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Re: [SCA-Milliners] Re: Let's Get This Party Started!

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  • Yvianne
    ... There are a whole handful of logical reasons... Sadly we ll probably never have any conclusive answer. ... I think if they didn t fit it was probably by
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
      > Perhaps she outgrew them? They were hand-me-downs?

      There are a whole handful of logical reasons... Sadly we'll probably never
      have any conclusive answer.

      > I don't think the craftsman who made them would want to be known as
      > someone who made uncomfortable or I'll-fitted products.

      I think if they didn't fit it was probably by accident, not design.

      I own 3 circlets, 2 were commissioned and one is self made. Only one of the
      commissioned ones fits properly, but the artist made a obvious mistake. He
      offered to replace it but it might be a year before I would have it back. I
      decided the rest of the circlet was so lovely and fit so well that those
      considerations outweighed the flaw.

      Why didn't I send the ill fitting circlet back? I wanted it for a specific
      event. There wasn't time for a new one to be made so I had to wear the one I
      received. Once it served it's useful purpose I didn't need it anymore. It's
      become a "loaner circlet" :-)

      The one I made is also wrong. Just about 1/4 of an inch too small, but boy
      does it make a difference sometimes. Even something as silly as how I braid
      my hair can cause it to ride a little higher than I like in the front and
      dip down in the back.

      So why don't I make a new one? Time, effort and money ... plus I can still
      wear it if I braid my hair differently and wear a really thin veil
      underneath. It doesn't look quite the same as the picture I had in my head
      as I created it, but it's still period in appearance.

      I just realized these answers would sound just as reasonable coming from a
      medieval lady trying to explain why her cauls appear too short. :-)

      Yvianne



      > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Yvianne" wrote:
      >>
      >> I'm researching another topic right now, but I'm always on the lookout
      >> for
      >> anything having to do with cauls. :-)
      >>
      >> I recently read a thesis that vaguely resembles "Medieval Finds from
      >> Excavations in London: Dress Accessories". It included pictures of an
      >> effigy
      >> wearing cauls almost exactly like the ones I wear.... a metal band with
      >> ovals hanging from the lower edge (some refer to them as strainer cauls
      >> or
      >> Princess Leia style).
      >>
      >> The main difference is the ones on the effigy are smaller and worn so
      >> that
      >> part of the ear sticks out the bottom. I see this occasionally but
      >> without
      >> any discernable pattern that allows me to conclude it was a fad.
      >>
      >> I've tried wearing cauls this way. It allows for better hearing... the
      >> down
      >> side is: if you wear them mid ear, they do slightly rub against your
      >> earlobe. Not so much that it hurts but they just feel weird. At the end
      >> of
      >> the day, when you take off the cauls, you really notice it. Your earlobes
      >> can be a bit touchy for days or even show a bit of bruising.
      >>
      >> Something else I wonder about ... if this was how the ladies wanted the
      >> cauls to look when they commissioned them, or whether they adjusted
      >> themselves to this position??
      >>
      >> I've been wearing cauls for 15 years and have a lot of experience with
      >> that
      >> particular phenomenon. ;-) If either the side pieces or headband are
      >> "off"
      >> for the shape of your head or location of your ears the headpiece will
      >> move
      >> to where it fits. Your hair will adjust to the cauls, not hold them in
      >> place.
      >>
      >> Sometimes you don't notice, sometimes the cauls are so uncomfortable to
      >> wear
      >> any other way that you don't care. Since they couldn't just go to
      >> Wal-Mart
      >> and exchange them, they would have worn them anyway.
      >>
      >> I also have a pair of cauls that don't fit me quite right yet I continue
      >> to
      >> wear them... often, for the past 8 years or so. It would have been a
      >> waste
      >> time, effort but most of all, money to trash them and start over. I wear
      >> them because it's what I have. A new headpiece is on my list of things to
      >> do, but it keeps getting pushed to the back because they are wearable.
      >>
      >> When I have the time...
      >>
      >> I need to pursue other images of the lady in the effigy to see if I can
      >> find
      >> other representations of her headwear. I'm curious if she wore cauls
      >> often,
      >> if she wore other styles and if they always covered part of her ears.
      >>
      >> I also plan on looking more information on the twisted wires that are
      >> shown
      >> in the paper.
      >>
      >> Oh, and I need a new pair of cauls ;-)
      >>
      >> ... but for now, back to my other projects.
      >>
      >> Yvianne
      >> AEthelmearc
    • Kathleen - Yahoo
      .Alright everyone, I m tired of seeing this group being so sluggish.... What are you working on? What are you researching?... Well, I just finished a horned
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
        .Alright everyone, I'm tired of seeing this group being so sluggish....
        What are you working on? What are you researching?...



        Well, I just finished a "horned" henin. The base was made from a pattern
        Mistress Truly shared with me before heading to MN. After the base was made
        in buckram, I then padded it with quilters batting and covered it in white
        linen. The I had a friend hand sew the silk lining in with the linen and
        then I made a series of slip covers for the whole thing out of various
        brocades so my hat can "match" my houpelaunde. I have several and the hat's
        covers do not necessarily match, but are of similar tones.



        The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over the
        henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
        cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin in
        slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and about
        as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures we
        have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are exaggerations. I
        suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape would
        be wrong.



        The whole thing is not an utter failure, but I am now planning to make a
        beaded "crown" of three dimensional snowflakes to top the whole thing off
        and give it more. umph!



        Plodding away in An Tir,




        rignachofargyllarms-signature

        Rignach of Argyll

        Lancer of Madrone











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jillwheezul
        ... You might wish to ask Pastiche if they are still selling their ultra fine linen. I happily bought some - It is quite see through - and the other thought
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
          > The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over
          > the
          > henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
          > cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin
          > in
          > slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and
          > about
          > as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures
          > we
          > have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are
          > exaggerations. I
          > suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape
          > would
          > be wrong.
          >
          > The whole thing is not an utter failure, but I am now planning to make
          > a
          > beaded "crown" of three dimensional snowflakes to top the whole thing
          > off
          > and give it more. umph!
          >
          > Plodding away in An Tir,
          >
          > rignachofargyllarms-signature
          >
          > Rignach of Argyll
          >
          > Lancer of Madrone

          You might wish to ask Pastiche if they are still selling their ultra fine
          linen. I happily bought some - It is quite see through - and the other
          thought is to get a silk that is of a looser weave. The light china silk
          is fine stuff, but it is tightly woven together to serve as lining and
          doesn't let much light pass through.

          Katherine in Three Mountains
        • toriruhl
          You should post a picture. I would love to see it.
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
            You should post a picture. I would love to see it.



            --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen - Yahoo" wrote:
            >
            > .Alright everyone, I'm tired of seeing this group being so sluggish....
            > What are you working on? What are you researching?...
            >
            >
            >
            > Well, I just finished a "horned" henin. The base was made from a pattern
            > Mistress Truly shared with me before heading to MN. After the base was made
            > in buckram, I then padded it with quilters batting and covered it in white
            > linen. The I had a friend hand sew the silk lining in with the linen and
            > then I made a series of slip covers for the whole thing out of various
            > brocades so my hat can "match" my houpelaunde. I have several and the hat's
            > covers do not necessarily match, but are of similar tones.
            >
            >
            >
            > The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over the
            > henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
            > cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin in
            > slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and about
            > as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures we
            > have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are exaggerations. I
            > suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape would
            > be wrong.
            >
            >
            >
            > The whole thing is not an utter failure, but I am now planning to make a
            > beaded "crown" of three dimensional snowflakes to top the whole thing off
            > and give it more. umph!
            >
            >
            >
            > Plodding away in An Tir,
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > rignachofargyllarms-signature
            >
            > Rignach of Argyll
            >
            > Lancer of Madrone
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Catrijn vanden Westhende
            On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Kathleen - Yahoo ... I recommend silk gauze for this, like the 3mm stuff from Dharma:
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
              On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Kathleen - Yahoo
              <rignachargyll@...> wrote:
              > The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over the
              > henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
              > cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin in
              > slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and about
              > as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures we
              > have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are exaggerations. I
              > suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape would
              > be wrong.


              I recommend silk gauze for this, like the 3mm stuff from Dharma:
              http://www.dharmatrading.com/fabric/silk/gauze.html

              It's lighter and more transparent than the finest habotai I've seen so far.

              - Catrijn
            • antoniadt2000
              I ve been working on a horned headdress for a regional A&S faire and writing a series of articles on the process for my barony s newsletter. I based the shape
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
                I've been working on a horned headdress for a regional A&S faire and writing a series of articles on the process for my barony's newsletter. I based the shape on the Arnolfini portrait. I used a pair of small baskets for the frames. There were supposed to be a number of other things going on with it but circumstances changed [shrug]

                I have made a couple of others like this; on one I cast the pewter metal bits and the 2nd one I used decorative metal screenig for the side pieces.

                Antonia di Troina


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Barbara
                For someone who rarely wears any kind of hat in the modern world, I am wild about all sorts of Medieval hats! My passion, though, is Russian Headdresses for
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
                  For someone who rarely wears any kind of hat in the modern world, I am wild
                  about all sorts of Medieval hats!

                  My passion, though, is Russian Headdresses for women. I've made quite a
                  few, but none have reached the pearly ornateness that are described in
                  period sources. Sadly, extant examples are hard to come by, as are
                  paintings of the same.

                  So I base my hats mostly on the costumes from a ball held in 1903 in Russia.
                  They were trying to recreate a 17th century look. The hats match
                  descriptions of earlier period hats.

                  I'll post some examples in the photo section.


                  Mir,
                  Tatjana
                  ~Calontir

                  "It's never too late to be what you might have been."


                  Wolf and Tiger Woodworking
                  www.wolfandtiger.com
                • Barbara
                  ... From: Catrijn vanden Westhende To: Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 5:04 PM Subject: Re:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Catrijn vanden Westhende" <catrijn@...>
                    To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 5:04 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Let's Get This Party Started!


                    > On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Kathleen - Yahoo
                    > <rignachargyll@...> wrote:
                    >> The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over the
                    >> henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
                    >> cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin
                    >> in
                    >> slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and
                    >> about
                    >> as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures we
                    >> have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are
                    >> exaggerations. I
                    >> suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape
                    >> would
                    >> be wrong.
                    >
                    >
                    > I recommend silk gauze for this, like the 3mm stuff from Dharma:
                    > http://www.dharmatrading.com/fabric/silk/gauze.html
                    >
                    > It's lighter and more transparent than the finest habotai I've seen so
                    > far.
                    >
                    > - Catrijn
                    >

                    I second the recommendation for Dharma. You can read through that sheer
                    silk. It's high quality and beautiful.

                    Mir!
                    Tatjana
                  • toriruhl
                    What influenced your decision to use baskets instead of creating the cane framework yourself? Madelena
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 4, 2013
                      What influenced your decision to use baskets instead of creating the cane framework yourself?

                      Madelena


                      --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, AntoniadiTroina@... wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > I've been working on a horned headdress for a regional A&S faire and writing a series of articles on the process for my barony's newsletter. I based the shape on the Arnolfini portrait. I used a pair of small baskets for the frames. There were supposed to be a number of other things going on with it but circumstances changed [shrug]
                      >
                      > I have made a couple of others like this; on one I cast the pewter metal bits and the 2nd one I used decorative metal screenig for the side pieces.
                      >
                      > Antonia di Troina
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Cynthia Virtue
                      ... http://www.dharmatrading.com/fabric/silk/gauze.html It s lighter and more transparent than the finest habotai I ve seen so far. - Catrijn Yes. Habotai is
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 5, 2013
                        > I recommend silk gauze for this, like the 3mm stuff from Dharma:
                        http://www.dharmatrading.com/fabric/silk/gauze.html It's lighter and
                        more transparent than the finest habotai I've seen so far. - Catrijn

                        Yes. Habotai is fun stuff, but the later veils need to be as
                        transparent as possible.

                        In a book about early American clothing in Pennsylvania, I saw a photo
                        of a bonnet (rather like the modern Amish bonnets) which was made of
                        transparent linen. The caption emphasized that a thread thin enough to
                        make transparent linen was not possible on a machine, but had to be spun
                        by a skilled spinster, so it wasn't available any longer. Sorry to say,
                        I don't have the citation details for this book; it was for sale in the
                        gift shop at Valley Forge, and that's all I can tell you!

                        As for the basketwork question, years ago I saw a short piece about the
                        bearskin hats worn by the Beefeaters in England, and these are
                        constructed on reed basketwork frames. It is of course not proof, but
                        there aren't a lot of candidates for medievally-available, lightweight,
                        strong, flexible frameworks. Those candidates are wirework, reed or
                        basketry, vellum (leather), felt with hide glues, and possibly
                        paper/cardboard. There's a thin cardboard supportasse for an
                        Elizabethan wheel ruff extant, for example.

                        Of these, the easiest to make/use these days is some kind of basket
                        bought from a craft store and then altered to fit, but there is plenty
                        of room for solid research into this, and I hope someone is doing that!

                        Regards,
                        Cynthia du Pre Argent
                      • antoniadt2000
                        Lack of materials. I have no basketry supplies or equipment to work with; it is another skill I have read about but have not done. Antonia ... From: toriruhl
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 5, 2013
                          Lack of materials. I have no basketry supplies or equipment to work with; it is another skill I have read about but have not done.

                          Antonia


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: toriruhl <truhl75@...>
                          To: SCA-Milliners <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Mon, Feb 4, 2013 8:22 pm
                          Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: Let's Get This Party Started!





                          What influenced your decision to use baskets instead of creating the cane framework yourself?

                          Madelena

                          --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, AntoniadiTroina@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I've been working on a horned headdress for a regional A&S faire and writing a series of articles on the process for my barony's newsletter. I based the shape on the Arnolfini portrait. I used a pair of small baskets for the frames. There were supposed to be a number of other things going on with it but circumstances changed [shrug]
                          >
                          > I have made a couple of others like this; on one I cast the pewter metal bits and the 2nd one I used decorative metal screenig for the side pieces.
                          >
                          > Antonia di Troina
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >









                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • rachelle_stephen
                          Hello, Rignach I ve worn a hennin - both veiled and uncovered (a la van der Weyden), for the last 10 years or so... I prefer silk chiffon for the veil over the
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                            Hello, Rignach
                            I've worn a hennin - both veiled and uncovered (a la van der Weyden), for the last 10 years or so... I prefer silk chiffon for the veil over the hennin, because it allows the 'fancy work' to show through and still drapes/flutters beautifully.

                            I hope this helps!
                            --Ysabeau Durant, Trimaris

                            --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, <wheezul@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > > The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over
                            > > the
                            > > henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
                            > > cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin
                            > > in
                            > > slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and
                            > > about
                            > > as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures
                            > > we
                            > > have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are
                            > > exaggerations. I
                            > > suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape
                            > > would
                            > > be wrong.
                            > >
                            > > The whole thing is not an utter failure, but I am now planning to make
                            > > a
                            > > beaded "crown" of three dimensional snowflakes to top the whole thing
                            > > off
                            > > and give it more. umph!
                            > >
                            > > Plodding away in An Tir,
                            > >
                            > > rignachofargyllarms-signature
                            > >
                            > > Rignach of Argyll
                            > >
                            > > Lancer of Madrone
                            >
                            > You might wish to ask Pastiche if they are still selling their ultra fine
                            > linen. I happily bought some - It is quite see through - and the other
                            > thought is to get a silk that is of a looser weave. The light china silk
                            > is fine stuff, but it is tightly woven together to serve as lining and
                            > doesn't let much light pass through.
                            >
                            > Katherine in Three Mountains
                            >
                          • rachelle_stephen
                            I made 3 different sets of cauls, wearing floral foam, hollowed out (and NOT hollowed--ouch!) until I hit on a caul construction that suits my curly hair and
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                              I made 3 different sets of cauls, wearing floral foam, hollowed out (and NOT hollowed--ouch!) until I hit on a caul construction that suits my curly hair and low pain thresholds. I buy the biggest curlers I can find, use a hacksaw to shorten to desired length and then cover the shortened curler with 2 layers of chocolate brown nylon stockings. Braid hair supply store hair, saving those pesky single hairs taht *always* come out when making long braids... Apply spray adhesive to your headband (curly hair = metal headband!) and wrap with those single hairs. Unglue/unstick yourself from the headband and go to bed: the adhesive really does take 24 hours to dry...

                              The next day, wire your headband into the holes in the curler that fit your head best. Pull down all the shades and walk around, singing 80's disco music, vacuum or empty the dishwasher to make sure your caul under-structure is secure and comfortable. THEN cover your stockinged curlers with braided hair and gold netting, if you have any.

                              I store this headpiece in an empty dry (powder) detergent box, inside plastic grocery bags.

                              Most importantly: you should enjoy wearing your hat or headpiece: if it's not comfortable, you're not going to wear it more than once...

                              Loving the activity on this list,
                              think I'm going to forge ahead with my Christine de Pisan headpiece next... Thanks for the inspiration!

                              --Ysabeau Durant, Trimaris


                              --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "toriruhl" <truhl75@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Perhaps she outgrew them? They were hand-me-downs?
                              > I don't think the craftsman who made them would want to be known as someone who made uncomfortable or I'll-fitted products.
                              >
                              > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Yvianne" wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I'm researching another topic right now, but I'm always on the lookout for
                              > > anything having to do with cauls. :-)
                              > >
                              > > I recently read a thesis that vaguely resembles "Medieval Finds from
                              > > Excavations in London: Dress Accessories". It included pictures of an effigy
                              > > wearing cauls almost exactly like the ones I wear.... a metal band with
                              > > ovals hanging from the lower edge (some refer to them as strainer cauls or
                              > > Princess Leia style).
                              > >
                              > > The main difference is the ones on the effigy are smaller and worn so that
                              > > part of the ear sticks out the bottom. I see this occasionally but without
                              > > any discernable pattern that allows me to conclude it was a fad.
                              > >
                              > > I've tried wearing cauls this way. It allows for better hearing... the down
                              > > side is: if you wear them mid ear, they do slightly rub against your
                              > > earlobe. Not so much that it hurts but they just feel weird. At the end of
                              > > the day, when you take off the cauls, you really notice it. Your earlobes
                              > > can be a bit touchy for days or even show a bit of bruising.
                              > >
                              > > Something else I wonder about ... if this was how the ladies wanted the
                              > > cauls to look when they commissioned them, or whether they adjusted
                              > > themselves to this position??
                              > >
                              > > I've been wearing cauls for 15 years and have a lot of experience with that
                              > > particular phenomenon. ;-) If either the side pieces or headband are "off"
                              > > for the shape of your head or location of your ears the headpiece will move
                              > > to where it fits. Your hair will adjust to the cauls, not hold them in
                              > > place.
                              > >
                              > > Sometimes you don't notice, sometimes the cauls are so uncomfortable to wear
                              > > any other way that you don't care. Since they couldn't just go to Wal-Mart
                              > > and exchange them, they would have worn them anyway.
                              > >
                              > > I also have a pair of cauls that don't fit me quite right yet I continue to
                              > > wear them... often, for the past 8 years or so. It would have been a waste
                              > > time, effort but most of all, money to trash them and start over. I wear
                              > > them because it's what I have. A new headpiece is on my list of things to
                              > > do, but it keeps getting pushed to the back because they are wearable.
                              > >
                              > > When I have the time...
                              > >
                              > > I need to pursue other images of the lady in the effigy to see if I can find
                              > > other representations of her headwear. I'm curious if she wore cauls often,
                              > > if she wore other styles and if they always covered part of her ears.
                              > >
                              > > I also plan on looking more information on the twisted wires that are shown
                              > > in the paper.
                              > >
                              > > Oh, and I need a new pair of cauls ;-)
                              > >
                              > > ... but for now, back to my other projects.
                              > >
                              > > Yvianne
                              > > AEthelmearc
                              > >
                              >
                            • steph sitzes
                              Ysabeau, do you have a photo of yourself wearing them? I really would love to see them! Arianna ________________________________ [Non-text portions of this
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 26, 2013
                                Ysabeau,
                                do you have a photo of yourself wearing them? I really would love to see them!
                                Arianna




                                ________________________________

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • rachelle_stephen
                                I still avoid the camera...and don t Facebook (FB is *evil!) but I ll try to post one after next event...after Gulf Wars - in April? thanks for asking!
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 28, 2013
                                  I still avoid the camera...and don't Facebook (FB is *evil!) but I'll try to post one after next event...after Gulf Wars - in April?

                                  thanks for asking!
                                  Flattered is,
                                  Ysabeau

                                  --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, steph sitzes <stephehawk@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Ysabeau,
                                  > do you have a photo of yourself wearing them? I really would love to see them!
                                  > Arianna
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • rachelle_stephen
                                  sounds *gorgeous*, Rignach! Have you considered using silk chiffon for your Burgundian veils? I do... Thanks for sharing! --Ysabeau JL Durant, Trimaris
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 29, 2013
                                    sounds *gorgeous*, Rignach! Have you considered using silk chiffon for your 'Burgundian' veils? I do...

                                    Thanks for sharing!
                                    --Ysabeau JL Durant, Trimaris

                                    --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen - Yahoo" <rignachargyll@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > .Alright everyone, I'm tired of seeing this group being so sluggish....
                                    > What are you working on? What are you researching?...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Well, I just finished a "horned" henin. The base was made from a pattern
                                    > Mistress Truly shared with me before heading to MN. After the base was made
                                    > in buckram, I then padded it with quilters batting and covered it in white
                                    > linen. The I had a friend hand sew the silk lining in with the linen and
                                    > then I made a series of slip covers for the whole thing out of various
                                    > brocades so my hat can "match" my houpelaunde. I have several and the hat's
                                    > covers do not necessarily match, but are of similar tones.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over the
                                    > henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
                                    > cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin in
                                    > slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and about
                                    > as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures we
                                    > have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are exaggerations. I
                                    > suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape would
                                    > be wrong.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > The whole thing is not an utter failure, but I am now planning to make a
                                    > beaded "crown" of three dimensional snowflakes to top the whole thing off
                                    > and give it more. umph!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Plodding away in An Tir,
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > rignachofargyllarms-signature
                                    >
                                    > Rignach of Argyll
                                    >
                                    > Lancer of Madrone
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Stephehawk
                                    I would still love to see it! Arianna GleNn abhann ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 29, 2013
                                      I would still love to see it!
                                      Arianna
                                      GleNn abhann

                                      On Mar 29, 2013, at 8:45 AM, "rachelle_stephen" <rachelle.stephen@...> wrote:

                                      > sounds *gorgeous*, Rignach! Have you considered using silk chiffon for your 'Burgundian' veils? I do...
                                      >
                                      > Thanks for sharing!
                                      > --Ysabeau JL Durant, Trimaris
                                      >
                                      > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Kathleen - Yahoo" <rignachargyll@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > .Alright everyone, I'm tired of seeing this group being so sluggish....
                                      > > What are you working on? What are you researching?...
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Well, I just finished a "horned" henin. The base was made from a pattern
                                      > > Mistress Truly shared with me before heading to MN. After the base was made
                                      > > in buckram, I then padded it with quilters batting and covered it in white
                                      > > linen. The I had a friend hand sew the silk lining in with the linen and
                                      > > then I made a series of slip covers for the whole thing out of various
                                      > > brocades so my hat can "match" my houpelaunde. I have several and the hat's
                                      > > covers do not necessarily match, but are of similar tones.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > The overall effect is disappointing, because when I wear my veil over the
                                      > > henin it is not at all visible. I might as well have made it out of
                                      > > cardboard. The profile is perfect, but the effort of covering the henin in
                                      > > slip on brocade was pointless. My veils are habtoi silk, very fine and about
                                      > > as see through as you can get. I am assuming that some of the pictures we
                                      > > have of paintings which show the nearly invisible veils are exaggerations. I
                                      > > suppose an organza would yield a more translucent veil, but the drape would
                                      > > be wrong.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > The whole thing is not an utter failure, but I am now planning to make a
                                      > > beaded "crown" of three dimensional snowflakes to top the whole thing off
                                      > > and give it more. umph!
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Plodding away in An Tir,
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > rignachofargyllarms-signature
                                      > >
                                      > > Rignach of Argyll
                                      > >
                                      > > Lancer of Madrone
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • rachelle_stephen
                                      Okay, no activity on this list for a *long* time, so maybe you won t mind if I chatter a little bit? In the torpid Trimarian (Floridian) summers, I am not
                                      Message 18 of 29 , May 27, 2013
                                        Okay, no activity on this list for a *long* time, so maybe you won't mind if I chatter a little bit?

                                        In the torpid Trimarian (Floridian) summers, I am not inclined to put on a hat and just want my hair off the neck. Greek is popular and the Roman Empire was done *beautifully* by a recent, beloved Crown. After wearing a sakkos (*GREAT* documentation source here: http://dspace.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/1880/46383/1/Thesis_Fischer.pdf) for 2 years, I really needed something new for our Crowne Lyst, held on Memorial Day weekend.

                                        This simple hair piece is 4 braids made from the Beauty Supply Store (you *must* bring a spotter when choosing fake hair, no matter how long your hair is!) They are sewn together into one long braid, and the top 3 coils of the coronet are then sewn together with wool thread. I left the bottom coil unsewn for 7/8 of its length, for adjustablility. Pinned up my very modern shoulder-length thick curly hair into a pony tail and dropped the braided coronet over the top, pinning the bottom coil for balance using hair screws (http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=goody+hair+spin+pin&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=1101079961&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13054655611042834504&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_bvs10xl1k_b)

                                        Now, the question is, do I have the nerve to do the Capitoline Venus at the next summer event in Trimaris? I might need some encouragement...

                                        Ambience is easy,
                                        and sometimes breezy,
                                        Ysabeau


                                        --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "rachelle_stephen" <rachelle.stephen@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I made 3 different sets of cauls, wearing floral foam, hollowed out (and NOT hollowed--ouch!) until I hit on a caul construction that suits my curly hair and low pain thresholds. I buy the biggest curlers I can find, use a hacksaw to shorten to desired length and then cover the shortened curler with 2 layers of chocolate brown nylon stockings. Braid hair supply store hair, saving those pesky single hairs taht *always* come out when making long braids... Apply spray adhesive to your headband (curly hair = metal headband!) and wrap with those single hairs. Unglue/unstick yourself from the headband and go to bed: the adhesive really does take 24 hours to dry...
                                        >
                                        > The next day, wire your headband into the holes in the curler that fit your head best. Pull down all the shades and walk around, singing 80's disco music, vacuum or empty the dishwasher to make sure your caul under-structure is secure and comfortable. THEN cover your stockinged curlers with braided hair and gold netting, if you have any.
                                        >
                                        > I store this headpiece in an empty dry (powder) detergent box, inside plastic grocery bags.
                                        >
                                        > Most importantly: you should enjoy wearing your hat or headpiece: if it's not comfortable, you're not going to wear it more than once...
                                        >
                                        > Loving the activity on this list,
                                        > think I'm going to forge ahead with my Christine de Pisan headpiece next... Thanks for the inspiration!
                                        >
                                        > --Ysabeau Durant, Trimaris
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "toriruhl" <truhl75@> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Perhaps she outgrew them? They were hand-me-downs?
                                        > > I don't think the craftsman who made them would want to be known as someone who made uncomfortable or I'll-fitted products.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Yvianne" wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I'm researching another topic right now, but I'm always on the lookout for
                                        > > > anything having to do with cauls. :-)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I recently read a thesis that vaguely resembles "Medieval Finds from
                                        > > > Excavations in London: Dress Accessories". It included pictures of an effigy
                                        > > > wearing cauls almost exactly like the ones I wear.... a metal band with
                                        > > > ovals hanging from the lower edge (some refer to them as strainer cauls or
                                        > > > Princess Leia style).
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The main difference is the ones on the effigy are smaller and worn so that
                                        > > > part of the ear sticks out the bottom. I see this occasionally but without
                                        > > > any discernable pattern that allows me to conclude it was a fad.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I've tried wearing cauls this way. It allows for better hearing... the down
                                        > > > side is: if you wear them mid ear, they do slightly rub against your
                                        > > > earlobe. Not so much that it hurts but they just feel weird. At the end of
                                        > > > the day, when you take off the cauls, you really notice it. Your earlobes
                                        > > > can be a bit touchy for days or even show a bit of bruising.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Something else I wonder about ... if this was how the ladies wanted the
                                        > > > cauls to look when they commissioned them, or whether they adjusted
                                        > > > themselves to this position??
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I've been wearing cauls for 15 years and have a lot of experience with that
                                        > > > particular phenomenon. ;-) If either the side pieces or headband are "off"
                                        > > > for the shape of your head or location of your ears the headpiece will move
                                        > > > to where it fits. Your hair will adjust to the cauls, not hold them in
                                        > > > place.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Sometimes you don't notice, sometimes the cauls are so uncomfortable to wear
                                        > > > any other way that you don't care. Since they couldn't just go to Wal-Mart
                                        > > > and exchange them, they would have worn them anyway.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I also have a pair of cauls that don't fit me quite right yet I continue to
                                        > > > wear them... often, for the past 8 years or so. It would have been a waste
                                        > > > time, effort but most of all, money to trash them and start over. I wear
                                        > > > them because it's what I have. A new headpiece is on my list of things to
                                        > > > do, but it keeps getting pushed to the back because they are wearable.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > When I have the time...
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I need to pursue other images of the lady in the effigy to see if I can find
                                        > > > other representations of her headwear. I'm curious if she wore cauls often,
                                        > > > if she wore other styles and if they always covered part of her ears.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I also plan on looking more information on the twisted wires that are shown
                                        > > > in the paper.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Oh, and I need a new pair of cauls ;-)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ... but for now, back to my other projects.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Yvianne
                                        > > > AEthelmearc
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                      • rachelle_stephen
                                        Dagnabbit, the whole point was to share photos this time... Photo illustrations for this conversation can be found in Ysabeau album. (doh!) Ysabeau
                                        Message 19 of 29 , May 27, 2013
                                          Dagnabbit, the whole point was to share photos this time...

                                          Photo illustrations for this conversation can be found in Ysabeau album.

                                          (doh!)
                                          Ysabeau

                                          --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "rachelle_stephen" <rachelle.stephen@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Okay, no activity on this list for a *long* time, so maybe you won't mind if I chatter a little bit?
                                          >
                                          > In the torpid Trimarian (Floridian) summers, I am not inclined to put on a hat and just want my hair off the neck. Greek is popular and the Roman Empire was done *beautifully* by a recent, beloved Crown. After wearing a sakkos (*GREAT* documentation source here: http://dspace.ucalgary.ca/bitstream/1880/46383/1/Thesis_Fischer.pdf) for 2 years, I really needed something new for our Crowne Lyst, held on Memorial Day weekend.
                                          >
                                          > This simple hair piece is 4 braids made from the Beauty Supply Store (you *must* bring a spotter when choosing fake hair, no matter how long your hair is!) They are sewn together into one long braid, and the top 3 coils of the coronet are then sewn together with wool thread. I left the bottom coil unsewn for 7/8 of its length, for adjustablility. Pinned up my very modern shoulder-length thick curly hair into a pony tail and dropped the braided coronet over the top, pinning the bottom coil for balance using hair screws (http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=goody+hair+spin+pin&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=1101079961&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13054655611042834504&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_bvs10xl1k_b)
                                          >
                                          > Now, the question is, do I have the nerve to do the Capitoline Venus at the next summer event in Trimaris? I might need some encouragement...
                                          >
                                          > Ambience is easy,
                                          > and sometimes breezy,
                                          > Ysabeau
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "rachelle_stephen" <rachelle.stephen@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > I made 3 different sets of cauls, wearing floral foam, hollowed out (and NOT hollowed--ouch!) until I hit on a caul construction that suits my curly hair and low pain thresholds. I buy the biggest curlers I can find, use a hacksaw to shorten to desired length and then cover the shortened curler with 2 layers of chocolate brown nylon stockings. Braid hair supply store hair, saving those pesky single hairs taht *always* come out when making long braids... Apply spray adhesive to your headband (curly hair = metal headband!) and wrap with those single hairs. Unglue/unstick yourself from the headband and go to bed: the adhesive really does take 24 hours to dry...
                                          > >
                                          > > The next day, wire your headband into the holes in the curler that fit your head best. Pull down all the shades and walk around, singing 80's disco music, vacuum or empty the dishwasher to make sure your caul under-structure is secure and comfortable. THEN cover your stockinged curlers with braided hair and gold netting, if you have any.
                                          > >
                                          > > I store this headpiece in an empty dry (powder) detergent box, inside plastic grocery bags.
                                          > >
                                          > > Most importantly: you should enjoy wearing your hat or headpiece: if it's not comfortable, you're not going to wear it more than once...
                                          > >
                                          > > Loving the activity on this list,
                                          > > think I'm going to forge ahead with my Christine de Pisan headpiece next... Thanks for the inspiration!
                                          > >
                                          > > --Ysabeau Durant, Trimaris
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "toriruhl" <truhl75@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > Perhaps she outgrew them? They were hand-me-downs?
                                          > > > I don't think the craftsman who made them would want to be known as someone who made uncomfortable or I'll-fitted products.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Yvianne" wrote:
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I'm researching another topic right now, but I'm always on the lookout for
                                          > > > > anything having to do with cauls. :-)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I recently read a thesis that vaguely resembles "Medieval Finds from
                                          > > > > Excavations in London: Dress Accessories". It included pictures of an effigy
                                          > > > > wearing cauls almost exactly like the ones I wear.... a metal band with
                                          > > > > ovals hanging from the lower edge (some refer to them as strainer cauls or
                                          > > > > Princess Leia style).
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > The main difference is the ones on the effigy are smaller and worn so that
                                          > > > > part of the ear sticks out the bottom. I see this occasionally but without
                                          > > > > any discernable pattern that allows me to conclude it was a fad.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I've tried wearing cauls this way. It allows for better hearing... the down
                                          > > > > side is: if you wear them mid ear, they do slightly rub against your
                                          > > > > earlobe. Not so much that it hurts but they just feel weird. At the end of
                                          > > > > the day, when you take off the cauls, you really notice it. Your earlobes
                                          > > > > can be a bit touchy for days or even show a bit of bruising.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Something else I wonder about ... if this was how the ladies wanted the
                                          > > > > cauls to look when they commissioned them, or whether they adjusted
                                          > > > > themselves to this position??
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I've been wearing cauls for 15 years and have a lot of experience with that
                                          > > > > particular phenomenon. ;-) If either the side pieces or headband are "off"
                                          > > > > for the shape of your head or location of your ears the headpiece will move
                                          > > > > to where it fits. Your hair will adjust to the cauls, not hold them in
                                          > > > > place.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Sometimes you don't notice, sometimes the cauls are so uncomfortable to wear
                                          > > > > any other way that you don't care. Since they couldn't just go to Wal-Mart
                                          > > > > and exchange them, they would have worn them anyway.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I also have a pair of cauls that don't fit me quite right yet I continue to
                                          > > > > wear them... often, for the past 8 years or so. It would have been a waste
                                          > > > > time, effort but most of all, money to trash them and start over. I wear
                                          > > > > them because it's what I have. A new headpiece is on my list of things to
                                          > > > > do, but it keeps getting pushed to the back because they are wearable.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > When I have the time...
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I need to pursue other images of the lady in the effigy to see if I can find
                                          > > > > other representations of her headwear. I'm curious if she wore cauls often,
                                          > > > > if she wore other styles and if they always covered part of her ears.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > I also plan on looking more information on the twisted wires that are shown
                                          > > > > in the paper.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Oh, and I need a new pair of cauls ;-)
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > ... but for now, back to my other projects.
                                          > > > >
                                          > > > > Yvianne
                                          > > > > AEthelmearc
                                          > > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
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