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Re: [SCA-Milliners] Re: Hennins

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  • danabren@juno.com
    ... The easiest way to get around this is to pick out the painting you want to copy - that way you can make the dress and the hat and everyone around you will
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 5, 2002
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      > Part of the problem is that I am not sure which of the hats I want
      > to wear.

      The easiest way to get around this is to pick out the painting you want
      to copy - that way you can make the dress and the hat and everyone around
      you will say "*gasp* You look just like......!" (which is absolutely the
      best feeling in the world!) :)

      I KNOW without a doubt that if I tried to wear a henin,
      > someone would lose an eye...

      Hmmm....an honest question - are you very short? I had a wide "moose-ear"
      hennin and because I'm quite tall I tended to either sweep majestically
      OVER people's heads or I'd whomp 'em quite neatly in the side of the head
      (ask Duke Gregor how many times I tagged him one Twelfth Night LOL) which
      would did as much damage to me as it did to them :) And I've certainly
      played "bullfighter" with my Christine de pisan double-horned hennin on
      more than one occasion.....

      so no to that. I like the truncated
      > henin, but am worried about keeping it on. I look for baskets to use
      > as a base when I think of it.. no luck so far. Has anyone tried
      > plastic canvas or anything like that?

      I haven't been able to find baskets like Cynthia suggested either, so I
      purchased a cheap panama hat ($3) and after trimming off the brim and the
      top of the crown, I edged it with seam binding. Then I used buckram to
      create a form outside of that to add strenth, length, and change the
      angle (stuffed the difference with polyfil) What's left catches just
      enough on my hair (plus my bun piled up through the hole in the top helps
      too) that I don't need pins or combs for a butterfly hennin.

      > I am greatly enamored of the idea of doing the templars heartshaped
      > hat thingie with the caul embroidered etc, but fear the reality will
      > be far different than the vision.

      This can work with a soft fabric skullcap as a base. It's better to use
      the skullcap bases for hats like the lady wears in the portrait of St.
      Elegius, with something more sturdy for a hennin that will include a
      roundele, but it should still be fine.

      > I think with your help I might actually do this!

      And then we'll all need to see pictures!

      Danabren

      ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
      I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you
      want to annoy for the rest of your life.

      ________________________________________________________________
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    • Cynthia Virtue
      ... Hmm. Think cachepots (things to hide plants in) and trash baskets. The cheap hat solution is a good one. Another solution might be placemats made out
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 5, 2002
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        danabren@... wrote:
        > I haven't been able to find baskets like Cynthia suggested either,

        Hmm. Think "cachepots" (things to hide plants in) and trash baskets.
        The cheap hat solution is a good one. Another solution might be
        placemats made out of woven grassy stuff, then cut 'em (that's if you
        want to try natural materials.) Plastic canvas should work well also.


        --
        Cynthia Virtue and/or
        Cynthia du Pré Argent

        "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
        "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
      • lhaff@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/5/02 10:58:14 AM Mountain Standard Time, danabren@juno.com writes:
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 6, 2002
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          In a message dated 12/5/02 10:58:14 AM Mountain Standard Time,
          danabren@... writes:

          << I like the truncated
          > henin, but am worried about keeping it on. I look for baskets to use
          > as a base when I think of it.. no luck so far. Has anyone tried
          > plastic canvas or anything like that?
          >>

          I used buckram with wire edges for the form. Be sure to make it big enough
          to allow for several thicknesses of fabric and wire at the bottom. The loop
          you see in the paintings is what keeps it on.

          1. Put a strand of wire around the bottom of the buckram form. I use a
          button hole stitch to attach the wire.

          2. Take another piece of wire long enough to go all the way around the
          bottom, bending it into the loop shape in the middle of the wire.

          3. Cover the loop with black fabric or wrap ribbon around it.

          4. Sew on securely with heavy thread to the bottom of the frame just below
          the first wire. Try to sew them together through the buckram for extra
          stability. Try it on and bend the loop backwards or forwards until the hat
          feels like it will sit securely on your head and sit at the angle you want.

          5. Cover the frame with your fabric. You will need to cut 2 slits to
          accommodate the loop. The other option is to cover the entire loop wire with
          black fabric, leaving a seam allowance on the main part of the wire but
          hiding the raw edges on the loop. This is sewn on after the fabric is on the
          frame. Sew it as close to the wire as possible for stability. You will need
          to use a thread color that matches the outer fabric. I use a small running
          stitch for this.

          Whichever method you use, remember that the loop should be part of a wire
          that goes all the way around or it won't hold the hat on. The tighter the
          wire is sewn to the frame the better. I've made a fall to go with it that I
          love. As soon as the holidays are over, I will get a friend with a digital
          camera and take a picture of me in it.

          Hope this makes some sense. (-:

          Beatricia
        • Juliane de Vivonne
          ... No.. just prone to being a klutz. ;-) I am about 5 6 I like the idea about finding a painting and making the gown and hat. I had been thinking about this
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 6, 2002
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            --- In SCA-Milliners@y..., danabren@j... wrote:

            > >I KNOW without a doubt that if I tried to wear a henin,
            > > someone would lose an eye...
            >
            > Hmmm....an honest question - are you very short?

            No.. just prone to being a klutz. ;-) I am about 5'6"

            I like the idea about finding a painting and making the gown and
            hat. I had been thinking about this already and have a few in mind.
            I will keep you posted. Thanks!
          • constancewilkicke
            I need to make two, maybe three hennins. One is the truncated style, one is the horned style the other would be the cone (dunce cap)style. I normally do
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 26, 2010
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              I need to make two, maybe three hennins. One is the truncated style, one is the horned style the other would be the cone (dunce cap)style. I normally do Elizabethan, so this is outside my range of knowledge. I'm having a hard time finding "how-to" articles online. Lots of pretty pictures of fininshed hats, but I need instructions! Please advise...

              YIS,
              Constance
            • Hannah Hennen
              Here are several links I dug up. I was going to do a Burgundian outfit for Gulf Wars this past spring, but procrastination and laziness got the better of me...
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                Here are several links I dug up. I was going to do a Burgundian outfit for
                Gulf Wars this past spring, but procrastination and laziness got the better
                of me... It was down to the cuffs and the belt... Maybe next year. But I
                digress....

                http://www.wingeo.com/patterns/700series/patrn704.jpg

                I used this link as a reference for my gown, but it has a lot of information
                for all parts of the outfit.
                http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/green-burgundian.html

                Here's a how to I just found.
                http://www.torps.net/lena/medeltid/henin_how_to_makeattach_and_wear.htm

                I hope at least one of these links can help you in your quest.

                Sincerely,

                Elsbet O'Donnell
                (mka Beth Hennen)

                On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 11:02 AM, constancewilkicke <constancewsca@...
                > wrote:

                >
                >
                > I need to make two, maybe three hennins. One is the truncated style, one is
                > the horned style the other would be the cone (dunce cap)style. I normally do
                > Elizabethan, so this is outside my range of knowledge. I'm having a hard
                > time finding "how-to" articles online. Lots of pretty pictures of fininshed
                > hats, but I need instructions! Please advise...
                >
                > YIS,
                > Constance
                >
                >
                >



                --
                Hey, number 42... The Chicken has left the coop. I repeat, the Chicken has
                left the coop. GO! GO! GO!


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cynthia Virtue
                Hi! I have some articles I wrote a few years back, which have been likely superceded by other folks, but they might be useful. They start halfway down the
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                  Hi!

                  I have some articles I wrote a few years back, which have been likely
                  superceded by other folks, but they might be useful. They start halfway
                  down the first screenful on this page:

                  http://www.virtue.to/articles/

                  Under "Complex Women's Hats "

                  How to make a Reticulated Headdress - Women's fancy wireframe
                  construction. Fairly advanced.

                  My second fancy wireframe; heart-shaped.

                  Arnolfini headdress, Truncated-cone henins, butterfly henins and
                  other information about semi-rigid headresses and the veils that go with
                  them.

                  Butterfly Hat construction basics - for the relatively new costumer.

                  Hat construction materials: theories

                  The Little Black Band -- a possible method of keeping these hats
                  attached.

                  The Last Straw -- and the Last Dryer Vent -- using rigid materials
                  for hats; men's & women's



                  --

                  Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent


                  "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81

                  "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                • Anetika Roller
                  Thanks, both of you. I have much to read... Constance ... -- I am my father s daughter, and I am not afraid of anything -Queens Elizabeth I and II [Non-text
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                    Thanks, both of you. I have much to read...

                    Constance

                    On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...>wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Hi!
                    >
                    > I have some articles I wrote a few years back, which have been likely
                    > superceded by other folks, but they might be useful. They start halfway
                    > down the first screenful on this page:
                    >
                    > http://www.virtue.to/articles/
                    >
                    > Under "Complex Women's Hats "
                    >
                    > How to make a Reticulated Headdress - Women's fancy wireframe
                    > construction. Fairly advanced.
                    >
                    > My second fancy wireframe; heart-shaped.
                    >
                    > Arnolfini headdress, Truncated-cone henins, butterfly henins and
                    > other information about semi-rigid headresses and the veils that go with
                    > them.
                    >
                    > Butterfly Hat construction basics - for the relatively new costumer.
                    >
                    > Hat construction materials: theories
                    >
                    > The Little Black Band -- a possible method of keeping these hats
                    > attached.
                    >
                    > The Last Straw -- and the Last Dryer Vent -- using rigid materials
                    > for hats; men's & women's
                    >
                    > --
                    >
                    > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                    >
                    > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                    >
                    > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    "I am my father's daughter, and I am not afraid of anything"

                    -Queens Elizabeth I and II


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Hannah Hennen
                    No problem. :) Elsbet ... -- Hey, number 42... The Chicken has left the coop. I repeat, the Chicken has left the coop. GO! GO! GO! [Non-text portions of this
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                      No problem. :)

                      Elsbet

                      On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Anetika Roller <constancewsca@...>wrote:

                      > Thanks, both of you. I have much to read...
                      >
                      > Constance
                      >
                      > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:16 AM, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...
                      > >wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Hi!
                      > >
                      > > I have some articles I wrote a few years back, which have been likely
                      > > superceded by other folks, but they might be useful. They start halfway
                      > > down the first screenful on this page:
                      > >
                      > > http://www.virtue.to/articles/
                      > >
                      > > Under "Complex Women's Hats "
                      > >
                      > > How to make a Reticulated Headdress - Women's fancy wireframe
                      > > construction. Fairly advanced.
                      > >
                      > > My second fancy wireframe; heart-shaped.
                      > >
                      > > Arnolfini headdress, Truncated-cone henins, butterfly henins and
                      > > other information about semi-rigid headresses and the veils that go with
                      > > them.
                      > >
                      > > Butterfly Hat construction basics - for the relatively new costumer.
                      > >
                      > > Hat construction materials: theories
                      > >
                      > > The Little Black Band -- a possible method of keeping these hats
                      > > attached.
                      > >
                      > > The Last Straw -- and the Last Dryer Vent -- using rigid materials
                      > > for hats; men's & women's
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > >
                      > > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                      > >
                      > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                      > >
                      > > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > "I am my father's daughter, and I am not afraid of anything"
                      >
                      > -Queens Elizabeth I and II
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
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                      > Shortcut URL to this page:
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                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      Hey, number 42... The Chicken has left the coop. I repeat, the Chicken has
                      left the coop. GO! GO! GO!


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Yvianne
                      Most of my hats involve getting out a pile of supplies and trial and error until I have a reasonable reconstruction of the look I m after. Here s what I can
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                        Most of my hats involve getting out a pile of supplies and trial and error
                        until I have a reasonable reconstruction of the look I'm after.

                        Here's what I can tell you about the hennins I have made.

                        The truncated hennin was the 3rd hat I ever made. I was not happy with how
                        fragile my previous hats had been (milliners wire and buckram) so I set out
                        to make something as indestructible as possible. I built the frame from wire
                        coat hangers and duct tape. Instead of attaching buckram to it, I used metal
                        window screen. Then I covered it with black velvet. It was exactly what I
                        wanted. It looks great, is lightweight but no worries about it getting
                        dented or crushed in travel. It gets banged up pretty good sometimes, but I
                        can reshape it with my hands in a few seconds and it looks good as new. I
                        can even wear it outside in the rain :-)

                        I used 2 cornucopia baskets as the foundation of the horned hennin. I wired
                        them together, covered them with batting then lightweight fabric. It looks
                        nice but it is very heavy and sounds are muffled when I wear it. If I were
                        to do it again, I would use the baskets as a form, cover them with plastic
                        wrap and create the base for my headpiece out of hide glue stiffened linen.

                        I've never made the long cone hennin, but if I were to tackle that one now,
                        I'd probably come at it from a more period angle. There is an extant base
                        for bishop's mitre that is made out of used vellum (you can still read the
                        calligraphy and see the holes where the fabric and embellishments had been
                        attached) This would be my starting point. As a vellum maker, the cost to
                        me would be minimal, but it could get a bit expensive if you had to buy that
                        much vellum on the open market. Maybe window screen would work for that as
                        well as it did for the truncated hennin?

                        So far as patterns, if you have trouble starting from just a picture, most
                        libraries have theatrical or Halloween costume books that will give you a
                        good starting point ... but make sure you do a test hat out of heavy paper
                        or poster board and get the shape and fit right from the beginning. There's
                        nothing more frustrating than putting hours of work into a hat, having it
                        come out beautiful, then not being able to wear it because it doesn't fit.

                        Hope this helps.

                        Regards,
                        Yvianne de Castel d'Avignon
                        AEthelmearc

                        --------------------------------------------------
                        From: "constancewilkicke" <constancewsca@...>
                        Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 12:02 PM
                        To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
                        Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Hennins

                        > I need to make two, maybe three hennins. One is the truncated style, one
                        > is the horned style the other would be the cone (dunce cap)style. I
                        > normally do Elizabethan, so this is outside my range of knowledge. I'm
                        > having a hard time finding "how-to" articles online. Lots of pretty
                        > pictures of fininshed hats, but I need instructions! Please advise...
                        >
                        > YIS,
                        > Constance
                      • Julie
                        ... Try Cynthia Virtue s site for starts: http://www.virtue.to/articles/arnolfini.html Julie
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                          > I need to make two, maybe three hennins. One is the truncated style, one is the horned style the other would be the cone (dunce cap)style. I normally do Elizabethan, so this is outside my range of knowledge. I'm having a hard time finding "how-to" articles online. Lots of pretty pictures of fininshed hats, but I need instructions! Please advise...
                          >
                          > YIS,
                          > Constance

                          Try Cynthia Virtue's site for starts:
                          http://www.virtue.to/articles/arnolfini.html

                          Julie
                        • Hannah Hennen
                          P.S. I cheated and used a plastic canvas as a base for the truncated style. I covered it in buckram and then fabric. It did a decent job. The buckram gave the
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                            P.S. I cheated and used a plastic canvas as a base for the truncated style.
                            I covered it in buckram and then fabric. It did a decent job. The buckram
                            gave the fabric a good anchor.

                            Elsbet


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Salli Weston, Scott Theisen
                            Here s my method for helping people get a taper that they are happy with. Cut a piece of cardboard the diameter of your head and the height you think you want
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 27, 2010
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                              Here's my method for helping people get a taper that they are happy with.
                              Cut a piece of cardboard the diameter of your head and the height you think
                              you want the hat to be. Cut 8 equally spaced slits from the top to ~1/2"
                              from head opening. Use painters tape or another easily repostionable tape
                              to overlap the strips evenly at the top to make a taper you are happy with.
                              Keep fussing until you get it right. Cut open and remove the over lap on
                              the "back" section. Lay flat and tract to form a smooth line. Add seam
                              allowances on necessary for you material and use that as your pattern. I'm
                              also a plastic canvas fan but don't cover it w/ buckram. Mine have been sat
                              on a popped back into shape.

                              Petranella


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • contarina
                              hi all, i make my hennins with a base of leather (which laces together so it can travel flat) with a velevet cover that hooks and eyes onto the leather base
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 28, 2010
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                                hi all,

                                i make my hennins with a base of leather (which laces together so it can travel flat) with a velevet cover that hooks and eyes onto the leather base (which means you can have different colour outers and even embroidered one). a link to one on my website is hear:
                                http://www.aandcsmalluxuries.com.au/hennin.html
                                the leather is light enough to wear all day and it folds flat for transporting. the filet underneath i make out of veleveteen with the pile of the velevet running the opposite direction to your hair so that it holds fast and the loop in metal (coat-hanger works well) and cover it in blanket stitch in silk thread or topstitching thread. the combination of the veleveteen filet and the hennin cover (in velveteen) acts like they are velcroed together and won't move. the best thing about this method is that you can pattern it in cardboard first and know the fit will be pretty good.

                                it seems to have that slight dip in it without having to make too many changes.

                                if you want more information about this feel freeto email me at contarina@...

                                vale
                                contarina la bianca ol
                                baroness of riverhaven

                                --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "constancewilkicke" <constancewsca@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I need to make two, maybe three hennins. One is the truncated style, one is the horned style the other would be the cone (dunce cap)style. I normally do Elizabethan, so this is outside my range of knowledge. I'm having a hard time finding "how-to" articles online. Lots of pretty pictures of fininshed hats, but I need instructions! Please advise...
                                >
                                > YIS,
                                > Constance
                                >
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