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Re: [SCA-Milliners] MOL text/Making Medieval Hats

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  • Leah Lloyd
    *Chuckle* I ll do what I can with the husband blaring Moonraker (of all things!) next to me.... ... The above was edited for relevant content - (having
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 2, 2000
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      *Chuckle* I'll do what I can with the husband blaring "Moonraker" (of all
      things!) next to me....

      > Museum of London _Dress Accessories_ p.295, figure 195 "Silk-covered,
      > copper alloy wire headdress frame with traces of a silk veil. #1461
      > (1:1)" Further description p. 296: "Copper alloy wire bent into the
      > form of a double circle and hooked at one end, terminating in a
      > point.
      > Covered with unthrown silk thread onto which foundation a series of
      > coiled spiral loops made from twisted silk covered wire are bound
      > with silk. Silk veil stitched to wire with thread of two-ply silk; d
      > [diameter?] of wire 1mm; surviving l [length?] 570mm."
      >
      > Unthrown silk was bound round the wire in at least 11
      > examples (#s. 1455-65) all from a late 14th century deposit where
      > conditions of preservation were exceptionally good compared with
      > elsewhere in the city. Onto this wire foundation finer and more
      > flexible silk-covered wires were applied.
      > Another silk-covered
      > wire frame, which is made from copper alloy rather than iron,
      > preserves
      > traces of a silk veil stitched to the frame (#1461, fig 195.) This
      > veil is tabby woven from Z twisted thread and its open texture means
      > that it would have been semi-transparent.

      The above was edited for relevant content - (having specifically to do
      with the illustrated example)

      > The picture of #1461 says it's reproduced at 1:1 scale, thus "life
      > size" in the book. It's roughly what you would get if you wrapped a
      piece
      > of wire around the muscle of your arm below the elbow, twice; about 3"
      > in diameter, and then squashed sideways so the spiral is flat.

      This is also slightly larger than the size of an ear, so it would cover
      up those unsightly extremities, while allowing some slack for attaching
      to a headband or other support.

      The two
      > ends are free, and I can't tell if it is fastened to itself along its
      > length at the top of the two loops, or not.

      By this do you mean the free ends connecting to themselves (or each
      other)? One thought is that the raw end of the wire originally had a loop
      on it's end, (since broken off) and that the wire loops were used to
      fasten to themselves/each other. Another possibility is that the hooks
      were slightly more open, and attached directly onto the crossing wire,
      but I find that less likely. There would be more evidence of wear on the
      crossing wire, and the xerox of a photograph (gotta love that for
      reference!) does not indicate such. Rather, there is no silk thread on
      either end, and no wear indicated at the possible looping point of the
      crossing wire.

      The "coiled spiral > loops"
      > give the effect of having tiny chenille loops on one side of the
      > wire --> sorta like a fringe attached to the wire, but it's so short
      and
      > dense,
      > it's more like some kind of macrame loop. Apparently onto these
      > loops,
      > the veil was sewn, presumably along the whole length; which would be
      > odd, because if this is the true shape, you'd get almost a tube of
      > veiling attached to a double bracelet of wire effect.

      My thought is that instead of having buckram and wire screening ;) and
      such to make their headdreses out of, adding on the knowledge that they
      (or the makers) had much more free time available to do such intensive
      handwork, that the spiral thread loops are there to sew the fabric cover
      *on* to, as an anchor. Threaded needles could pierce the fabric, go
      around the wire frame and be virtually assured of passing through a given
      spiral loop (and we all do hand-sewing so we all know the difference
      between going through layers and not) and then coming through the other
      side of the fabric cover. This would anchor the fabric while at the same
      time giving it shape and tension.

      Additionally, having the silk thread wrapping around the copper wire, you
      don't have to line the caul to keep from getting green ears....

      I don't know what to say about the silk veiling without any other fabric
      or thread traces.

      > [Note: If there's an MOL book on hats, I haven't heard of it yet.]

      One can always hope!

      > Danabren, could you describe the ram's horn use of wire like this?
      > I'm
      > short in the imagining department tonight, and you're much more
      > familiar with the style than I am.

      Again, turn it 180 degrees. The hooks would be underneath, if for no
      other reason that looped metal would create a lump, and who wants that?
      One end of the spiral is placed against an ear. The entire frame is
      covered in fabric, basically becoming a short tube, open on one flat end
      (ear). Depending upon the size of the wearer, and the extremity of
      fashion at the time, the caul is either demure, just enough to cover the
      hair and ear, or larger, the start of the grander styles which eventually
      evolved into the grandiose heart-shaped hennins of the 15th C

      *Phew*! It's 11pm and I'm going to bed now. Is there anyone else who has
      any opinions or suggestions on this subject besides we three Easterners?
      Danabren
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    • EHW
      On 2 Oct 2000, at 23:06, Leah Lloyd wrote: d ... I really WANT this book... anyone have a copy for sale or know where I can get one? ... I don t know you guys
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 3, 2000
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        On 2 Oct 2000, at 23:06, Leah Lloyd wrote:
        d
        > > Museum of London _Dress Accessories_

        I really WANT this book... anyone have a copy for sale or know
        where I can get one?
        >
        > *Phew*! It's 11pm and I'm going to bed now. Is there anyone else who
        > has any opinions or suggestions on this subject besides we three
        > Easterners? Danabren

        I don't know you guys are doing amazing things online. The force
        is with you... or is it Q? Moonraker not withstanding ... wow I am
        keeping all these posts.
      • Cynthia Virtue
        ... Yeah, I could see that. But there s already a layer of silk on the wire, so the loops are another layer. ... Okey, maybe my problem is a terminology one.
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 3, 2000
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          Leah Lloyd wrote:
          > > the veil was sewn, presumably along the whole length; which would be
          > > odd, because if this is the true shape, you'd get almost a tube of
          > > veiling attached to a double bracelet of wire effect.
          >
          > My thought is that instead of having buckram and wire screening ;) and
          > such to make their headdreses out of, adding on the knowledge that they
          > (or the makers) had much more free time available to do such intensive
          > handwork, that the spiral thread loops are there to sew the fabric cover
          > *on* to, as an anchor.

          Yeah, I could see that. But there's already a layer of silk on the wire,
          so the loops are another layer.

          > > Danabren, could you describe the ram's horn use of wire like this?
          > > I'm short in the imagining department tonight, and you're much more
          > > familiar with the style than I am.
          >
          > Again, turn it 180 degrees. The hooks would be underneath, if for no
          > other reason that looped metal would create a lump, and who wants that?
          > One end of the spiral is placed against an ear. The entire frame is
          > covered in fabric, basically becoming a short tube, open on one flat end
          > (ear). Depending upon the size of the wearer, and the extremity of
          > fashion at the time, the caul is either demure, just enough to cover the
          > hair and ear, or larger, the start of the grander styles which eventually
          > evolved into the grandiose heart-shaped hennins of the 15th C

          Okey, maybe my problem is a terminology one. I think of "ram's horn"
          headress as the ponytails wrapped with fabric and then coiled into flat
          Danish Pastry arrangements on each side of the head. I think I'd call
          what you describe here as simply "horn shaped" since there isn't any
          visible spiraling of the hair. Or, if it was the flatter lumps (a la
          the princess in Braveheart) I don't have a good name for that style --
          every book has their own term, it seems.

          At any rate, now that you've explained, I feel very happy, as it's
          another possible bit of info in the "sometimes what we see in the horns
          is the surface of fabric, with possible fake hair or other support
          behind it" theory. A theory that I'm fond of, but one never knows.

          --
          Cynthia du Pré Argent
          "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet LXXXI
          "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
        • Leah Lloyd
          ... I usually refer to those as Princess Leia Buns , if they are flat and round. Ram s Horns when they are small cauls, anywhere in size from baby s fists
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 3, 2000
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            > Okey, maybe my problem is a terminology one. I think of "ram's horn"
            > headress as the ponytails wrapped with fabric and then coiled into
            > flat Danish Pastry arrangements on each side of the head.

            I usually refer to those as "Princess Leia Buns", if they are flat and
            round. "Ram's Horns" when they are small cauls, anywhere in size from
            baby's fists to canteloupes. "Moose Ears" when the cauls are at their
            horizontal size apex. "Puppy Ears" when the hair is braided from above
            the temple, dropping down to jaw level and then folding back up (usually
            worn with cotehardies). "Coin Holders" or "Airplane Streeling Wheel"
            (courtesy of friends) when vertical tubular cauls are worn around the
            puppy ears. Any basic knob shape made up exclusively of hair is also a
            "horn", but much less amusing for both the wearer and their friends :)

            I think I'd call
            > what you describe here as simply "horn shaped" since there isn't any
            > visible spiraling of the hair. Or, if it was the flatter lumps (a la
            > the princess in Braveheart)

            ARRRRRRGH!!!!! (sorry, personal candy-coloured button)

            I don't have a good name for that style
            > -- every book has their own term, it seems.

            And every milliner! :)

            Danabren
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