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ammo question

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  • robin
    Hi, I am looking for the defining answer to whether the color or PSI used for ballista bolts is the important factor. I know the bolt has to be yellow but have
    Message 1 of 4 , May 12, 2012
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      Hi,


      I am looking for the defining answer to whether the color or PSI used for ballista bolts is the important factor.
      I know the bolt has to be yellow but have been asked if black siloflex material at 160PSI is used then covered with yellow duct tape would be allowed to be used.

      There are two engines being built to be used at Pennsic and the crew is getting anxious about building ammo. Securing yellow pipe has proved to be near impossible in western NY. Help will be passed along, gratefully!


      Thank you,
      Nivah


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Taranach McLeod
      Black pipe *IS* allowed with the following specs... it is not specifically the PSI that matters but the material and manufacturing process.... these standards
      Message 2 of 4 , May 12, 2012
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        Black pipe *IS* allowed with the following specs... it is not specifically
        the PSI that matters but the material and manufacturing process.... these
        standards will be printed along the outside of the pipe...

        III.C.3. Siloflex must meet the following standards:

        For pipe that is black in color, it must be manufactured to ASTM D2239 or
        D2737; be made from PE3408; be sized 1�ID if D2239 or 1��OD if D2737; and
        have a SIDR rating of 15 or lower or have a SODR rating of 17 or lower.

        For pipe that is yellow in color, it must be manufactured to ASTM D2513;
        made from PE 2406; be 1�IPS; and have an SDR of 11. (Please note that
        shafts made from yellow Siloflex may not be covered with tape, and the
        markings must be visible.)

        III.E.2 :
        Ballista Javelins (bolts) - must have a shaft made from Siloflex or similar
        equivalent material (as per III.C.3). They must have a tip made with at
        least 3" (7.6cm) of resilient material between the end of the shaft and the
        striking surface, must be at least 2.5" (6.4cm) in diameter, and must have
        at least 1" (2.5 cm) of progressive give without bottoming out on the
        shaft. Additionally, the end of the shaft that the tip is secured to must
        be capped with a minimum of 1/8" (4mm) thick heavy leather, or a 35mm film
        container (or similar item), securely fastened with filament tape. The tip
        shall be secured to the shaft with filament tape that completely covers the
        foam, then covered with yellow tape. The back end of the javelin (bolt) may
        have a short (less than 2" (5.1cm) in length) piece of PVC pipe (or other
        similar non-brittle, non-metallic, lightweight material), that is securely
        attached to reinforce this area. Javelins (bolts) must be stable in flight
        or have fletching made from flexible material to make them stable in
        flight. They must be at least 48" (122 cm) in length and clearly marked
        with yellow tape as outlined in section III.B. Note: 1/2 tennis balls may
        be attached to the foam tip to cover the striking surface as long as they
        are an integral part of the tip and there remains at least 1" (2.5cm) of
        progressive give after the 1/2 tennis ball is attached.
        As of January 1, 2008, Tennis ball tipped bolts are no longer legal for use.

        I am trying to see if there are any additional rule variations for the
        yellow covering on black pipe... haven't found anything yet.
        I believe the main thing is to leave at least one section of the standard
        printed on the pipe, visible to marshals.


        Taranach McLeod
        �thelmearc Siege Brigadier
        Shadowclans Eastern Outpost
        Creator of fantastic Sci-Fi and Medieval wonders
        "Melior morior in nostrum pedis quam inservio in nostrum genua."


        On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:02 AM, robin <OTRobin@...> wrote:

        > **
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > I am looking for the defining answer to whether the color or PSI used for
        > ballista bolts is the important factor.
        > I know the bolt has to be yellow but have been asked if black siloflex
        > material at 160PSI is used then covered with yellow duct tape would be
        > allowed to be used.
        >
        > There are two engines being built to be used at Pennsic and the crew is
        > getting anxious about building ammo. Securing yellow pipe has proved to be
        > near impossible in western NY. Help will be passed along, gratefully!
        >
        > Thank you,
        > Nivah
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Roderick McKraken
        Yes, ballista bolts made from 160 PSI irrigation tubing are allowed, but they come awfully close to the 16 oz limit for ballista bolts. Get a scale that can
        Message 3 of 4 , May 12, 2012
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          Yes, ballista bolts made from 160 PSI irrigation tubing are allowed, but
          they come awfully close to the 16 oz limit for ballista bolts. Get a scale
          that can weigh them accurately. You don't want to get to Pennsic and find
          out that your bolts are over-weight. They will be weighed by the marshals
          at Pennsic.

          If necessary, you can reduce the length of the shaft to 45 inches. With a
          foam tip that is 3 inches long (or more), the total length of the bolt will
          still be at least the minimum of 48 inches.

          Roderick

          -----Original Message-----
          From: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Taranach McLeod
          Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:52 AM
          To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] ammo question

          Black pipe *IS* allowed with the following specs... it is not specifically
          the PSI that matters but the material and manufacturing process.... these
          standards will be printed along the outside of the pipe...

          III.C.3. Siloflex must meet the following standards:

          For pipe that is black in color, it must be manufactured to ASTM D2239 or
          D2737; be made from PE3408; be sized 1”ID if D2239 or 1¼”OD if D2737; and
          have a SIDR rating of 15 or lower or have a SODR rating of 17 or lower.

          For pipe that is yellow in color, it must be manufactured to ASTM D2513;
          made from PE 2406; be 1”IPS; and have an SDR of 11. (Please note that
          shafts made from yellow Siloflex may not be covered with tape, and the
          markings must be visible.)

          III.E.2 :
          Ballista Javelins (bolts) - must have a shaft made from Siloflex or similar
          equivalent material (as per III.C.3). They must have a tip made with at
          least 3" (7.6cm) of resilient material between the end of the shaft and the
          striking surface, must be at least 2.5" (6.4cm) in diameter, and must have
          at least 1" (2.5 cm) of progressive give without bottoming out on the
          shaft. Additionally, the end of the shaft that the tip is secured to must
          be capped with a minimum of 1/8" (4mm) thick heavy leather, or a 35mm film
          container (or similar item), securely fastened with filament tape. The tip
          shall be secured to the shaft with filament tape that completely covers the
          foam, then covered with yellow tape. The back end of the javelin (bolt) may
          have a short (less than 2" (5.1cm) in length) piece of PVC pipe (or other
          similar non-brittle, non-metallic, lightweight material), that is securely
          attached to reinforce this area. Javelins (bolts) must be stable in flight
          or have fletching made from flexible material to make them stable in
          flight. They must be at least 48" (122 cm) in length and clearly marked
          with yellow tape as outlined in section III.B. Note: 1/2 tennis balls may
          be attached to the foam tip to cover the striking surface as long as they
          are an integral part of the tip and there remains at least 1" (2.5cm) of
          progressive give after the 1/2 tennis ball is attached.
          As of January 1, 2008, Tennis ball tipped bolts are no longer legal for use.

          I am trying to see if there are any additional rule variations for the
          yellow covering on black pipe... haven't found anything yet.
          I believe the main thing is to leave at least one section of the standard
          printed on the pipe, visible to marshals.


          Taranach McLeod
          Æthelmearc Siege Brigadier
          Shadowclans Eastern Outpost
          Creator of fantastic Sci-Fi and Medieval wonders
          "Melior morior in nostrum pedis quam inservio in nostrum genua."


          On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:02 AM, robin <OTRobin@...> wrote:

          > **
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I am looking for the defining answer to whether the color or PSI used for
          > ballista bolts is the important factor.
          > I know the bolt has to be yellow but have been asked if black siloflex
          > material at 160PSI is used then covered with yellow duct tape would be
          > allowed to be used.
          >
          > There are two engines being built to be used at Pennsic and the crew is
          > getting anxious about building ammo. Securing yellow pipe has proved to be
          > near impossible in western NY. Help will be passed along, gratefully!
          >
          > Thank you,
          > Nivah
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • Roderick McKraken
          You should be able to buy gas pipe for ballista bolt shafts from Master Jean Paul at: http://www.thesiegeshop.com ... From: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 4 , May 12, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            You should be able to buy gas pipe for ballista bolt shafts from Master Jean
            Paul at:

            http://www.thesiegeshop.com


            -----Original Message-----
            From: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Roderick McKraken
            Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 6:59 PM
            To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [SCA-Siege] ammo question

            Yes, ballista bolts made from 160 PSI irrigation tubing are allowed, but
            they come awfully close to the 16 oz limit for ballista bolts. Get a scale
            that can weigh them accurately. You don't want to get to Pennsic and find
            out that your bolts are over-weight. They will be weighed by the marshals
            at Pennsic.

            If necessary, you can reduce the length of the shaft to 45 inches. With a
            foam tip that is 3 inches long (or more), the total length of the bolt will
            still be at least the minimum of 48 inches.

            Roderick

            -----Original Message-----
            From: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Taranach McLeod
            Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:52 AM
            To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] ammo question

            Black pipe *IS* allowed with the following specs... it is not specifically
            the PSI that matters but the material and manufacturing process.... these
            standards will be printed along the outside of the pipe...

            III.C.3. Siloflex must meet the following standards:

            For pipe that is black in color, it must be manufactured to ASTM D2239 or
            D2737; be made from PE3408; be sized 1”ID if D2239 or 1¼”OD if D2737; and
            have a SIDR rating of 15 or lower or have a SODR rating of 17 or lower.

            For pipe that is yellow in color, it must be manufactured to ASTM D2513;
            made from PE 2406; be 1”IPS; and have an SDR of 11. (Please note that
            shafts made from yellow Siloflex may not be covered with tape, and the
            markings must be visible.)

            III.E.2 :
            Ballista Javelins (bolts) - must have a shaft made from Siloflex or similar
            equivalent material (as per III.C.3). They must have a tip made with at
            least 3" (7.6cm) of resilient material between the end of the shaft and the
            striking surface, must be at least 2.5" (6.4cm) in diameter, and must have
            at least 1" (2.5 cm) of progressive give without bottoming out on the
            shaft. Additionally, the end of the shaft that the tip is secured to must
            be capped with a minimum of 1/8" (4mm) thick heavy leather, or a 35mm film
            container (or similar item), securely fastened with filament tape. The tip
            shall be secured to the shaft with filament tape that completely covers the
            foam, then covered with yellow tape. The back end of the javelin (bolt) may
            have a short (less than 2" (5.1cm) in length) piece of PVC pipe (or other
            similar non-brittle, non-metallic, lightweight material), that is securely
            attached to reinforce this area. Javelins (bolts) must be stable in flight
            or have fletching made from flexible material to make them stable in
            flight. They must be at least 48" (122 cm) in length and clearly marked
            with yellow tape as outlined in section III.B. Note: 1/2 tennis balls may
            be attached to the foam tip to cover the striking surface as long as they
            are an integral part of the tip and there remains at least 1" (2.5cm) of
            progressive give after the 1/2 tennis ball is attached.
            As of January 1, 2008, Tennis ball tipped bolts are no longer legal for use.

            I am trying to see if there are any additional rule variations for the
            yellow covering on black pipe... haven't found anything yet.
            I believe the main thing is to leave at least one section of the standard
            printed on the pipe, visible to marshals.


            Taranach McLeod
            Æthelmearc Siege Brigadier
            Shadowclans Eastern Outpost
            Creator of fantastic Sci-Fi and Medieval wonders
            "Melior morior in nostrum pedis quam inservio in nostrum genua."


            On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:02 AM, robin <OTRobin@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            >
            > Hi,
            >
            > I am looking for the defining answer to whether the color or PSI used for
            > ballista bolts is the important factor.
            > I know the bolt has to be yellow but have been asked if black siloflex
            > material at 160PSI is used then covered with yellow duct tape would be
            > allowed to be used.
            >
            > There are two engines being built to be used at Pennsic and the crew is
            > getting anxious about building ammo. Securing yellow pipe has proved to be
            > near impossible in western NY. Help will be passed along, gratefully!
            >
            > Thank you,
            > Nivah
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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