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Re: pillbox hat

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  • Yvianne
    Depends on the type of hat :-) I ve used everything from reed and fully formed baskets to brass frames that I ve hand beaten from wire and formed into the
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
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      Depends on the type of hat :-)

      I've used everything from reed and fully formed baskets to brass
      frames that I've hand beaten from wire and formed into the shapes
      I needed. I've worked with felt (store bought and hand made),
      buckram, layering and quilted material (stuffed and unstuffed).

      The only thing I have yet to try, and really want to when I have
      the time, is fabric stiffened with hide glue... which I haven't
      been able to document but is a theory I've contemplated for a
      long time. An idea born from a cross arts mind melt - I'm a
      scribe and vellum maker as well as a costumer/milliner. It truly
      was one of those, "Hey, you got your chocolate in my peanut
      butter... " moments :-) If anyone has tried fabric stiffened
      with hide glue I'd love to hear about your experience.

      While I'm usually firmly against back documenting any project,
      because of the lack of information available about period hats,
      I've found it much easier to make a hat using modern materials
      and then work backwards towards a plausible reconstruction of a
      period item.

      When it comes to hats I feel that:
      Any attempt is much better than none.
      If it looks and feels right ... Kudos, keep up the good work.
      If it's documentable ... Wow, You ROCK!! :-)

      Yvianne
      AEthelmearc

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Samia al-Kaslaania" <samia@...>
      To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:16 AM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat


      > And if you are using period materials?
      >
      > Samia
      >
      > Yvianne wrote:
      >> If I'm not using period materials, I usually opt for metal
      >> window
      >> screen as a substitute for buckram. The weave is so fine that
      >> it
      >> doesn't show on most fabrics and if/when a hat gets crushed in
      >> my
      >> bag I can easily work it back into shape with my fingers.
      >>
    • Cynthia Virtue
      ... http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cv_bourgone.jpg Has some (low quality) pictures of some of the types I ve used. Also
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
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        Salli Weston, Scott Theisen wrote:
        > Wicker baskets for plant. they make great hennin among other things and
        > straw is a period material for at least the western worls.
        >

        http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cv_bourgone.jpg

        Has some (low quality) pictures of some of the types I've used.

        Also
        http://www.virtue.to/articles/straw.html

        Shows one method of using straw hats to make a heart-shaped "saddle" hennin.

        --

        Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent


        "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81

        "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
      • Leah Lloyd
        Haven t tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca 
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
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          Haven't tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca  http://silverrylle.eastkingdom.org/research/index.html%c2%a0

          Danabren
          East



          From: Yvianne <yvianne@...>
          Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat
          To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 11:18 AM









          The only thing I have yet to try, and really want to when I have
          the time, is fabric stiffened with hide glue... which I haven't
          been able to document but is a theory I've contemplated for a
          long time. An idea born from a cross arts mind melt - I'm a
          scribe and vellum maker as well as a costumer/milliner. It truly
          was one of those, "Hey, you got your chocolate in my peanut
          butter... " moments :-) If anyone has tried fabric stiffened
          with hide glue I'd love to hear about your experience.





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        • Yvianne
          There s this extant vellum form too http://www.hf.uib.no/i/nordisk/handbok/illustrasjonar/Ill_1-7_(bispehatt).jpg I love all of the holes from where the
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
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            There's this extant vellum form too
            http://www.hf.uib.no/i/nordisk/handbok/illustrasjonar/Ill_1-7_(bispehatt).jpg
            I love all of the holes from where the covering and
            embellishments were once attached.
            If you look closely on the right hand side you can see a tiny bit
            of the stitches that hold the edges of the vellum together

            Funny, I always seem to have better things to do with vellum.
            Which reminds me ... if I don't quit chatting about hats I'll
            never have the scroll I'm working on done for Saturday's event.

            Off to the easel :-)

            Yvianne

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Leah Lloyd" <danabren@...>
            To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:49 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat


            Haven't tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East
            Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca
            http://silverrylle.eastkingdom.org/research/index.html

            Danabren
            East
          • unclrashid
            I haven t used hide glue for hats, but I have used it for gilding. It has a vaguely unpleasant smell, sort of in-between dog food and meat that s a bit off.
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 17, 2009
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              I haven't used hide glue for hats, but I have used it for gilding. It has a vaguely unpleasant smell, sort of in-between dog food and meat that's a bit off. It's not a strong smell, but still, it's made me hesitate. The smell goes away when it dries, but I have to wonder if it would return if you got your hat all warm and sweaty.

              Rashid


              --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Leah Lloyd <danabren@...> wrote:
              >
              > Haven't tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca  http://silverrylle.eastkingdom.org/research/index.html%c2%a0
              >
              > Danabren
              > East
              >
              >
            • Yvianne
              From what I know from vellum making and scribal arts... Deer vellum smells like venison for about a year then the odor disappears. Goat has a surprisingly
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 19, 2009
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                From what I know from vellum making and scribal arts...

                Deer vellum smells like venison for about a year then the odor
                disappears.
                Goat has a surprisingly pleasant, smell when it's first made but
                that goes away in a few weeks.
                Sheep skin is greasy. There's not much of a scent but I can see
                where it has the potential to go rancid as any residual oil ages.
                I've never rewet a piece of deer or sheep after more that a year
                has passed. The goat skin parchment I did rewet had no noticeable
                odor... much to my dismay since it originally smelled like
                incense, without the smoke.

                I've never experienced the smell you describe in hide glue. I'm
                curious if you make your own or buy it in dried or liquid form?
                The only time I've had trouble with the smell of hide glue is
                when I was heating it and didn't stir it as often as I should
                have. It smelled like burnt hair ... I couldn't get it outside
                and in the garbage fast enough.

                Yvianne
                AEthelmearc


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "unclrashid" <unclrashid@...>
                To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 9:52 AM
                Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat


                I haven't used hide glue for hats, but I have used it for
                gilding. It has a vaguely unpleasant smell, sort of in-between
                dog food and meat that's a bit off. It's not a strong smell, but
                still, it's made me hesitate. The smell goes away when it dries,
                but I have to wonder if it would return if you got your hat all
                warm and sweaty.

                Rashid
              • Dianne
                If I m not using period materials, I usually opt for metal window screen as a substitute for buckram. The weave is so fine that it doesn t show on most fabrics
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 20, 2009
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                  If I'm not using period materials, I usually opt for metal window
                  screen as a substitute for buckram. The weave is so fine that it
                  doesn't show on most fabrics and if/when a hat gets crushed in my
                  bag I can easily work it back into shape with my fingers.

                  It is as light but stiffer than buckram, waterproof, easy to work
                  with and can be cut with general purpose scissors. One thing I
                  don't like about it is that the ends of the tiny wires are pretty
                  sharp. I fold the edges over on themselves and cover the sharp
                  bits with a narrow piece of duct tape.

                  Regards,
                  Yvianne >>

                  That's brilliant. I hate working with plastic canvas.

                  Laurensa

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • unclrashid
                  ... I was using dried pellets of rabbit-skin glue. It might be that it was old when I bought it. Or it may just be a factor of what smells you like and what
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 20, 2009
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                    --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Yvianne" <yvianne@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I've never experienced the smell you describe in hide glue. I'm
                    > curious if you make your own or buy it in dried or liquid form?
                    > The only time I've had trouble with the smell of hide glue is
                    > when I was heating it and didn't stir it as often as I should
                    > have. It smelled like burnt hair ... I couldn't get it outside
                    > and in the garbage fast enough.
                    >

                    I was using dried pellets of rabbit-skin glue. It might be that it was old when I bought it. Or it may just be a factor of what smells you like and what you don't like. I dislike the smell of many "natural" soaps because they have an underote that strikes me as "meaty". I'm not sure if it comes from the glycerin or the oil. I also don't care for the smell of raw meat.

                    Rashid
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