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Re: [SCA-Milliners] An absolute beginner

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  • Yvianne
    Mistress Aleea from AEthelmearc has a blue hat like that. http://www.faerybug.com/SCA/images/Crown_Tourney_10-11-03h.jpg I can t remember what she made it out
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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      Mistress Aleea from AEthelmearc has a blue hat like that.
      http://www.faerybug.com/SCA/images/Crown_Tourney_10-11-03h.jpg

      I can't remember what she made it out of, but I was able to find a web page
      that might help you get in touch with her to find out.

      http://www.lightlink.com/rhiannon/Fleurs/Fleur_individ_pgs/aleea_fleur.html

      If you can't reach her, contact me off list
      (yvianne-at-zoominternet-dot-net) and I'll see what I can do to help you out

      Yvianne
    • HL Caitlin nic Raighne
      Greetings Ula an Checheg. Welcome to the group! Her Majesty Maerwynn, Qatan of Calontir, wore a bogtaq for her coronation. You can see a picture here:
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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        Greetings Ula'an Checheg. Welcome to the group!

        Her Majesty Maerwynn, Qatan of Calontir, wore a bogtaq for her coronation. You can see a picture here: http://calontir.info/

        I don't know who made her coronation garments, but if you contact Her Majesty's Chamberlain,(TRM-Chamberlain@...) I bet she will know.

        Caitlin

        --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "airelledindiko" <airelledindiko@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi! I'm new to the group, have been lurking for a little while.
        >
        > I joined because I'm interested in learning to make a specific headdress for my persona, but I have absolutely no idea how to go about it. I have some images, and some quotes from sources, but I was hoping someone out there would be able to help me get started.
        >
        > The item I want to make is called a bogtaq (pronounced like botta), and was worn by high ranking married women in the mongol empire in the 13th and later centuries.
        >
        > >
        > Thank you in advance,
        >
        > Ula'an Checheg (Red Flower)
        > mka Rose K.
        >
      • Glynnis Hollindale
        Hello Rose Nice SCA name by the way! I am doing Mongol and have not progressed that far yet but intend to assemble a number of outfits form various times
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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          Hello Rose



          Nice SCA name by the way!



          I am doing Mongol and have not progressed that far yet but intend to
          assemble a number of outfits form various times periods for our next local
          Crown event in July. I have made a forehead piece in the lines of the
          Shanghai headdress and I am doing the beading of the plait covers at the
          moment.



          I would be very interested to share pictures and hear of your experiments.
          I have done some basket work and had planned on doing a slender wicker
          foundation, cover it with some light padding and then fabric.



          That is a very interesting portrait and the lines at the neck on the
          shirt/shift have always intrigued me. I have been suing a normal SCA style
          shirt while I concentrate on the outside layers.



          Glynnis



          ,___



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • airelledindiko
          Thanks everyone! I ve contacted Mistress Aleea, and Her Majesty s chamberlain, so hopefully I will hear from them soon. Sfandra, your comments were very
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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            Thanks everyone!

            I've contacted Mistress Aleea, and Her Majesty's chamberlain, so hopefully I will hear from them soon.

            Sfandra, your comments were very helpful. I have a little more of an idea of materials I can use.

            Glynnis, contact me offlist. I'd love to share notes. :D

            Ula'an Checheg (Red Flower)
            mka Rose K.

            --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Glynnis Hollindale" <glynnis@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Rose
            >
            >
            >
            > Nice SCA name by the way!
            >
            >
            >
            > I am doing Mongol and have not progressed that far yet but intend to
            > assemble a number of outfits form various times periods for our next local
            > Crown event in July. I have made a forehead piece in the lines of the
            > Shanghai headdress and I am doing the beading of the plait covers at the
            > moment.
            >
            >
            >
            > I would be very interested to share pictures and hear of your experiments.
            > I have done some basket work and had planned on doing a slender wicker
            > foundation, cover it with some light padding and then fabric.
            >
            >
            >
            > That is a very interesting portrait and the lines at the neck on the
            > shirt/shift have always intrigued me. I have been suing a normal SCA style
            > shirt while I concentrate on the outside layers.
            >
            >
            >
            > Glynnis
            >
            >
            >
            > ,___
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • sha_pirotess
            Hello there, I too have been somewhat lurking as I have had little time to do much in the way of research and hatmaking. However, time has allowed me to begin
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 3, 2011
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              Hello there,
              I too have been somewhat lurking as I have had little time to do much in the way of research and hatmaking. However, time has allowed me to begin my project anew. My obsession: the bogtaq. I have done tons of research and scoured for paintings under various spellings for the hat. Finally I have the confidence that I can reproduce a bogtaq in a period fasion.
              I think you will find this quote especially helpful:
              "...Called boghta, they were two to three feet in length, and like thier prototypes, gave ample scope for elaboration and decoration. We are fortunate in having two eyewitness accounts of the boghta from the year 1221 and one from 1237 which reveal the changing notions of fasion among the Mongols. The first, by Li Chih-chang, who accompanied the Taoist mong Ch'ang Ch'un to central Asia on his visit to Chinggis Qan, says that the "headdress of married women is made of birch [for the frame], reaching a height of two feet. Most often they cover it with coarse black wool [but] the wealthier ones use plain, red silk." The second, from Chao Hung, a Sung ambassador, relates that headgear of women of the ruling strata consists of an iron wire frame "about three feet in length, adorned with red and blue brocade [chin-hsiu] or with pearls." Some fifteen years later, Hsü T'ing, another Sung envoy, who personally witnessed the fabrication of ku-kus, reports that the frames were now wrapped "with red silk or gold brocade [chin-pai]." Clearly at the time of these observations a transition was taking place from plain native materials to more elegant and expensive ones made available by the Mongolian occupation of North China and the eastern Islamic world. Thereafter, as the empire continued its expansion, a wide variety of decorative materials bedecked the boghtas of Mongolian women, including velvet, buckram, gold embroidery, pearls and bird feathers."
              This exerpt is from the book Commodity and Exchange in the Mongol Empire: A Cultural History of Islamic Textiles. I have other texts discussing the origin of the hat and evidence speaking of how it inspired the hennin. But as we are speaking of it's construction, I think that this was a GREAT discription of how it can evolve through time and how the materials differed greatly. You can read a complete copy of this book for free via google books (a close friend of mine as free scholarly sources are always awesome!)
              Recently I have been constructing one incorperating the birch construction. Instead of a square on top that you see in some paintings and modern examples, I am doing the style that gently slopes to the base, like Chabi's. Some cheats had to be done for time/money/personal skills but I am using hobby birch plywood for the construction using sinew to sew it. I am making detailed instructions for construction to help others make it since this information is obviously much needed from what I have heard from other mongolian personas. If you want more information/trade notes, feel free to e-mail me as I am only able to check yahoo groups once in a great while but I check e-mail much more often.
              Sorry the post was so long but I'm hoping that all this helped!
            • Glynnis Hollindale
              Hello Folks I collecting images of padded head rolls and the associated clothing styles. I have created a folder on the Yahoo group for pictures and any
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 10, 2011
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                Hello Folks



                I collecting images of padded head rolls and the associated clothing styles.



                I have created a folder on the Yahoo group for pictures and any
                documentation that anyone is willing to share.



                The painted panel of Mary of Burgundy (Mary of Bourgogne 1457 to 1482) is
                the first one that came to hand but I am looking to build a library of
                images of different headrolls in different countries at different times and
                on more everyday people.



                Please feel free to either load images or send a message to this list with a
                URL or even a faint memory of where you saw something similar.



                A specific request to Cindy Peterson - May I put a copy of your
                documentation for the "horn caul" in to this folder. It would be very much
                appreciated if you could add the photos that you mentions were attachments
                to the original competition entry. A photo of the entry itself would be
                very nice.



                Thank you for your assistance in this matter,



                Glynnis













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