
          more period. You will make no friends and gain no converts by dictating to
          others and making sure that everyone knows you maintain a personal "shit
          list" of filking bards.

          > The best and really only way of inspiring chivalric and honorable
          behaviour
          > is to be an example yourself. Walking the walk means zero tolerance to
          > material that encourages sexism, rasicm, and other low minded thinking.

          Nope. No room for low minded thinking in the SCA. Wouldn't be period.

          Pardon me, I'm going to go listen to the Baltimore Consort perform, "My
          thing is my own."

          Regards,
          Michael
        • Susanna Rodriguez
          I missed the part where we declared the Moose Song to be racist or sexist. Everything you say below could well be true about a piece that was those things but
          Message 4 of 10 , Jan 2, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            I missed the part where we declared the Moose Song to be racist or
            sexist. Everything you say below could well be true about a piece that
            was those things but I fail to see how the Mooses are guilty of these
            crimes. Please support this claim.

            Elsa

            --- Trey Capnerhurst <traesach@...> wrote:
            > You will ever be able to convince me that pandering to the lowest
            > commen
            > denominator will somehow elevate minds and values.
            >
            > If I hear a bard perform this kind of material, I would be repulsed
            > and
            > would probubly leave. So would many others. I would definatly lose
            > respect
            > for the bard that would cater to such poor taste. Alienating all
            > those with
            > 'honor and chivalry' would mean all you had left in your audience
            > would be
            > those who considered this style to be in 'good fun'.
            >
            > Active participation obviously implies approval of such behaviour.
            > If a
            > bard chooses to wallow in that kind of muck, then it only confirms
            > the
            > audiences' sensabilties. The bard looses all ground to elevate their
            >
            > attitudes. Permanatly, I'm afraid, to whomever remembers them
            > performing
            > such swill.
            >
            > The best and really only way of inspiring chivalric and honorable
            > behaviour
            > is to be an example yourself. Walking the walk means zero tolerance
            > to
            > material that encourages sexism, rasicm, and other low minded
            > thinking.
            >
            > IMHO.
            >
            >
            > Traesach
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >From: "Stephen Melvin" <Rathflaed@...>
            > >Reply-To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
            > >To: SCA_BARDS@yahoogroups.com
            > >Subject: RE: [SCA_BARDS] Moosiness
            > >Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:40:20
            > >
            > >We
            > > >are supposed to be the guides in these forms of entertainment, and
            > others
            > > >will take thier cues from us.>Sometimes though, we can start at a
            > place
            > >like the Moose Song, and take them
            > >all the way to a period piece about honor and chivalry. Maybe even
            > in a
            > >different language. :) Sometimes you have to meet them where they
            > are at,
            > >in order to take them somewhere else. It may be sad, but I have
            > found it
            > >to
            > >be true.
            > >
            > >There is no challenge in merely performing for a group that already
            > has
            > >honor, chivalry and class. If you can find the "lower born"
            > (medievally
            > >speaking), and make them desire to act like nobles, well then you
            > have
            > >accomplished something. You won't always be able to do it, there
            > are
            > >camps/households you won't get past: "Hi, I'm a bard..." before they
            > run
            > >you
            > >out. But if you can...
            > >
            > >-R
            > >
            > >_________________________________________________________________
            > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
            > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
            > >
            >
            >
            > _________________________________________________________________
            > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
            > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
            >
            >


            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
            http://greetings.yahoo.com
          • wodeford
            ... perform, My ... ....Which, by the way, is a 17th century filk of Lilliburlero. (Ah, the musical stylings of Custer LaRue.) Tuppenceworth, Jehanne de
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 3, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In SCA_BARDS@y..., "Michael B. Greenstein" <greenstein@s...>
              wrote:

              > Pardon me, I'm going to go listen to the Baltimore Consort
              perform, "My
              > thing is my own."

              ....Which, by the way, is a 17th century "filk" of "Lilliburlero."
              (Ah, the musical stylings of Custer LaRue.)

              Tuppenceworth,
              Jehanne de Wodeford, Font Of Useless Knowledge
            • Greg Lindahl
              ... Nyah, nyah, she lives in *my* shire, not yours! (Jealous yet? She even sings with an amateur early music vocal group in Staunton.) -- Gregory Blount
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 3, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:31:32PM -0000, wodeford wrote:

                > (Ah, the musical stylings of Custer LaRue.)

                Nyah, nyah, she lives in *my* shire, not yours!

                (Jealous yet? She even sings with an amateur early music vocal group
                in Staunton.)

                -- Gregory Blount
              • Jonathan Porges
                -Hazzah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 3, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  -Hazzah


                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
                  http://greetings.yahoo.com
                • wodeford
                  ... Who said laurels were stuffy? I ve just been nyah nyahed by one. ;- ... Cool. My shire (Rusted Woodlands) boasts pavement that bloometh year round, air
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 3, 2002
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In SCA_BARDS@y..., Greg Lindahl <lindahl@p...> wrote:
                    > Nyah, nyah, she lives in *my* shire, not yours!

                    Who said laurels were stuffy? I've just been nyah nyahed by one. ;->

                    > (Jealous yet? She even sings with an amateur early music vocal group
                    > in Staunton.)
                    Cool. My shire (Rusted Woodlands) boasts pavement that bloometh year
                    round, air that is chewy with sweetest carcinogens and tour operators
                    who can point out landmarks from "The Sopranos." Sadly, it will not
                    be my shire for much longer, as I am going to be in the West Kingdom
                    (Danegeld Tor, I think) in a few weeks. Who knows what cool stuff
                    goes on there, but two hours from the Cradle of SCA Civilization?

                    Jehanne de Wodeford, Rusted Woodlands (East)
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.