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An absolute beginner

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  • airelledindiko
    Hi! I m new to the group, have been lurking for a little while. I joined because I m interested in learning to make a specific headdress for my persona, but I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 23, 2011
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      Hi! I'm new to the group, have been lurking for a little while.

      I joined because I'm interested in learning to make a specific headdress for my persona, but I have absolutely no idea how to go about it. I have some images, and some quotes from sources, but I was hoping someone out there would be able to help me get started.

      The item I want to make is called a bogtaq (pronounced like botta), and was worn by high ranking married women in the mongol empire in the 13th and later centuries.

      here is an artist's depiction of Empress Chabi, wife of Kublai Khan:

      http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:YuanEmpressAlbumChabi.jpg

      A museum piece:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mongols_clothes_man_and_woman.jpg

      Some modern women wearing their boqtaq for a parade or demonstration:

      http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e189/anda_mn/Mongolian%20people/fd2bacea50410ba21f39cc8659738a7c.jpg

      And, just for the fun of it, here's one from a Lifetime Movie called Marco Polo (the movie was terrible, I think they spent all their money on costumes and location, which honestly is fine by me, since it means everything was made by local costumers):

      http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y261/Airelle/Marco%20and%20His%20Fantabulous%20Hats/vlcsnap-2010-10-02-00h30m59s219.png

      Now, some quotes:

      From "The Mission of Friar William of Rubrick: His journey to the court of the Great Khan Mongke, 1253-1255", as translated by Peter Jackson:

      "In addition they have a headdress called a bocca and made of tree bark or some lighter material if they can find it. It is thick and round, two hands in circumference and one cubit more high, and square at the top like the capital of a column. They cover this bocca with expensive silk cloth: it is hollow inside, and on the capital in the middle, or on the square part, they put a sheaf of quills or thin reeds, again a cubit or more in length. And they decorate this sheaf at the top with a peacock's feathers and around it's shaft [per longum in circuitu] with the little feathers from a mallard's tail and even precious stones. This decoration is worn on top of the head by rich ladies: they fasten it on securely with a fur hood [almucia] which has a hole at the top made for this purpose, and in it they put up their hair, gathering it from the back onto the top of the head in a kind of knot and placing over it the bocca, which is then tied firmly at the throat. Consequently, when a number of ladies together are out riding and are seen from a distance, they resemble knights with helmets on their heads and raised lances: for this bocca looks like a helmet and the sheaf [protruding] above like a lance."

      from "The Story of the Mongols whom We Call the Tartars" by Friar Giovanni DiPlano Carpini as translated by Erik Hildinger:

      "Women who are married have a very full tunic right to the ground cut open down the front. They wear a round thing made of basketry or bark on the head which stands up a foot and a half and at the top spreads into four. From the base to the top it grows wider and at the top it has a long and graceful wand of gold, silver, wood or even feathers and it is sewed onto a cap which drapes down to the shoulders. And this cap, just like the outfit already described is either made of buckram, felt or silk."

      Those are the two sources that I have so far. Friar Giovanni visited the Mongol Empire from 1245-1247.

      Any help that anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.

      Thank you in advance,

      Ula'an Checheg (Red Flower)
      mka Rose K.
    • Sfandra
      As a project for the last reign of Duke Lucan & Duchess Jana in the East Kingdom, I and two others worked on a mongolian outfit for Her Grace, and a boqtaq was
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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        As a project for the last reign of Duke Lucan & Duchess Jana in the East Kingdom, I and two others worked on a mongolian outfit for Her Grace, and a boqtaq was intended to be part of that. However, it had to be wearable with the Eastern Crown. It was also made at about 1AM the night before the event by one of the ladies I was working with.

        The end result was a white leather asian dome hat, edged in dark fur, with the rising pillar also made of leather, which was then stuffed with storebought plush-animal stuffing to maintain it's shape (as the leather turned out to be chrome-tanned, and therefore would not harden in hot water). Alas, first, it came out more round pillar than square unfortunantely, and then it would .... droop.... from time to time, leading to a number of extremely off-color jokes about the 'enthusiasm' of her Majesty's hat....

        (If I can come up with an online image, I'll send it along).

        That said, if I were to make one anew... I would probably use modern materials -- buckram with milinery wiring, or plastic needlepoint canvas. I might be even tempted to take apart a pair of Mickey Mouse ears for the 'cap' part... and do note, there is almost always a chin-strap! I'd cover it with lightweight silk.

        It's an interesting project. If you do make one, I'd love to see it.

        Cheers,
        Sfandra Dmitrieva


        ******************
        Posadnitsa Sfandra Dmitrieva Chernigova
        KOE, OM, Haus VDK, East Kingdom
        http://sfandra.webs.com


        --- On Sun, 1/23/11, airelledindiko <airelledindiko@...> wrote:

        > From: airelledindiko <airelledindiko@...>
        > Subject: [SCA-Milliners] An absolute beginner
        >
        > I joined because I'm interested in learning to make a
        > specific headdress for my persona, but I have absolutely no
        > idea how to go about it. I have some images, and some quotes
        > from sources, but I was hoping someone out there would be
        > able to help me get started.
        >
        > The item I want to make is called a bogtaq (pronounced like
        > botta), and was worn by high ranking married women in the
        > mongol empire in the 13th and later centuries.
        >
        <SNIP>
        > Thank you in advance,
        >
        > Ula'an Checheg (Red Flower)
        > mka Rose K.
      • Yvianne
        Mistress Aleea from AEthelmearc has a blue hat like that. http://www.faerybug.com/SCA/images/Crown_Tourney_10-11-03h.jpg I can t remember what she made it out
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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          Mistress Aleea from AEthelmearc has a blue hat like that.
          http://www.faerybug.com/SCA/images/Crown_Tourney_10-11-03h.jpg

          I can't remember what she made it out of, but I was able to find a web page
          that might help you get in touch with her to find out.

          http://www.lightlink.com/rhiannon/Fleurs/Fleur_individ_pgs/aleea_fleur.html

          If you can't reach her, contact me off list
          (yvianne-at-zoominternet-dot-net) and I'll see what I can do to help you out

          Yvianne
        • HL Caitlin nic Raighne
          Greetings Ula an Checheg. Welcome to the group! Her Majesty Maerwynn, Qatan of Calontir, wore a bogtaq for her coronation. You can see a picture here:
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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            Greetings Ula'an Checheg. Welcome to the group!

            Her Majesty Maerwynn, Qatan of Calontir, wore a bogtaq for her coronation. You can see a picture here: http://calontir.info/

            I don't know who made her coronation garments, but if you contact Her Majesty's Chamberlain,(TRM-Chamberlain@...) I bet she will know.

            Caitlin

            --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "airelledindiko" <airelledindiko@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi! I'm new to the group, have been lurking for a little while.
            >
            > I joined because I'm interested in learning to make a specific headdress for my persona, but I have absolutely no idea how to go about it. I have some images, and some quotes from sources, but I was hoping someone out there would be able to help me get started.
            >
            > The item I want to make is called a bogtaq (pronounced like botta), and was worn by high ranking married women in the mongol empire in the 13th and later centuries.
            >
            > >
            > Thank you in advance,
            >
            > Ula'an Checheg (Red Flower)
            > mka Rose K.
            >
          • Glynnis Hollindale
            Hello Rose Nice SCA name by the way! I am doing Mongol and have not progressed that far yet but intend to assemble a number of outfits form various times
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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              Hello Rose



              Nice SCA name by the way!



              I am doing Mongol and have not progressed that far yet but intend to
              assemble a number of outfits form various times periods for our next local
              Crown event in July. I have made a forehead piece in the lines of the
              Shanghai headdress and I am doing the beading of the plait covers at the
              moment.



              I would be very interested to share pictures and hear of your experiments.
              I have done some basket work and had planned on doing a slender wicker
              foundation, cover it with some light padding and then fabric.



              That is a very interesting portrait and the lines at the neck on the
              shirt/shift have always intrigued me. I have been suing a normal SCA style
              shirt while I concentrate on the outside layers.



              Glynnis



              ,___



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • airelledindiko
              Thanks everyone! I ve contacted Mistress Aleea, and Her Majesty s chamberlain, so hopefully I will hear from them soon. Sfandra, your comments were very
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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                Thanks everyone!

                I've contacted Mistress Aleea, and Her Majesty's chamberlain, so hopefully I will hear from them soon.

                Sfandra, your comments were very helpful. I have a little more of an idea of materials I can use.

                Glynnis, contact me offlist. I'd love to share notes. :D

                Ula'an Checheg (Red Flower)
                mka Rose K.

                --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Glynnis Hollindale" <glynnis@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Rose
                >
                >
                >
                > Nice SCA name by the way!
                >
                >
                >
                > I am doing Mongol and have not progressed that far yet but intend to
                > assemble a number of outfits form various times periods for our next local
                > Crown event in July. I have made a forehead piece in the lines of the
                > Shanghai headdress and I am doing the beading of the plait covers at the
                > moment.
                >
                >
                >
                > I would be very interested to share pictures and hear of your experiments.
                > I have done some basket work and had planned on doing a slender wicker
                > foundation, cover it with some light padding and then fabric.
                >
                >
                >
                > That is a very interesting portrait and the lines at the neck on the
                > shirt/shift have always intrigued me. I have been suing a normal SCA style
                > shirt while I concentrate on the outside layers.
                >
                >
                >
                > Glynnis
                >
                >
                >
                > ,___
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • sha_pirotess
                Hello there, I too have been somewhat lurking as I have had little time to do much in the way of research and hatmaking. However, time has allowed me to begin
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 3, 2011
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                  Hello there,
                  I too have been somewhat lurking as I have had little time to do much in the way of research and hatmaking. However, time has allowed me to begin my project anew. My obsession: the bogtaq. I have done tons of research and scoured for paintings under various spellings for the hat. Finally I have the confidence that I can reproduce a bogtaq in a period fasion.
                  I think you will find this quote especially helpful:
                  "...Called boghta, they were two to three feet in length, and like thier prototypes, gave ample scope for elaboration and decoration. We are fortunate in having two eyewitness accounts of the boghta from the year 1221 and one from 1237 which reveal the changing notions of fasion among the Mongols. The first, by Li Chih-chang, who accompanied the Taoist mong Ch'ang Ch'un to central Asia on his visit to Chinggis Qan, says that the "headdress of married women is made of birch [for the frame], reaching a height of two feet. Most often they cover it with coarse black wool [but] the wealthier ones use plain, red silk." The second, from Chao Hung, a Sung ambassador, relates that headgear of women of the ruling strata consists of an iron wire frame "about three feet in length, adorned with red and blue brocade [chin-hsiu] or with pearls." Some fifteen years later, Hsü T'ing, another Sung envoy, who personally witnessed the fabrication of ku-kus, reports that the frames were now wrapped "with red silk or gold brocade [chin-pai]." Clearly at the time of these observations a transition was taking place from plain native materials to more elegant and expensive ones made available by the Mongolian occupation of North China and the eastern Islamic world. Thereafter, as the empire continued its expansion, a wide variety of decorative materials bedecked the boghtas of Mongolian women, including velvet, buckram, gold embroidery, pearls and bird feathers."
                  This exerpt is from the book Commodity and Exchange in the Mongol Empire: A Cultural History of Islamic Textiles. I have other texts discussing the origin of the hat and evidence speaking of how it inspired the hennin. But as we are speaking of it's construction, I think that this was a GREAT discription of how it can evolve through time and how the materials differed greatly. You can read a complete copy of this book for free via google books (a close friend of mine as free scholarly sources are always awesome!)
                  Recently I have been constructing one incorperating the birch construction. Instead of a square on top that you see in some paintings and modern examples, I am doing the style that gently slopes to the base, like Chabi's. Some cheats had to be done for time/money/personal skills but I am using hobby birch plywood for the construction using sinew to sew it. I am making detailed instructions for construction to help others make it since this information is obviously much needed from what I have heard from other mongolian personas. If you want more information/trade notes, feel free to e-mail me as I am only able to check yahoo groups once in a great while but I check e-mail much more often.
                  Sorry the post was so long but I'm hoping that all this helped!
                • Glynnis Hollindale
                  Hello Folks I collecting images of padded head rolls and the associated clothing styles. I have created a folder on the Yahoo group for pictures and any
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 10, 2011
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                    Hello Folks



                    I collecting images of padded head rolls and the associated clothing styles.



                    I have created a folder on the Yahoo group for pictures and any
                    documentation that anyone is willing to share.



                    The painted panel of Mary of Burgundy (Mary of Bourgogne 1457 to 1482) is
                    the first one that came to hand but I am looking to build a library of
                    images of different headrolls in different countries at different times and
                    on more everyday people.



                    Please feel free to either load images or send a message to this list with a
                    URL or even a faint memory of where you saw something similar.



                    A specific request to Cindy Peterson - May I put a copy of your
                    documentation for the "horn caul" in to this folder. It would be very much
                    appreciated if you could add the photos that you mentions were attachments
                    to the original competition entry. A photo of the entry itself would be
                    very nice.



                    Thank you for your assistance in this matter,



                    Glynnis













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