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Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change

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  • Mark Lindsay
    Greetings All, This just came down from the Earl Marshalls List, and will affect Siege Engineers as well. Please review and let me know if you have any
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 4, 2003
      Greetings All,
      This just came down from the Earl Marshalls List, and will affect Siege
      Engineers as well. Please review and let me know if you have any questions.
      Please note that this is a progressive ruleing that does allow time for
      changes / upgrades.
      Master Quinn Phelan, Deputy Society Marshal for Siege


      > Armor Rule Change
      >
      > All participants on the field during armoured (heavy weapons) combat
      > shall meet the Society minimum armor standards for a fully armoured,
      > heavy weapons combatant. This includes but is not limited to combat
      > archers, scouts, siege engineers and other combatants who may have in
      > the past used "light" armor allowed under the Missile Weapon equipment
      > standards. It would not include marshals, water bearers or churigeons.
      >
      > These standards can be found in the marshals handbook or online, on the
      > Society Marshal's website here:
      >
      > http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/armored/armor_standards.pdf
      >
      > The only exception to this rule shall be those missile combatants
      > equipped with the "Archers Gauntlet'' All missile combatants may wear an
      > archers gauntlet on both hands. Full hand protection is recommended for
      > an archer's bow hand, and whenever conditions place the hand holding a
      > throwing weapon at risk of being struck. The Archers Gauntlet'' shall
      > be a minimum of an ice hockey glove with the fingers cut off, so that
      > the back of the hand and the wrist are protected. Other gauntlets such
      > as demi-gauntlets may be used in place of the "Archers Gauntlet''
      > described above, so long as they provide equivalent or greater protection.
      >
      > Participants have a maximum of 18 months to upgrade their helms to 16
      > gauge or better, if they need to do so. That change will be effective
      > (January 1st, 2005)
      >
      > All participants will have a maximum of 6 months to upgrade any other
      > armor that they need to fit the Society standards. That change will be
      > effective (January 1st, 2004)
      >
      > This ruling applies to all combatants currently using full or
      > non-contact archer/missile combatant armor or non-contact scout armor
      > during heavy/armored combat.
      >
      > This rule change will replace the non-contact armor rules in the
      > marshals handbook and missile user light armor standards in the missile
      > combat handbook.
      >
      ____________________________________________________________________________
      _______
      >
      >
      > In effect this means that participants:
      >
      > 1. That had 18 gauge helms now need to get a 16 gauge (or better)
      > The minimum armor for all participants is:
      > 2. Neck Armor:
      > 3. Kidney protection
      > 4. Groin protection.
      > 4. Hand and Wrist Armor: A minimum of 2 Archers gauntlets.
      > 5. Rigid knee and elbow protection.
      > b. All individuals will wear sturdy footwear while engaged in combat
      > activities.
      >
      > Please check the society standards for specifications on what is allowed
      > or not.
    • dsmith2484@aol.com
      Well, I knew required had protection was comming, I guess it s here in Atenveldt know. (Or has been and I just didn t knwo about it. I m assuming that Siege
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 4, 2003
        Well, I knew required had protection was comming, I guess it's here in
        Atenveldt know. (Or has been and I just didn't knwo about it. I'm assuming that
        Siege Engine operators qualify as "Missle combatants". I certainly feel safer
        operating my engines with my fingers free.

        Daniel


        In a message dated 7/4/2003 6:13:33 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
        lordquinn@... writes:

        >
        > Greetings All,
        > This just came down from the Earl Marshalls List, and will affect Siege
        > Engineers as well. Please review and let me know if you have any questions.
        > Please note that this is a progressive ruleing that does allow time for
        > changes / upgrades.
        > Master Quinn Phelan, Deputy Society Marshal for Siege
        >
        >
        > >Armor Rule Change
        > >
        > >All participants on the field during armoured (heavy weapons) combat
        > >shall meet the Society minimum armor standards for a fully armoured,
        > >heavy weapons combatant. This includes but is not limited to combat
        > >archers, scouts, siege engineers and other combatants who may have in
        > >the past used "light" armor allowed under the Missile Weapon equipment
        > >standards. It would not include marshals, water bearers or churigeons.
        > >
        > >These standards can be found in the marshals handbook or online, on the
        > >Society Marshal's website here:
        > >
        > >http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/armored/armor_standards.pdf
        > >
        > >The only exception to this rule shall be those missile combatants
        > >equipped with the "Archers Gauntlet'' All missile combatants may wear an
        > >archers gauntlet on both hands. Full hand protection is recommended for
        > >an archer's bow hand, and whenever conditions place the hand holding a
        > >throwing weapon at risk of being struck. The Archers Gauntlet'' shall
        > >be a minimum of an ice hockey glove with the fingers cut off, so that
        > >the back of the hand and the wrist are protected. Other gauntlets such
        > >as demi-gauntlets may be used in place of the "Archers Gauntlet''
        > >described above, so long as they provide equivalent or greater protection.
        > >
        > >Participants have a maximum of 18 months to upgrade their helms to 16
        > >gauge or better, if they need to do so. That change will be effective
        > >(January 1st, 2005)
        > >
        > >All participants will have a maximum of 6 months to upgrade any other
        > >armor that they need to fit the Society standards. That change will be
        > >effective (January 1st, 2004)
        > >
        > >This ruling applies to all combatants currently using full or
        > >non-contact archer/missile combatant armor or non-contact scout armor
        > >during heavy/armored combat.
        > >
        > >This rule change will replace the non-contact armor rules in the
        > >marshals handbook and missile user light armor standards in the missile
        > >combat handbook.
        > >
        > ____________________________________________________________________________
        > _______
        > >
        > >
        > >In effect this means that participants:
        > >
        > >1. That had 18 gauge helms now need to get a 16 gauge (or better)
        > >The minimum armor for all participants is:
        > >2. Neck Armor:
        > >3. Kidney protection
        > >4. Groin protection.
        > >4. Hand and Wrist Armor: A minimum of 2 Archers gauntlets.
        > >5. Rigid knee and elbow protection.
        > >b. All individuals will wear sturdy footwear while engaged in combat
        > >activities.
        > >
        > >Please check the society standards for specifications on what is allowed
        > >or not.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
        > http://www.MedievalMart.com/
        >
        > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
        > [Email to SCA-Siege-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mark Lindsay
        No need to assume Siege Engine Opperators are Missile Combatants - they are ( they just throw trees and boulders instead of sticks and stones ) ;-) Quinn
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 4, 2003
          No need to assume Siege Engine Opperators are " Missile Combatants " - they are ( they just throw trees and boulders instead of sticks and stones ) ;-)
          Quinn
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: dsmith2484@...
          To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change


          Well, I knew required had protection was comming, I guess it's here in
          Atenveldt know. (Or has been and I just didn't knwo about it. I'm assuming that
          Siege Engine operators qualify as "Missle combatants". I certainly feel safer
          operating my engines with my fingers free.

          Daniel




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Lonán ua Conaill
          Sticks and stones may break my bones, but trees and bolders kill me. sorry, had to say it.. Lonán ...
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 4, 2003
            Sticks and stones may break my bones, but trees and bolders kill me.

            sorry, had to say it..



            Lon�n




            >No need to assume Siege Engine Opperators are " Missile Combatants " - they
            >are ( they just throw trees and boulders instead of sticks and stones )
            >;-)
            >Quinn

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          • Brian Lapham
            ... I always used demi gauntlets anyway, my only question/clarification is can we still wear two (one on each hand:) )? Or do we have to choose which hand
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 5, 2003
              >From: "Mark Lindsay" <lordquinn@...>
              >
              >No need to assume Siege Engine Opperators are " Missile Combatants " - they
              >are ( they just throw trees and boulders instead of sticks and stones )
              >;-)


              I always used demi gauntlets anyway, my only question/clarification is can
              we still wear two (one on each hand:) )? Or do we have to choose which hand
              will vave a full gauntlet and which a demi?

              Doughal


              >Quinn
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: dsmith2484@...
              > To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:32 AM
              > Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change
              >
              >
              > Well, I knew required had protection was comming, I guess it's here in
              > Atenveldt know. (Or has been and I just didn't knwo about it. I'm
              >assuming that
              > Siege Engine operators qualify as "Missle combatants". I certainly feel
              >safer
              > operating my engines with my fingers free.
              >
              > Daniel
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

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            • Mark Lindsay
              Yes you may still wear two as it takes two hands to opperate most siege engines. It is recommended that a handbow archer use a full gauntlet on his bow hand to
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 5, 2003
                Yes you may still wear two as it takes two hands to opperate most siege engines. It is recommended that a handbow archer use a full gauntlet on his bow hand to reduce the chance of injury, but it is not required. It is also recommended that any missile combatant where full gauntlets but they are allowed to where an archers gauntlet or a demi-gauntlet. You will also be required to have full hand protection if you decide to pick up a secondary weapon to defend your machine.
                I hope this is of help,
                Quinn
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Brian Lapham
                To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:53 AM
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change





                >From: "Mark Lindsay" <lordquinn@...>
                >
                >No need to assume Siege Engine Opperators are " Missile Combatants " - they
                >are ( they just throw trees and boulders instead of sticks and stones )
                >;-)


                I always used demi gauntlets anyway, my only question/clarification is can
                we still wear two (one on each hand:) )? Or do we have to choose which hand
                will vave a full gauntlet and which a demi?

                Doughal


                >Quinn
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: dsmith2484@...
                > To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:32 AM
                > Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change
                >
                >
                > Well, I knew required had protection was comming, I guess it's here in
                > Atenveldt know. (Or has been and I just didn't knwo about it. I'm
                >assuming that
                > Siege Engine operators qualify as "Missle combatants". I certainly feel
                >safer
                > operating my engines with my fingers free.
                >
                > Daniel



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lonán ua Conaill
                it s only Reccomended that Handbowmen use a full on their bow hand? I thought it was quite expressly only the string hand that had the armoring exception...
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 5, 2003
                  it's only Reccomended that Handbowmen use a full on their bow hand? I
                  thought it was quite expressly only the string hand that had the armoring
                  exception...
                  Though, it does make sense that both hands of an engineer and/or crossbowman
                  would be considered string hands...



                  Lon�n




                  >Yes you may still wear two as it takes two hands to opperate most siege
                  >engines. It is recommended that a handbow archer use a full gauntlet on his
                  >bow hand to reduce the chance of injury, but it is not required. It is also
                  >recommended that any missile combatant where full gauntlets but they are
                  >allowed to where an archers gauntlet or a demi-gauntlet. You will also be
                  >required to have full hand protection if you decide to pick up a secondary
                  >weapon to defend your machine.
                  >I hope this is of help,
                  >Quinn
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: Brian Lapham
                  > To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:53 AM
                  > Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > >From: "Mark Lindsay" <lordquinn@...>
                  > >
                  > >No need to assume Siege Engine Opperators are " Missile Combatants " -
                  >they
                  > >are ( they just throw trees and boulders instead of sticks and stones )
                  > >;-)
                  >
                  >
                  > I always used demi gauntlets anyway, my only question/clarification is
                  >can
                  > we still wear two (one on each hand:) )? Or do we have to choose which
                  >hand
                  > will vave a full gauntlet and which a demi?
                  >
                  > Doughal
                  >
                  >
                  > >Quinn
                  > > ----- Original Message -----
                  > > From: dsmith2484@...
                  > > To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
                  > > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:32 AM
                  > > Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Well, I knew required had protection was comming, I guess it's here
                  >in
                  > > Atenveldt know. (Or has been and I just didn't knwo about it. I'm
                  > >assuming that
                  > > Siege Engine operators qualify as "Missle combatants". I certainly
                  >feel
                  > >safer
                  > > operating my engines with my fingers free.
                  > >
                  > > Daniel
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >

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                • Mark Lindsay
                  For the Society Rules it is recommended, Kingdom rules may be more restrictive. Be sure to check both! In your case Lonan, I know that your Kingdom rules state
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 5, 2003
                    For the Society Rules it is recommended, Kingdom rules may be more
                    restrictive. Be sure to check both!
                    In your case Lonan, I know that your Kingdom rules state that your bow hand
                    must have a full gauntlet or the equivilent.
                    Quinn

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Lonán ua Conaill" <lonan13@...>
                    To: <SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 1:09 AM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change


                    > it's only Reccomended that Handbowmen use a full on their bow hand? I
                    > thought it was quite expressly only the string hand that had the armoring
                    > exception...
                    > Though, it does make sense that both hands of an engineer and/or
                    crossbowman
                    > would be considered string hands...
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Lonán
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >Yes you may still wear two as it takes two hands to opperate most siege
                    > >engines. It is recommended that a handbow archer use a full gauntlet on
                    his
                    > >bow hand to reduce the chance of injury, but it is not required. It is
                    also
                    > >recommended that any missile combatant where full gauntlets but they are
                    > >allowed to where an archers gauntlet or a demi-gauntlet. You will also be
                    > >required to have full hand protection if you decide to pick up a
                    secondary
                    > >weapon to defend your machine.
                    > >I hope this is of help,
                    > >Quinn
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: Brian Lapham
                    > > To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 12:53 AM
                    > > Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >From: "Mark Lindsay" <lordquinn@...>
                    > > >
                    > > >No need to assume Siege Engine Opperators are " Missile Combatants
                    " -
                    > >they
                    > > >are ( they just throw trees and boulders instead of sticks and
                    stones )
                    > > >;-)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > I always used demi gauntlets anyway, my only question/clarification is
                    > >can
                    > > we still wear two (one on each hand:) )? Or do we have to choose
                    which
                    > >hand
                    > > will vave a full gauntlet and which a demi?
                    > >
                    > > Doughal
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > >Quinn
                    > > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > > From: dsmith2484@...
                    > > > To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 6:32 AM
                    > > > Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Fw: [MARSHALL] Armor Rule Change
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Well, I knew required had protection was comming, I guess it's
                    here
                    > >in
                    > > > Atenveldt know. (Or has been and I just didn't knwo about it.
                    I'm
                    > > >assuming that
                    > > > Siege Engine operators qualify as "Missle combatants". I
                    certainly
                    > >feel
                    > > >safer
                    > > > operating my engines with my fingers free.
                    > > >
                    > > > Daniel
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
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                    >
                    >
                    > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
                    > http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                    >
                    > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
                    > [Email to SCA-Siege-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                    >
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                    >
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