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Re: [SCA-Milliners] dagging

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  • Katherine Barich
    ... From: andovere@netscape.net Reply-To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:07:18 -0400 ... hoods and a houppe with dags. Your method
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 14, 2002
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      ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
      From: andovere@...
      Reply-To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:07:18 -0400

      ><html><body>
      >
      >
      ><tt>
      >I'm sorry if this is way off topic. I'm going to be doing two
      hoods and a houppe with dags. Your method sounds interesting. Is
      there somewhere that I can learn this stitch? Thanks.<BR>
      ><BR>
      >Thyre<BR>

      Marquesa Laurellin's webpage:

      http://www.vertetsable.com/easybody.htm#prick

      shows a prick stitch, but it isn't the stitch I use. I use a
      variant of the stitch shown above it - the overhand type of hemming
      stitch but executed in tiny stitches, or a variant of the blind hem
      stitch shown. It's really quite simple, just take a few pieces of
      fabric and practice - try for making the stitches small enough just
      to barely be seen.

      PS. Lots of good info on Laurellin's page on several topics -
      worth a good look if you have never been to the Renaissance Tailor
      site.

      Katherine



      ><BR>
      >"Katherine Barich" <wheezul@...> wrote:<BR>
      ><BR>
      >><BR>
      >>I have hated to line garments for soooooo long, that I think
      I<BR>
      >>have finally learned to master this beast.<BR>
      >><BR>
      >>The last liripipe hood I made, although it wasn't dagged, had
      the<BR>
      >>lining 'pricked in' which is at least an Elizabethan method
      of<BR>
      >>lining.<BR>
      >><BR>
      >>Instead of laying the fabrics right side together, sewing,<BR>
      >>clipping, turning and pressing the garment, the lining is
      handsewn<BR>
      >>to the outer fabric with tiny almost invisible overhand
      stitches<BR>
      >>(prick stitch), while turning the edges in as you go after<BR>
      >>preliminary pinning.  Usually a 1/16" to 1/8" egde of the
      outer<BR>
      >>fabric shows on the inside which is achieved by pulling the
      lining<BR>
      >>up a little further than the outer fabric. This means your
      lining<BR>
      >>won't show on the outside!  Some people can achieve this by<BR>
      >>cutting the lining a wee bit smaller than the outside fabric,
      but<BR>
      >>I personally find it difficult achieve as nice a finish using
      a<BR>
      >>machine - could be just me though. I know you could finish
      dags<BR>
      >>with narrow pieces this way without having to worry about<BR>
      >>turnings.  I use this method almost exclusively now, the
      extra<BR>
      >>time it takes generally is made up for in satisfaction of
      near<BR>
      >>perfection and not having to tear the whole darn thing back
      apart<BR>
      >>(again).  There is a certain zen to this method, and I really
      like<BR>
      >>to stand back and admire the beauty of the finish work.  It
      is<BR>
      >>considered a couture finish.<BR>
      >><BR>
      >>I think the most important watch point in any lining
      undertaking<BR>
      >>is accurate cutting.  I now cut one piece and cut the other
      piece<BR>
      >>using the already cut piece as a pattern, using the iron to
      help,<BR>
      >>if fabric allows (i.e. velvets can be tricky).<BR>
      >><BR>
      >>You can now stone me for obsession, but I must admit I have
      done<BR>
      >>some elaborate slashed sleeves and bodices although haven't
      been<BR>
      >>so crazy as to do a full dagged houppelande.<BR>
      >><BR>
      >>Katherine<BR>
      >><BR>
      >><BR>
      ><BR>
      ><BR>
      ><BR>
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    • Bella
      ... I use a variant of the stitch shown above it - the overhand type of hemming stitch but executed in tiny stitches, or a variant of the blind hem
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 14, 2002
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        --- Katherine Barich <wheezul@...> wrote:

        <snipped> I use a variant of the stitch shown above it
        - the overhand type of hemming stitch but executed in
        tiny stitches, or a variant of the blind hem stitch
        shown. It's really quite simple, just take a few
        pieces of fabric and practice - try for making the
        stitches small enough just to barely be seen.<<<<<


        That's the same method I use - my mother, who was a
        professional seamstress, showed me how to do it and it
        works a treat. so far I've only used it to sew down
        linings on a bodice.





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      • Melanie
        ... you can t bear wool and the look is sufficient, heathery polartec.) You just cut them ... Thanks for all the great advice!! I like the no sewing
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 15, 2002
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          >Also, for sinfully easy dags, use fulled wool (or if
          you >can't bear wool and the "look" is sufficient,
          heathery >polartec.) You just cut them
          >dags out any old way you please; no hemming, no edge
          >treatments, no long hours at the sewing machine.

          Thanks for all the great advice!! I like the 'no
          sewing dags' idea a LOT!(:

          ~Dionysia

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        • Cindy Myers
          Well, I was really inspired by Katherine s description of pricking in the lining of garments, and the possibility that this could be applied to dags. I
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 2, 2002
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            Well, I was really inspired by Katherine's description of 'pricking'
            in the lining of garments, and the possibility that this could be
            applied to dags.

            I hadn't at the time ever made anything with dags...

            True "inspiration" came when my apprentice brother was put on vigil
            and my master declared that "we" would make a set of clothes for him
            from the skin out. As a huntsman and falconer, he wanted to look
            like the falconer from the Devonshire tapestries (which only shows a
            view from the back!). To the ensemble, my master added a dagged hood
            to match the cote, ala the Gaston Phoebus (Book of the Hunt)
            pictures. Right.

            So here's my story of the perfect dags, proving that I can take
            complete and unashamed advantage of modern products to produce a
            period look when properly motivated. (Yes, master. By next Saturday?
            With handmade fabric buttons? Certainly, master!)

            The hood was made of dark green cotton velveteen, with a dark blue
            silk lining. The dags were to look like oak leaves. There were 30
            of them. I tried out some samples...

            First I tried the Draw it, sew the two layers together, cut out, snip
            curves, turn and press method. For some reason they always came out
            oddly shaped - rather narrower and not as curvy as I wanted, and it
            was hard to get them fully turned out.

            Next, I considered how to 'prick in' a lining around lots of curvy
            curves while controlling two seam allowances... I cut the shapes out,
            and laid them together right sides out, snipped the curves and tried
            to fold them in together along a drawn line while stitching them
            together by hand. I wasted a lot of time trying to poke the two seam
            allowances under while checking that I was staying true to the
            intended shape. It looked good! It just needed to be more efficient
            and less frustrating.

            So here's the method I finally used. I can't say how much time it
            saved in the end, but it did save frustration and I was able to
            produce some very uniform dags with it.

            I inserted the shoulder gussets, but otherwise sewed the dags BEFORE
            assembling the hood. It was a bit awkward, but worked for me. YMMV.

            I used freezer paper, and cut out the bottom of the hood pattern,
            from the dags up about 3". Four times for the hood (left and right
            for velvet and lining each), and the same for the shoulder gussets.
            When I traced the pattern onto the freezer paper, I made sure that I
            turned the pattern OVER to trace the set for the lining - no pattern
            is ever perfectly symmetrical, right? The shiny side of the freezer
            paper could then be ironed onto the wrong side of the fabrics,
            providing a nice paper edge against which to later turn the seam
            allowances. I cut out the dag shapes, leaving about 1/4" of seam
            allowance, and snipped the curves. Here's the truly sinful part. I
            laid out the hood pieces with their paper-covered dags, and sprayed
            all around the dags with fabric adhesive. (The washable kind! Do
            this one portion at a time, as the glue dries and doesn't stick as
            well.) Now I could fold up the seam allowances against the paper
            edging, and stick them right to the paper. I did this for both the
            velvet and the mirror image lining. Then I lined them both up and
            stuck the lining to the velvet, wrong sides together, right side out.
            Now all I had to do was hand stitch the edges together. For the most
            part, the seam allowances stayed stuck under where they belonged, but
            when they came out it wasn't so hard to tuck them back under again.
            The paper gave me a nice firm edge to fold them against, and the
            adhesive stayed tacky. The stitching took me about 10-12 hours in
            itself. When I was finished, I filled my bathtub with warm water and
            a little soap and let the two halves of the hood soak for a several
            hours. Then I could reach in and gently pull the paper out of each
            dag. I rinsed, rolled them up in a towel and laid them out to dry.
            A light touch with the iron, and... Perfect Dags. :)

            I assembled the hood, sewing lining to lining, velvet to velvet,
            leaving open around the face opening and down the chin (where buttons
            would be added later) for turning. I sewed this last part by hand
            and it was finished!

            For truly period dags, I still think fulled wool was the way to go,
            but I had to work within certain restrictions.

            Here are a bunch of pictures from the event. He made all the hunting
            accessories to complete the look he wanted. I think he looked great.
            :)

            http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/index.html

            Proud sister,
            Emmelyne
          • Cindy Myers
            Oh, I forgot to say (but maybe it s assumed) you can click on any of the pictures for a bigger version. http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/Pages/Image9.html
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 2, 2002
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              Oh, I forgot to say (but maybe it's assumed) you can click on any of
              the pictures for a bigger version.

              http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/Pages/Image9.html

              shows the hood really well. ;)

              -Emma
            • janeravenswood
              Wonderful hood, Emma! Looks like your technique worked great! Darka who should really be trying it herself..... ... of
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 2, 2002
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                Wonderful hood, Emma! Looks like your technique worked great!

                Darka
                who should really be trying it herself.....

                --- In SCA-Milliners@y..., Cindy Myers <emmelyne@s...> wrote:
                > Oh, I forgot to say (but maybe it's assumed) you can click on any
                of
                > the pictures for a bigger version.
                >
                > http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/Pages/Image9.html
                >
                > shows the hood really well. ;)
                >
                > -Emma
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