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Barbettes

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  • Masters, Cheryl L FC
    Greetings to the List, I believe what I am thinking of is called Barbettes. I am thinking of the bands that go around the head. One beneath the chin and one
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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      Greetings to the List,

      I believe what I am thinking of is called Barbettes. I am thinking
      of the bands that go around the head. One beneath the chin and one around
      the crown. Is there any reason to think these would NOT have been tablet
      woven?

      Thank you for your time.

      Sile
    • Cynthia Virtue
      ... Barbette means little beard , I think, and most folks think of it as the chin strap portion of the bands to anchor the veil (or to anchor a coffee filter
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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        Masters, Cheryl L FC wrote:
        > Greetings to the List,
        >
        > I believe what I am thinking of is called Barbettes. I am thinking
        > of the bands that go around the head. One beneath the chin and one around
        > the crown. Is there any reason to think these would NOT have been tablet
        > woven?
        >
        Barbette means 'little beard', I think, and most folks think of it as
        the chin strap portion of the bands to anchor the veil (or to anchor a
        coffee filter type hat.)

        Tablet woven is an intriguing idea, however, that seems like a lot of
        effort for something which is 1: generally white and 2: could be made
        out of offcuts. But it might make an interesting variation.

        Cynthia
      • Masters, Cheryl L FC
        Tablet weaving is what I do and it seems easier to me than sewing a bit of cloth into the right configuration. One color, four up four back, repeat and I m
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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          Tablet weaving is what I do and it seems easier to me than sewing a
          bit of cloth into the right configuration. One color, four up four back,
          repeat and I'm done.

          I bought a lap size loom last weekend and am anxious to get it
          stained and varnished so I can start using it.

          Sile


          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cynthia Virtue
          > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 7:09 AM
          > To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Barbettes
          >
          > Masters, Cheryl L FC wrote:
          > > Greetings to the List,
          > >
          > > I believe what I am thinking of is called Barbettes. I am
          > thinking of
          > > the bands that go around the head. One beneath the chin and
          > one around
          > > the crown. Is there any reason to think these would NOT have been
          > > tablet woven?
          > >
          > Barbette means 'little beard', I think, and most folks think
          > of it as the chin strap portion of the bands to anchor the
          > veil (or to anchor a coffee filter type hat.)
          >
          > Tablet woven is an intriguing idea, however, that seems like
          > a lot of effort for something which is 1: generally white and
          > 2: could be made out of offcuts. But it might make an
          > interesting variation.
          >
          > Cynthia
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Cynthia Virtue
          ... Cool. What sort of thread/fiber do you use? And how wide? My (sewn) bands are 1 wide for the head and 2 wide for the barbette, because I have a fat
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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            Masters, Cheryl L FC wrote:
            > Tablet weaving is what I do and it seems easier to me than sewing a
            > bit of cloth into the right configuration. One color, four up four back,
            > repeat and I'm done.
            >
            Cool. What sort of thread/fiber do you use? And how wide? My (sewn)
            bands are 1" wide for the head and 2" wide for the barbette, because I
            have a fat chin. ;)

            cv

            --
            Vandeverre's Emporium, Caledon II: for a subset of your Medieval and
            Victorian Second Life needs!
          • Masters, Cheryl L FC
            I ll be doing this project in a soft creamy linen. It is not exactly white if I recall and will be about an inch and a half wide. Don t know if I have enough
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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              I'll be doing this project in a soft creamy linen. It is not exactly
              white if I recall and will be about an inch and a half wide. Don't know if I
              have enough cards for 2 inches in Linen although I did just buy a new set.
              If I can get 2 inches on this new lap top loom I bought last weekend it will
              allow for the little pleat you see about ear hole high on some of the
              illuminations.

              Sile


              > Cool. What sort of thread/fiber do you use? And how wide? My
              > (sewn) bands are 1" wide for the head and 2" wide for the
              > barbette, because I have a fat chin. ;)
              >
              > cv
            • Cindy Myers
              Tablet woven bands tend to be stiffer than a single layer of fine linen fabric. Do you think this would affect the comfort of a band that goes over the head
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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                Tablet woven bands tend to be stiffer than a single layer of fine
                linen fabric. Do you think this would affect the comfort of a band
                that goes over the head and under the chin like that?

                Personally, I'm doubtful about the chin part being tablet woven when
                linen scraps were abundant in period. (Maybe not abundant for YOU as
                a modern person... but should our modern challenges be used to
                explain what a medieval person -might- have done? I'm not convinced
                with the logic there.) On the other hand, there IS evidence for
                tablet weaving the band around the head, at least in the 14th
                century. Second, there's not much evidence for plain, white, tablet
                weaving with no pattern at all. The width you mention is also rare,
                although not unheard of. All I can say is I'm not convinced - but
                what you do is your own choice! :)

                Related question:

                This isn't a style I normally wear, and the last time I remember
                trying it was a good 6 years ago so I don't have much experience here.

                I probably made mine too tight, because I found my hearing muffled,
                and it was awkward to eat or talk! Not impossible though - it wasn't
                THAT snug, but I didn't want it hanging loose under my chin either. ;)

                Since then I've been wondering if I should have cut the chin band on
                the bias, to allow for a close fit -and- easy movement. How do
                others cut theirs?

                Curious...

                --Emmelyne


                > I'll be doing this project in a soft creamy linen. It is not exactly
                > white if I recall and will be about an inch and a half wide. Don't
                > know if I
                > have enough cards for 2 inches in Linen although I did just buy a
                > new set.
                > If I can get 2 inches on this new lap top loom I bought last
                > weekend it will
                > allow for the little pleat you see about ear hole high on some of the
                > illuminations.
                >
                > Sile
                >
                >
                >> Cool. What sort of thread/fiber do you use? And how wide? My
                >> (sewn) bands are 1" wide for the head and 2" wide for the
                >> barbette, because I have a fat chin. ;)
                >>
                >> cv
              • Renee
                I haven t been playing much recently, but I did cut mine on the bias and found it comfy enough. I cut and sewed mine as a wide tube, turned it inside out and
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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                  I haven't been playing much recently, but I did cut
                  mine on the bias and found it comfy enough. I cut and
                  sewed mine as a wide tube, turned it inside out and
                  then handfinished the ends (kind of like wide bias
                  tape, I guess). I then put it under my chin and pinned
                  it at the top of my head.

                  It was the wimple that drove me batty.

                  Renee

                  --- Cindy Myers <emmelyne@...> wrote:

                  > Since then I've been wondering if I should have cut
                  > the chin band on
                  > the bias, to allow for a close fit -and- easy
                  > movement. How do
                  > others cut theirs?



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                • Cynthia Virtue
                  ... I have mine on the straight grain, and have worn them this way for years. They are tubes of linen in a slightly thick weave (perhaps table napkin weight;
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 2, 2007
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                    Cindy Myers wrote:
                    > Since then I've been wondering if I should have cut the chin band on
                    > the bias, to allow for a close fit -and- easy movement. How do
                    > others cut theirs?
                    >

                    I have mine on the straight grain, and have worn them this way for
                    years. They are tubes of linen in a slightly thick weave (perhaps table
                    napkin weight; less than cotton denim) turned inside out. I pin it
                    firmly but not tightly to the forehead band.

                    It does muffle my hearing very slightly, but nothing compared to cauls!

                    If I wear a wimple, I pin that to the chin band, and then put the veil
                    on over everything in the usual manner.

                    (If people haven't seen my photo essay about wearing veils, you might
                    find it useful: http://www.virtue.to/articles/veils.html -- lots of
                    medieval and modern pictures.)

                    cv
                  • Masters, Cheryl L FC
                    Very good points. So, what I don t know, I know where to ask. Thank you all for your replies. Good thing I have a different piece on the loom. Gives me time
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 5, 2007
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                      Very good points. So, what I don't know, I know where to ask.

                      Thank you all for your replies. Good thing I have a different piece
                      on the loom. Gives me time to think. And you all have given me things to
                      think about. Ta.

                      Sile
                    • Masters, Cheryl L FC
                      I love my wimple. It is so snug and comfy. But I haven t worn a barbette with it. My wimple is a bit of a tube from around the face to the top most place on
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 5, 2007
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                        I love my wimple. It is so snug and comfy. But I haven't worn a
                        barbette with it. My wimple is a bit of a tube from around the face to the
                        top most place on the crown and a loose circle from there. I have lacings
                        from the center front down the midline of the back of the head that I love
                        the look of when it barely shows through the veil. Probably not period. But
                        I thought it looked so cool on that lovely blonde lady in a Brother Cadfile
                        episode that I had to have mine that way.

                        Ok, I went Hollywood.

                        Sile
                      • Cynthia Virtue
                        ... I m kind of a hat fanatic, but I think going for a Hollywood style veil is OK. Just putting one on in the first place is so many kinds of good, I m not
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 5, 2007
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                          Masters, Cheryl L FC wrote:
                          >
                          > Ok, I went Hollywood.
                          >

                          I'm kind of a hat fanatic, but I think going for a Hollywood style veil
                          is OK. Just putting one on in the first place is so many kinds of good,
                          I'm not the sort to quibble about the sources!

                          cv
                        • Suvituuli Sihvola
                          Hi! Sorry to reply so late, i´ve been quite busy organizing an event... ;) The first ones I made were rather thick linen, tubelike and muffled my hearing _a
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 16, 2007
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                            Hi!

                            Sorry to reply so late, i´ve been quite busy organizing an event... ;)

                            The first ones I made were rather thick linen, tubelike and muffled my hearing _a lot_. After little experimenting I made one with very thin linen, straight cut and narrow turn around the edges. I even shaped the band a little, it´s quite wide at ears and narrows under the chin. The front edge is straight, though. I´ve found this very confy, (althought I normally can´t stand anything close to my neck - no chance of wearing chokers ;) ) and it doesn´t muflle my hearing at all.

                            Eilgri


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