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Re: pillbox hat

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  • Yvianne
    Depends on the type of hat :-) I ve used everything from reed and fully formed baskets to brass frames that I ve hand beaten from wire and formed into the
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
      Depends on the type of hat :-)

      I've used everything from reed and fully formed baskets to brass
      frames that I've hand beaten from wire and formed into the shapes
      I needed. I've worked with felt (store bought and hand made),
      buckram, layering and quilted material (stuffed and unstuffed).

      The only thing I have yet to try, and really want to when I have
      the time, is fabric stiffened with hide glue... which I haven't
      been able to document but is a theory I've contemplated for a
      long time. An idea born from a cross arts mind melt - I'm a
      scribe and vellum maker as well as a costumer/milliner. It truly
      was one of those, "Hey, you got your chocolate in my peanut
      butter... " moments :-) If anyone has tried fabric stiffened
      with hide glue I'd love to hear about your experience.

      While I'm usually firmly against back documenting any project,
      because of the lack of information available about period hats,
      I've found it much easier to make a hat using modern materials
      and then work backwards towards a plausible reconstruction of a
      period item.

      When it comes to hats I feel that:
      Any attempt is much better than none.
      If it looks and feels right ... Kudos, keep up the good work.
      If it's documentable ... Wow, You ROCK!! :-)

      Yvianne
      AEthelmearc

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Samia al-Kaslaania" <samia@...>
      To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 10:16 AM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat


      > And if you are using period materials?
      >
      > Samia
      >
      > Yvianne wrote:
      >> If I'm not using period materials, I usually opt for metal
      >> window
      >> screen as a substitute for buckram. The weave is so fine that
      >> it
      >> doesn't show on most fabrics and if/when a hat gets crushed in
      >> my
      >> bag I can easily work it back into shape with my fingers.
      >>
    • Christine Taylor
      Plastic needlepoint canvas has been my shifty little secret for years. I have used it for pillboxes/brimless hats, French hoods, tall hats, and hennins. Great
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
        Plastic needlepoint canvas has been my shifty little secret for years. I
        have used it for pillboxes/brimless hats, French hoods, tall hats, and
        hennins. Great stuff! The only time I have a problem was when my 70-pound
        dog with the big teeth got hold of my hennin and killed the nasty thing.
        *sigh* (Worry not, I didn't kill the dog.) Anyway, works great.

        Caitlin

        -----Original Message-----
        From: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf Of Caitriona Campbell
        Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:34 AM
        To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] pillbox hat

        Samia,
             I know it's not period, but I perspire heavily and have the same
        problem with wilting buckram so I know what you mean.  I've used plastic
        canvas with great success in holding shape as intended.  You just need to
        make sure that the fabric is thick enough to hide the distinct pattern of
        the plastic underneath.  I only use it for the stand-up side and leave the
        top fabric only.

        Caitriona, Karen, DragonLady
        (My personality trinity)
      • Cynthia Virtue
        ... http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cv_bourgone.jpg Has some (low quality) pictures of some of the types I ve used. Also
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
          Salli Weston, Scott Theisen wrote:
          > Wicker baskets for plant. they make great hennin among other things and
          > straw is a period material for at least the western worls.
          >

          http://www.virtue.to/articles/images/cv_bourgone.jpg

          Has some (low quality) pictures of some of the types I've used.

          Also
          http://www.virtue.to/articles/straw.html

          Shows one method of using straw hats to make a heart-shaped "saddle" hennin.

          --

          Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent


          "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81

          "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
        • Leah Lloyd
          Haven t tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca 
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
            Haven't tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca  http://silverrylle.eastkingdom.org/research/index.html%c2%a0

            Danabren
            East



            From: Yvianne <yvianne@...>
            Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat
            To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 11:18 AM









            The only thing I have yet to try, and really want to when I have
            the time, is fabric stiffened with hide glue... which I haven't
            been able to document but is a theory I've contemplated for a
            long time. An idea born from a cross arts mind melt - I'm a
            scribe and vellum maker as well as a costumer/milliner. It truly
            was one of those, "Hey, you got your chocolate in my peanut
            butter... " moments :-) If anyone has tried fabric stiffened
            with hide glue I'd love to hear about your experience.





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Yvianne
            There s this extant vellum form too http://www.hf.uib.no/i/nordisk/handbok/illustrasjonar/Ill_1-7_(bispehatt).jpg I love all of the holes from where the
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 15, 2009
              There's this extant vellum form too
              http://www.hf.uib.no/i/nordisk/handbok/illustrasjonar/Ill_1-7_(bispehatt).jpg
              I love all of the holes from where the covering and
              embellishments were once attached.
              If you look closely on the right hand side you can see a tiny bit
              of the stitches that hold the edges of the vellum together

              Funny, I always seem to have better things to do with vellum.
              Which reminds me ... if I don't quit chatting about hats I'll
              never have the scroll I'm working on done for Saturday's event.

              Off to the easel :-)

              Yvianne

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Leah Lloyd" <danabren@...>
              To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 11:49 AM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat


              Haven't tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East
              Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca
              http://silverrylle.eastkingdom.org/research/index.html

              Danabren
              East
            • unclrashid
              I haven t used hide glue for hats, but I have used it for gilding. It has a vaguely unpleasant smell, sort of in-between dog food and meat that s a bit off.
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 17, 2009
                I haven't used hide glue for hats, but I have used it for gilding. It has a vaguely unpleasant smell, sort of in-between dog food and meat that's a bit off. It's not a strong smell, but still, it's made me hesitate. The smell goes away when it dries, but I have to wonder if it would return if you got your hat all warm and sweaty.

                Rashid


                --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Leah Lloyd <danabren@...> wrote:
                >
                > Haven't tried hide glue yet, but Mistress Isabel of the East Kingdom used parchment as a base for her pleated toca  http://silverrylle.eastkingdom.org/research/index.html%c2%a0
                >
                > Danabren
                > East
                >
                >
              • Yvianne
                From what I know from vellum making and scribal arts... Deer vellum smells like venison for about a year then the odor disappears. Goat has a surprisingly
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 19, 2009
                  From what I know from vellum making and scribal arts...

                  Deer vellum smells like venison for about a year then the odor
                  disappears.
                  Goat has a surprisingly pleasant, smell when it's first made but
                  that goes away in a few weeks.
                  Sheep skin is greasy. There's not much of a scent but I can see
                  where it has the potential to go rancid as any residual oil ages.
                  I've never rewet a piece of deer or sheep after more that a year
                  has passed. The goat skin parchment I did rewet had no noticeable
                  odor... much to my dismay since it originally smelled like
                  incense, without the smoke.

                  I've never experienced the smell you describe in hide glue. I'm
                  curious if you make your own or buy it in dried or liquid form?
                  The only time I've had trouble with the smell of hide glue is
                  when I was heating it and didn't stir it as often as I should
                  have. It smelled like burnt hair ... I couldn't get it outside
                  and in the garbage fast enough.

                  Yvianne
                  AEthelmearc


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "unclrashid" <unclrashid@...>
                  To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 9:52 AM
                  Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: pillbox hat


                  I haven't used hide glue for hats, but I have used it for
                  gilding. It has a vaguely unpleasant smell, sort of in-between
                  dog food and meat that's a bit off. It's not a strong smell, but
                  still, it's made me hesitate. The smell goes away when it dries,
                  but I have to wonder if it would return if you got your hat all
                  warm and sweaty.

                  Rashid
                • Dianne
                  If I m not using period materials, I usually opt for metal window screen as a substitute for buckram. The weave is so fine that it doesn t show on most fabrics
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 20, 2009
                    If I'm not using period materials, I usually opt for metal window
                    screen as a substitute for buckram. The weave is so fine that it
                    doesn't show on most fabrics and if/when a hat gets crushed in my
                    bag I can easily work it back into shape with my fingers.

                    It is as light but stiffer than buckram, waterproof, easy to work
                    with and can be cut with general purpose scissors. One thing I
                    don't like about it is that the ends of the tiny wires are pretty
                    sharp. I fold the edges over on themselves and cover the sharp
                    bits with a narrow piece of duct tape.

                    Regards,
                    Yvianne >>

                    That's brilliant. I hate working with plastic canvas.

                    Laurensa

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • unclrashid
                    ... I was using dried pellets of rabbit-skin glue. It might be that it was old when I bought it. Or it may just be a factor of what smells you like and what
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 20, 2009
                      --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Yvianne" <yvianne@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I've never experienced the smell you describe in hide glue. I'm
                      > curious if you make your own or buy it in dried or liquid form?
                      > The only time I've had trouble with the smell of hide glue is
                      > when I was heating it and didn't stir it as often as I should
                      > have. It smelled like burnt hair ... I couldn't get it outside
                      > and in the garbage fast enough.
                      >

                      I was using dried pellets of rabbit-skin glue. It might be that it was old when I bought it. Or it may just be a factor of what smells you like and what you don't like. I dislike the smell of many "natural" soaps because they have an underote that strikes me as "meaty". I'm not sure if it comes from the glycerin or the oil. I also don't care for the smell of raw meat.

                      Rashid
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