Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [SCA-Milliners] dagging

Expand Messages
  • andovere@netscape.net
    I m sorry if this is way off topic. I m going to be doing two hoods and a houppe with dags. Your method sounds interesting. Is there somewhere that I can learn
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 14, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm sorry if this is way off topic. I'm going to be doing two hoods and a houppe with dags. Your method sounds interesting. Is there somewhere that I can learn this stitch? Thanks.

      Thyre

      "Katherine Barich" <wheezul@...> wrote:

      >
      >I have hated to line garments for soooooo long, that I think I
      >have finally learned to master this beast.
      >
      >The last liripipe hood I made, although it wasn't dagged, had the
      >lining 'pricked in' which is at least an Elizabethan method of
      >lining.
      >
      >Instead of laying the fabrics right side together, sewing,
      >clipping, turning and pressing the garment, the lining is handsewn
      >to the outer fabric with tiny almost invisible overhand stitches
      >(prick stitch), while turning the edges in as you go after
      >preliminary pinning.  Usually a 1/16" to 1/8" egde of the outer
      >fabric shows on the inside which is achieved by pulling the lining
      >up a little further than the outer fabric. This means your lining
      >won't show on the outside!  Some people can achieve this by
      >cutting the lining a wee bit smaller than the outside fabric, but
      >I personally find it difficult achieve as nice a finish using a
      >machine - could be just me though. I know you could finish dags
      >with narrow pieces this way without having to worry about
      >turnings.  I use this method almost exclusively now, the extra
      >time it takes generally is made up for in satisfaction of near
      >perfection and not having to tear the whole darn thing back apart
      >(again).  There is a certain zen to this method, and I really like
      >to stand back and admire the beauty of the finish work.  It is
      >considered a couture finish.
      >
      >I think the most important watch point in any lining undertaking
      >is accurate cutting.  I now cut one piece and cut the other piece
      >using the already cut piece as a pattern, using the iron to help,
      >if fabric allows (i.e. velvets can be tricky).
      >
      >You can now stone me for obsession, but I must admit I have done
      >some elaborate slashed sleeves and bodices although haven't been
      >so crazy as to do a full dagged houppelande.
      >
      >Katherine
      >
      >



      __________________________________________________________________
      Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/

      Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
    • Katherine Barich
      ... From: andovere@netscape.net Reply-To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:07:18 -0400 ... hoods and a houppe with dags. Your method
      Message 2 of 15 , Aug 14, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
        From: andovere@...
        Reply-To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:07:18 -0400

        ><html><body>
        >
        >
        ><tt>
        >I'm sorry if this is way off topic. I'm going to be doing two
        hoods and a houppe with dags. Your method sounds interesting. Is
        there somewhere that I can learn this stitch? Thanks.<BR>
        ><BR>
        >Thyre<BR>

        Marquesa Laurellin's webpage:

        http://www.vertetsable.com/easybody.htm#prick

        shows a prick stitch, but it isn't the stitch I use. I use a
        variant of the stitch shown above it - the overhand type of hemming
        stitch but executed in tiny stitches, or a variant of the blind hem
        stitch shown. It's really quite simple, just take a few pieces of
        fabric and practice - try for making the stitches small enough just
        to barely be seen.

        PS. Lots of good info on Laurellin's page on several topics -
        worth a good look if you have never been to the Renaissance Tailor
        site.

        Katherine



        ><BR>
        >"Katherine Barich" <wheezul@...> wrote:<BR>
        ><BR>
        >><BR>
        >>I have hated to line garments for soooooo long, that I think
        I<BR>
        >>have finally learned to master this beast.<BR>
        >><BR>
        >>The last liripipe hood I made, although it wasn't dagged, had
        the<BR>
        >>lining 'pricked in' which is at least an Elizabethan method
        of<BR>
        >>lining.<BR>
        >><BR>
        >>Instead of laying the fabrics right side together, sewing,<BR>
        >>clipping, turning and pressing the garment, the lining is
        handsewn<BR>
        >>to the outer fabric with tiny almost invisible overhand
        stitches<BR>
        >>(prick stitch), while turning the edges in as you go after<BR>
        >>preliminary pinning.  Usually a 1/16" to 1/8" egde of the
        outer<BR>
        >>fabric shows on the inside which is achieved by pulling the
        lining<BR>
        >>up a little further than the outer fabric. This means your
        lining<BR>
        >>won't show on the outside!  Some people can achieve this by<BR>
        >>cutting the lining a wee bit smaller than the outside fabric,
        but<BR>
        >>I personally find it difficult achieve as nice a finish using
        a<BR>
        >>machine - could be just me though. I know you could finish
        dags<BR>
        >>with narrow pieces this way without having to worry about<BR>
        >>turnings.  I use this method almost exclusively now, the
        extra<BR>
        >>time it takes generally is made up for in satisfaction of
        near<BR>
        >>perfection and not having to tear the whole darn thing back
        apart<BR>
        >>(again).  There is a certain zen to this method, and I really
        like<BR>
        >>to stand back and admire the beauty of the finish work.  It
        is<BR>
        >>considered a couture finish.<BR>
        >><BR>
        >>I think the most important watch point in any lining
        undertaking<BR>
        >>is accurate cutting.  I now cut one piece and cut the other
        piece<BR>
        >>using the already cut piece as a pattern, using the iron to
        help,<BR>
        >>if fabric allows (i.e. velvets can be tricky).<BR>
        >><BR>
        >>You can now stone me for obsession, but I must admit I have
        done<BR>
        >>some elaborate slashed sleeves and bodices although haven't
        been<BR>
        >>so crazy as to do a full dagged houppelande.<BR>
        >><BR>
        >>Katherine<BR>
        >><BR>
        >><BR>
        ><BR>
        ><BR>
        ><BR>
        >__________________________________________________________________
        <BR>
        >Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas.
        Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! <a
        href="http://shopnow.netscape.com/">http://shopnow.netscape.com/</a
        ><BR>
        ><BR>
        >Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at <a
        href="http://webmail.netscape.com/">http://webmail.netscape.com/</a
        ><BR>
        ><BR>
        ></tt>
        >
        ><br>
        >
        ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
        >
        ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
        ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
        ><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
        Sponsor</b></font></td>
        ></tr>
        ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
        ><td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0
        cellspacing=0><tr><td align=center><font face=arial
        size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br>
        ><script language=JavaScript>
        >var lrec_target="_top";
        >var lrec_URL = new Array();
        >lrec_URL[1]="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/
        D=egroupweb/S=1705767503:HM/A=1196107/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://geoci
        ties.yahoo.com/v/p/feature.html";
        >var
        lrec_flashfile="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/x
        xx_geo_300x250.swf";
        >var
        lrec_altURL="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D
        =egroupweb/S=1705767503:HM/A=1196107/R=1/id=altimgurl/*http://geoci
        ties.yahoo.com/v/p/feature.html";
        >var
        lrec_altimg="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_
        geo_300x250.jpg";
        >var lrec_width=300;
        >var lrec_height=250;
        ></script>
        ><script language=JavaScript
        src=http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/jscodes/072002/fs_lrec_0
        72002.js>
        ></script>
        ><noscript>
        ><a
        href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231283.2257957.3692387.2197213/D=egroup
        web/S=1705767503:HM/A=1196107/R=2/id=noscript/*http://geocities.yah
        oo.com/v/p/feature.html" target=_top><img
        src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/1-/flash/sony/xxx_geo_300x
        250.jpg" width=300 height=250 border=0></a>
        ></noscript>
        ></td></tr></table></td>
        ></tr>
        ></table>
        >
        ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
        >
        >
        ><br>
        ><tt>
        >Community email addresses:<BR>
        >  Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com<BR>
        >  Subscribe:    SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com<BR>
        >  Unsubscribe:  SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com<BR>
        >  List owner:   SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com<BR>
        ><BR>
        >Shortcut URL to this page:<BR>
        >  <a
        href="http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners">http://www.on
        elist.com/community/SCA-Milliners</a></tt>
        ><br>
        >
        ><br>
        ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
        href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
        Service</a>.</tt>
        ></br>
        >
        ></body></html>
        >
        >
      • Bella
        ... I use a variant of the stitch shown above it - the overhand type of hemming stitch but executed in tiny stitches, or a variant of the blind hem
        Message 3 of 15 , Aug 14, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          --- Katherine Barich <wheezul@...> wrote:

          <snipped> I use a variant of the stitch shown above it
          - the overhand type of hemming stitch but executed in
          tiny stitches, or a variant of the blind hem stitch
          shown. It's really quite simple, just take a few
          pieces of fabric and practice - try for making the
          stitches small enough just to barely be seen.<<<<<


          That's the same method I use - my mother, who was a
          professional seamstress, showed me how to do it and it
          works a treat. so far I've only used it to sew down
          linings on a bodice.





          http://digital.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Digital How To
          - Get the best out of your PC!
        • Melanie
          ... you can t bear wool and the look is sufficient, heathery polartec.) You just cut them ... Thanks for all the great advice!! I like the no sewing
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 15, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            >Also, for sinfully easy dags, use fulled wool (or if
            you >can't bear wool and the "look" is sufficient,
            heathery >polartec.) You just cut them
            >dags out any old way you please; no hemming, no edge
            >treatments, no long hours at the sewing machine.

            Thanks for all the great advice!! I like the 'no
            sewing dags' idea a LOT!(:

            ~Dionysia

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
            http://www.hotjobs.com
          • Cindy Myers
            Well, I was really inspired by Katherine s description of pricking in the lining of garments, and the possibility that this could be applied to dags. I
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 2, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Well, I was really inspired by Katherine's description of 'pricking'
              in the lining of garments, and the possibility that this could be
              applied to dags.

              I hadn't at the time ever made anything with dags...

              True "inspiration" came when my apprentice brother was put on vigil
              and my master declared that "we" would make a set of clothes for him
              from the skin out. As a huntsman and falconer, he wanted to look
              like the falconer from the Devonshire tapestries (which only shows a
              view from the back!). To the ensemble, my master added a dagged hood
              to match the cote, ala the Gaston Phoebus (Book of the Hunt)
              pictures. Right.

              So here's my story of the perfect dags, proving that I can take
              complete and unashamed advantage of modern products to produce a
              period look when properly motivated. (Yes, master. By next Saturday?
              With handmade fabric buttons? Certainly, master!)

              The hood was made of dark green cotton velveteen, with a dark blue
              silk lining. The dags were to look like oak leaves. There were 30
              of them. I tried out some samples...

              First I tried the Draw it, sew the two layers together, cut out, snip
              curves, turn and press method. For some reason they always came out
              oddly shaped - rather narrower and not as curvy as I wanted, and it
              was hard to get them fully turned out.

              Next, I considered how to 'prick in' a lining around lots of curvy
              curves while controlling two seam allowances... I cut the shapes out,
              and laid them together right sides out, snipped the curves and tried
              to fold them in together along a drawn line while stitching them
              together by hand. I wasted a lot of time trying to poke the two seam
              allowances under while checking that I was staying true to the
              intended shape. It looked good! It just needed to be more efficient
              and less frustrating.

              So here's the method I finally used. I can't say how much time it
              saved in the end, but it did save frustration and I was able to
              produce some very uniform dags with it.

              I inserted the shoulder gussets, but otherwise sewed the dags BEFORE
              assembling the hood. It was a bit awkward, but worked for me. YMMV.

              I used freezer paper, and cut out the bottom of the hood pattern,
              from the dags up about 3". Four times for the hood (left and right
              for velvet and lining each), and the same for the shoulder gussets.
              When I traced the pattern onto the freezer paper, I made sure that I
              turned the pattern OVER to trace the set for the lining - no pattern
              is ever perfectly symmetrical, right? The shiny side of the freezer
              paper could then be ironed onto the wrong side of the fabrics,
              providing a nice paper edge against which to later turn the seam
              allowances. I cut out the dag shapes, leaving about 1/4" of seam
              allowance, and snipped the curves. Here's the truly sinful part. I
              laid out the hood pieces with their paper-covered dags, and sprayed
              all around the dags with fabric adhesive. (The washable kind! Do
              this one portion at a time, as the glue dries and doesn't stick as
              well.) Now I could fold up the seam allowances against the paper
              edging, and stick them right to the paper. I did this for both the
              velvet and the mirror image lining. Then I lined them both up and
              stuck the lining to the velvet, wrong sides together, right side out.
              Now all I had to do was hand stitch the edges together. For the most
              part, the seam allowances stayed stuck under where they belonged, but
              when they came out it wasn't so hard to tuck them back under again.
              The paper gave me a nice firm edge to fold them against, and the
              adhesive stayed tacky. The stitching took me about 10-12 hours in
              itself. When I was finished, I filled my bathtub with warm water and
              a little soap and let the two halves of the hood soak for a several
              hours. Then I could reach in and gently pull the paper out of each
              dag. I rinsed, rolled them up in a towel and laid them out to dry.
              A light touch with the iron, and... Perfect Dags. :)

              I assembled the hood, sewing lining to lining, velvet to velvet,
              leaving open around the face opening and down the chin (where buttons
              would be added later) for turning. I sewed this last part by hand
              and it was finished!

              For truly period dags, I still think fulled wool was the way to go,
              but I had to work within certain restrictions.

              Here are a bunch of pictures from the event. He made all the hunting
              accessories to complete the look he wanted. I think he looked great.
              :)

              http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/index.html

              Proud sister,
              Emmelyne
            • Cindy Myers
              Oh, I forgot to say (but maybe it s assumed) you can click on any of the pictures for a bigger version. http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/Pages/Image9.html
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 2, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Oh, I forgot to say (but maybe it's assumed) you can click on any of
                the pictures for a bigger version.

                http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/Pages/Image9.html

                shows the hood really well. ;)

                -Emma
              • janeravenswood
                Wonderful hood, Emma! Looks like your technique worked great! Darka who should really be trying it herself..... ... of
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 2, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  Wonderful hood, Emma! Looks like your technique worked great!

                  Darka
                  who should really be trying it herself.....

                  --- In SCA-Milliners@y..., Cindy Myers <emmelyne@s...> wrote:
                  > Oh, I forgot to say (but maybe it's assumed) you can click on any
                  of
                  > the pictures for a bigger version.
                  >
                  > http://www.silkewerk.com/harvestday/Pages/Image9.html
                  >
                  > shows the hood really well. ;)
                  >
                  > -Emma
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.