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Re: [SCA-Siege] Re: Why no cannons?

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  • Siegfried
    A lovely writeup of the history of Cannon in SCA ... However I will clarify one section (at least, clarify to my own recollections at the ... B ... was true,
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 2 10:23 AM
      A lovely writeup of the history of Cannon in SCA ... However I will
      clarify one section (at least, clarify to my own recollections at the
      time):

      > A) No one has ever produced a safe mechanically powered cannon
      > B) We (The marshals in question) do not believe that a safe
      > mechanically powered cannon can be produced.
      > C) We (the marshals again) do not want to see cannon on the field

      B ... was true, they did not think one could be made. Then a call was
      put out to ask for designs to be created and submitted. IIRC a 1
      year period was given.

      During that time, if my memory serves, a number of cannon replicas
      were created, that in fact were deemed safe (or safe with minor
      requested changes) ... I know the Lochac's Water Cannon version was
      submitted, and offhand I know of a surgical tubing powered model that
      was made in Atlantia.

      These were deemed safe ( so A above was wrong ) ... However, C held true.

      That is to say, in the end, the decision was that cannons (and muskets
      and other such items) are not 'in the spirit' of what is attempting to
      be recreated on the heavy weapons field. Which is the 'height of
      chivalry'. When cannons and handcannons were in fact markers of the
      decline of chivalry.

      And therefore, that said items should live on the Rapier field only.

      Again, this is my probably faulty memory.

      Therefore, the problem is not 'coming up with a safe design' ... that
      has been done. The problem is in convincing the SCA, at large, that
      they WANT to see a cannon on the heavy battlefield.

      Siegfried

      --
      ________________________________________________________
      Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows.biz/
      Barony of Highland Foorde - Kingdom of Atlantia
      Society Combat Archery Marshal
    • James Peck
      Well said. Not to mention that for the bulk of the medieval period the SCA covers, cannon more often than not were used for siege and taking out castle walls,
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 2 10:31 AM
        Well said. Not to mention that for the bulk of the medieval period the SCA
        covers, cannon more often than not were used for siege and taking out castle
        walls, gates or other fortifications, not used all that often or all that
        effectively as anti-personnel devices. And the bulk of those wanting to use
        cannon's in the SCA, seemed to want to use them as rapid reload anti
        personnel devices. Especially shooting at masses of fighters and shield
        walls. So given the apparent intent of many of the users, it did not fit in
        well with the common perception of what SCA melee/battle is generally
        intended to represent. Even though yes, toward the end of the SCA period
        cannon start to be used more against troops than they were during the bulk
        of the timeframe considered the golden age of chivalry.



        Richard Blackmoore



        _____

        From: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Siegfried
        Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:23 PM
        To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Re: Why no cannons?



        A lovely writeup of the history of Cannon in SCA ... However I will
        clarify one section (at least, clarify to my own recollections at the
        time):

        > A) No one has ever produced a safe mechanically powered cannon
        > B) We (The marshals in question) do not believe that a safe
        > mechanically powered cannon can be produced.
        > C) We (the marshals again) do not want to see cannon on the field

        B ... was true, they did not think one could be made. Then a call was
        put out to ask for designs to be created and submitted. IIRC a 1
        year period was given.

        During that time, if my memory serves, a number of cannon replicas
        were created, that in fact were deemed safe (or safe with minor
        requested changes) ... I know the Lochac's Water Cannon version was
        submitted, and offhand I know of a surgical tubing powered model that
        was made in Atlantia.

        These were deemed safe ( so A above was wrong ) ... However, C held true.

        That is to say, in the end, the decision was that cannons (and muskets
        and other such items) are not 'in the spirit' of what is attempting to
        be recreated on the heavy weapons field. Which is the 'height of
        chivalry'. When cannons and handcannons were in fact markers of the
        decline of chivalry.

        And therefore, that said items should live on the Rapier field only.

        Again, this is my probably faulty memory.

        Therefore, the problem is not 'coming up with a safe design' ... that
        has been done. The problem is in convincing the SCA, at large, that
        they WANT to see a cannon on the heavy battlefield.

        Siegfried

        --
        ________________________________________________________
        Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows. <http://crossbows.biz/> biz/
        Barony of Highland Foorde - Kingdom of Atlantia
        Society Combat Archery Marshal





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jack Needles
        Hmm... makes me wonder about a compressed air cannon, like the ones they use to shoot T-shirts into the stands at hockey games.. Malachai ... [Non-text
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 14 7:35 AM
          Hmm... makes me wonder about a compressed air cannon, like the ones they use
          to shoot T-shirts into the stands at hockey games..

          Malachai

          On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 1:31 PM, James Peck <theregent1@...> wrote:

          > Well said. Not to mention that for the bulk of the medieval period the
          > SCA
          > covers, cannon more often than not were used for siege and taking out
          > castle
          > walls, gates or other fortifications, not used all that often or all that
          > effectively as anti-personnel devices. And the bulk of those wanting to use
          > cannon's in the SCA, seemed to want to use them as rapid reload anti
          > personnel devices. Especially shooting at masses of fighters and shield
          > walls. So given the apparent intent of many of the users, it did not fit in
          > well with the common perception of what SCA melee/battle is generally
          > intended to represent. Even though yes, toward the end of the SCA period
          > cannon start to be used more against troops than they were during the bulk
          > of the timeframe considered the golden age of chivalry.
          >
          > Richard Blackmoore
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com <SCA-Siege%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
          > SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com <SCA-Siege%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
          > Of Siegfried
          > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:23 PM
          > To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com <SCA-Siege%40yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Re: Why no cannons?
          >
          >
          > A lovely writeup of the history of Cannon in SCA ... However I will
          > clarify one section (at least, clarify to my own recollections at the
          > time):
          >
          > > A) No one has ever produced a safe mechanically powered cannon
          > > B) We (The marshals in question) do not believe that a safe
          > > mechanically powered cannon can be produced.
          > > C) We (the marshals again) do not want to see cannon on the field
          >
          > B ... was true, they did not think one could be made. Then a call was
          > put out to ask for designs to be created and submitted. IIRC a 1
          > year period was given.
          >
          > During that time, if my memory serves, a number of cannon replicas
          > were created, that in fact were deemed safe (or safe with minor
          > requested changes) ... I know the Lochac's Water Cannon version was
          > submitted, and offhand I know of a surgical tubing powered model that
          > was made in Atlantia.
          >
          > These were deemed safe ( so A above was wrong ) ... However, C held true.
          >
          > That is to say, in the end, the decision was that cannons (and muskets
          > and other such items) are not 'in the spirit' of what is attempting to
          > be recreated on the heavy weapons field. Which is the 'height of
          > chivalry'. When cannons and handcannons were in fact markers of the
          > decline of chivalry.
          >
          > And therefore, that said items should live on the Rapier field only.
          >
          > Again, this is my probably faulty memory.
          >
          > Therefore, the problem is not 'coming up with a safe design' ... that
          > has been done. The problem is in convincing the SCA, at large, that
          > they WANT to see a cannon on the heavy battlefield.
          >
          > Siegfried
          >
          > --
          > ________________________________________________________
          > Siegfried Sebastian Faust - http://crossbows. <http://crossbows.biz/> biz/
          > Barony of Highland Foorde - Kingdom of Atlantia
          > Society Combat Archery Marshal
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mark
          The use of compressed or ignited gasses has been banned for even longer than cannons. Quinn ... From: Jack Needles To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com Sent:
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 14 7:57 AM
            The use of compressed or ignited gasses has been banned for even longer
            than cannons.
            Quinn

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jack Needles
            To: SCA-Siege@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 7:35 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Siege] Re: Why no cannons?


            Hmm... makes me wonder about a compressed air cannon, like the ones they use
            to shoot T-shirts into the stands at hockey games..

            Malachai
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