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Re: [SCA-Milliners] ISO veil info

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  • danabren@juno.com
    This could get extremely long and involved, but I am going to make a Blanket Statement (warning! warning!) and say that a majority of the whole basic concept
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
      This could get extremely long and involved, but I am going to make a
      Blanket Statement (warning! warning!) and say that a majority of the
      whole basic concept behind veils is religious (respect to God by keeping
      your head covered)

      Naturally, there are other factors, such as the influence of the Romans
      (where the women covered their heads for modesty) through the Byzantines
      and thereby the invading Barbarian hordes, add to that the social and
      religious mores of the Judeo-Christian religion, and well, by then, it's
      "just what you did" because everyone has done so for ages and ages :) as
      well as hygeine and displays of wealth.

      There's gotta be more to it than this, but I'm fairly comfortable to
      stand by this as a generality (alert! blanket statement!).

      Regarding colors, of course colors are period - but the earlier you go,
      the better chance of being able to document colors. The Spanish, as late
      as the 13th C, wore colored and patterned mantillas. In the 12th C the
      fashion of wearing white veilings and affiliated accoutrements (ie
      barbettes, fillets) was fairly dominant, but there are still examples of
      colored veils, yet even then the fillets and caps were often colored and
      embroidered. From the 10th to 11th C in England there are many examples
      of colored veils (as well as plain white), both in allegorical and laic
      art. The earlier period depictions of veils often display the white veils
      as being embroidered.

      Check out "The History of Costume" by Davenport (Crown), "Late Antique
      and Early Christian Book Illumination" by Weitzmann (George Brazilier),
      The Book of Kells and The Lindisfarne Gospels, Medieval Art by Snyder
      (Prentice-Hall Abrams)

      Why can you not wear yellow? It was the color worn only by woman during
      the Roman Empire (no man would be seen dead in yellow, it was considered
      an effeminate hue) While I've never researched a yellow veil (I wouldn't
      wear it, makes my skin look green) what's the issue with it?

      Anyone else?
      Danabren

      On Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:57:50 -0000 "ladyrhie" <rkellander@...>
      writes:
      > Greetings!
      > I am hoping to settle an arguement on veils and figured you good
      > folks would be the best to ask!
      >
      > I am trying to figure out a) the purpose for wearing veils and b)
      > the possibility of wearing colors other than white. All I can find is
      > that yellow shouldn't be worn, but that doesn't tell me what can be
      > worn. I was told at one time that as a early period Celtic woman, I
      > could wear colored veils, but nothing to back it up with.
      >
      > Also if you can tell me where I might be able to find the
      > documentation, I would greatly appreciate it!
      >
      > YIS~
      >
      > Lady Rhie



      ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
      I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you
      want to annoy for the rest of your life.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Cynthia Virtue
      ... It has been said, but I haven t seen documented, that yellow veils were for prostitutes. However, as many of us have found, prohibitions of such-and-such
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
        danabren@... wrote:


        > Why can you not wear yellow? It was the color worn only by woman during
        > the Roman Empire (no man would be seen dead in yellow, it was considered
        > an effeminate hue) While I've never researched a yellow veil (I wouldn't
        > wear it, makes my skin look green) what's the issue with it?


        It has been said, but I haven't seen documented, that yellow veils were
        for prostitutes. However, as many of us have found, prohibitions of
        such-and-such garment or color were often limited to one city and one
        short span of time -- say, Rouen from 1320-1340 and at no other
        time/place. But it gets turned into 'all of the medieval period' by
        hearsay.

        If you have time, Danabren, could you tell us more specifics about
        embroidered and colored veils or early headwear? I haven't found any
        examples/illustrations of these before.


        cv
        --
        Cynthia Virtue and/or
        Cynthia du Pré Argent
      • ladyrhie
        ... I was told it was supposed to show that you are/were a prostitute. Also heard the jewish women had to wear one with a yellow stripe to show they were
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
          >While I've never researched a yellow veil (I wouldn't
          > wear it, makes my skin look green) what's the issue with it?


          I was told it was supposed to show that you are/were a prostitute.
          Also heard the jewish women had to wear one with a yellow stripe to
          show they were jewish.

          Rhie
        • ladyrhie
          Danabren, Could I please forward this to the Newbie list where the arguement is going on? I think it would be very helpful for newcomers to know considering
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
            Danabren,
            Could I please forward this to the Newbie list where the arguement is
            going on? I think it would be very helpful for newcomers to know
            considering they are being told in no uncertain terms, NO! No colors!

            Lady Rhie

            --- In SCA-Milliners@y..., danabren@j... wrote:
            >
            > This could get extremely long and involved, but I am going to make a
            > Blanket Statement (warning! warning!) and say that a majority of the
            > whole basic concept behind veils is religious (respect to God by
            keeping
            > your head covered)
            >
            > Naturally, there are other factors, such as the influence of the
            Romans
            > (where the women covered their heads for modesty) through the
            Byzantines
            > and thereby the invading Barbarian hordes, add to that the social
            and
            > religious mores of the Judeo-Christian religion, and well, by then,
            it's
            > "just what you did" because everyone has done so for ages and
            ages :) as
            > well as hygeine and displays of wealth.
            >
            > There's gotta be more to it than this, but I'm fairly comfortable to
            > stand by this as a generality (alert! blanket statement!).
            >
            > Regarding colors, of course colors are period - but the earlier you
            go,
            > the better chance of being able to document colors. The Spanish, as
            late
            > as the 13th C, wore colored and patterned mantillas. In the 12th C
            the
            > fashion of wearing white veilings and affiliated accoutrements (ie
            > barbettes, fillets) was fairly dominant, but there are still
            examples of
            > colored veils, yet even then the fillets and caps were often
            colored and
            > embroidered. From the 10th to 11th C in England there are many
            examples
            > of colored veils (as well as plain white), both in allegorical and
            laic
            > art. The earlier period depictions of veils often display the white
            veils
            > as being embroidered.
            >
            > Check out "The History of Costume" by Davenport (Crown), "Late
            Antique
            > and Early Christian Book Illumination" by Weitzmann (George
            Brazilier),
            > The Book of Kells and The Lindisfarne Gospels, Medieval Art by
            Snyder
            > (Prentice-Hall Abrams)
            >
            > Why can you not wear yellow? It was the color worn only by woman
            during
            > the Roman Empire (no man would be seen dead in yellow, it was
            considered
            > an effeminate hue) While I've never researched a yellow veil (I
            wouldn't
            > wear it, makes my skin look green) what's the issue with it?
            >
            > Anyone else?
            > Danabren
            >
          • danabren@juno.com
            Egad! Tell them! Tell them colors! Pick a color!!!! (Just be sure to point out that the colored veils are early-period, pre-13th C) Danabren ... ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
              Egad! Tell them! Tell them colors! Pick a color!!!! (Just be sure to
              point out that the colored veils are early-period, pre-13th C)

              Danabren

              > Could I please forward this to the Newbie list where the arguement
              > is going on? I think it would be very helpful for newcomers to know
              > considering they are being told in no uncertain terms, NO! No
              > colors!
              >
              > Lady Rhie

              ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
              I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you
              want to annoy for the rest of your life.

              ________________________________________________________________
              GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
              Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
              Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
              http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
            • ladyrhie
              As always, Danabren, you are da bomb!!!(my apologies for the modern slang, but I should have bet money on this arguement!) Rhie ... arguement ... know ... you
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
                As always, Danabren, you are da bomb!!!(my apologies for the modern
                slang, but I should have bet money on this arguement!)

                Rhie

                --- In SCA-Milliners@y..., danabren@j... wrote:
                >
                > Egad! Tell them! Tell them colors! Pick a color!!!! (Just be sure to
                > point out that the colored veils are early-period, pre-13th C)
                >
                > Danabren
                >
                > > Could I please forward this to the Newbie list where the
                arguement
                > > is going on? I think it would be very helpful for newcomers to
                know
                > > considering they are being told in no uncertain terms, NO! No
                > > colors!
                > >
                > > Lady Rhie
                >
                > ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                > I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person
                you
                > want to annoy for the rest of your life.
                >
                > ________________________________________________________________
                > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
              • pdruss@aol.com
                In a message dated 4/1/02 3:07:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Please fogive me, which newbie list is that? Tamara [Non-text portions of this message have
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 1, 2002
                  In a message dated 4/1/02 3:07:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                  rkellander@... writes:


                  >
                  >
                  > Danabren,
                  > Could I please forward this to the Newbie list where the arguement is
                  > going on? I think it would be very helpful for newcomers to know
                  > considering they are being told in no uncertain terms, NO! No colors!
                  >
                  > Lady Rhie
                  >




                  Please fogive me, which newbie list is that?


                  Tamara


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • danabren@juno.com
                  ... Aw shucks :) Danabren ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ I love being married. It s so great to find that one special person you want
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 2, 2002
                    > As always, Danabren, you are da bomb!!!(my apologies for the modern
                    > slang, but I should have bet money on this arguement!)

                    Aw shucks :)

                    Danabren

                    ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                    I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you
                    want to annoy for the rest of your life.

                    ________________________________________________________________
                    GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
                    Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
                    Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
                    http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
                  • Kellander, Rhonda
                    Aw shucks :) Danabren If you have time at EK War Practice, I d like to introduce you to a friend of mine who is looking for hat help and will be moving to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 2, 2002
                      Aw shucks :)

                      Danabren


                      If you have time at EK War Practice, I'd like to introduce you to a friend
                      of mine who is looking for hat help and will be moving to Marietta at the
                      end of April. You are still in the lower PA area right?

                      YIS~
                      Lady Rhieinwylydd verch Gwasdewi Goch
                      called Rhie
                      MOL
                      Shire of Silver Rylle
                      East Kingdom (Southern Region)
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