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French Hoods

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  • Madeleine Delacroix
    Someone has asked me about French Hood colors (Why I still can t figure out)anyway..I have read that you can use red, black or white after about 1540..or if
    Message 1 of 17 , May 9, 2007
      Someone has asked me about French Hood colors (Why I still can't figure
      out)anyway..I have read that you can use red, black or white after
      about 1540..or if you want..you can have it match the dress..but must
      have a black veil..I have looked over so many portraits my eyes are
      swimming..but haven't seen any hoods other than the first 3
      colors..have any of you made a hood and if so..have you always made
      them those colors, and if yes to that..does it matter that if doesn't
      match the dress??Her dress is emerald and I know she wants a green
      hood, but still wants to be period as well. Thanks

      Madeleine
    • Kimiko Small
      Hello Madeleine, I ve only found one color image that shows someone wearing a color for their French hood in gold, that happens to match her gown. She s also a
      Message 2 of 17 , May 10, 2007
        Hello Madeleine,

        I've only found one color image that shows someone wearing a color
        for their French hood in gold, that happens to match her gown. She's
        also a queen (not sure if she was Queen when her miniature was
        painted), which may skew things a bit, I don't know.
        http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1540/
        CatherineHoward.html
        Otherwise, yes, it seems the most common colors are white, red/pink,
        or black. The veil is always black, it seems (of course, someday we
        will find the exception to this "rule".

        And my very first French hood I made in blue velveteen, to match my
        blue gown. I also made it badly, with very flimsy buckram. But this
        was way before I knew better and did my research. Personally, making
        a hood in white or black, or even in red, means you can wear it with
        anything you make, not just the gown you made your matching hood for.
        YMMV.

        Joane Silvertoppe
        B. Nordwache, K. Caid
        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        mka Kimiko Small, Fresno, CA, USA
        A Gentlewoman's Warderobe Accounts
        http://www.kimiko1.com/warderobe.html




        On May 9, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Madeleine Delacroix wrote:

        > Someone has asked me about French Hood colors (Why I still can't
        > figure
        > out)anyway..I have read that you can use red, black or white after
        > about 1540..or if you want..you can have it match the dress..but must
        > have a black veil..I have looked over so many portraits my eyes are
        > swimming..but haven't seen any hoods other than the first 3
        > colors..have any of you made a hood and if so..have you always made
        > them those colors, and if yes to that..does it matter that if doesn't
        > match the dress??Her dress is emerald and I know she wants a green
        > hood, but still wants to be period as well. Thanks
        >
        > Madeleine



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Madeleine Delacroix
        Thank you, Kimiko...I have been working with your research and on the Elizabethan costuming page..I gave her the links as well..I think she was confused
        Message 3 of 17 , May 10, 2007
          Thank you, Kimiko...I have been working with your research and on the
          Elizabethan costuming page..I gave her the links as well..I think she
          was confused because she had gone to an "Elizabethan" themed wedding
          and all the female wedding party had matching gowns and hoods, or
          something like that..

          Madeleine


          Kimiko Small <kimiko@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Madeleine,
          >
          > I've only found one color image that shows someone wearing a color
          > for their French hood in gold, that happens to match her gown.
          She's
          > also a queen (not sure if she was Queen when her miniature was
          > painted), which may skew things a bit, I don't know.
          > http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1540/
          > CatherineHoward.html
          > Otherwise, yes, it seems the most common colors are white,
          red/pink,
          > or black. The veil is always black, it seems (of course, someday
          we
          > will find the exception to this "rule".
          >
          > And my very first French hood I made in blue velveteen, to match
          my
          > blue gown. I also made it badly, with very flimsy buckram. But
          this
          > was way before I knew better and did my research. Personally,
          making
          > a hood in white or black, or even in red, means you can wear it
          with
          > anything you make, not just the gown you made your matching hood
          for.
          > YMMV.
          >
          > Joane Silvertoppe
          > B. Nordwache, K. Caid
          > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          > mka Kimiko Small, Fresno, CA, USA
          > A Gentlewoman's Warderobe Accounts
          > http://www.kimiko1.com/warderobe.html
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On May 9, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Madeleine Delacroix wrote:
          >
          > > Someone has asked me about French Hood colors (Why I still can't
          > > figure
          > > out)anyway..I have read that you can use red, black or white after
          > > about 1540..or if you want..you can have it match the dress..but
          must
          > > have a black veil..I have looked over so many portraits my eyes
          are
          > > swimming..but haven't seen any hoods other than the first 3
          > > colors..have any of you made a hood and if so..have you always
          made
          > > them those colors, and if yes to that..does it matter that if
          doesn't
          > > match the dress??Her dress is emerald and I know she wants a green
          > > hood, but still wants to be period as well. Thanks
          > >
          > > Madeleine
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Rhiannan Dragonblood
          I made a french hood for the last Al-barran Midwinter because the theme was French/Italian. The person I consulted here (I am bad with names), is our local
          Message 4 of 17 , May 10, 2007
            I made a french hood for the last Al-barran Midwinter
            because the theme was French/Italian.

            The person I consulted here (I am bad with names), is
            our local headwear expert and was the consort to the
            last duke(?)(I've been in the SCA two years and can't
            think what thats called for sure, still learning all
            the terms). What she said, the veil is always black
            and it's acceptable to have the hood itself match the
            dress but otherwise as far as she can tell the colors
            you mentioned are otherwise the norm.

            Speaking of french hoods, I was having some trouble
            with mine still and do have a couple other questions,
            is the veil sewn closed normall or left open? And what
            is the best way to attatch the hood itself to the
            headband? Mine ended up sliding back on my head
            constantly and wouldn't stay in the right place which
            ended up me putting it back in my car and giving up
            wearing it that evening. I do want to wear the outfit
            I made again but would like to be able to keep the
            french hood on since it looked better with it.

            Rhiannan

            --- Madeleine Delacroix <madeleinedelacroix@...>
            wrote:

            > Thank you, Kimiko...I have been working with your
            > research and on the
            > Elizabethan costuming page..I gave her the links as
            > well..I think she
            > was confused because she had gone to an
            > "Elizabethan" themed wedding
            > and all the female wedding party had matching gowns
            > and hoods, or
            > something like that..
            >
            > Madeleine
            >
            >
            > Kimiko Small <kimiko@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Madeleine,
            > >
            > > I've only found one color image that shows someone
            > wearing a color
            > > for their French hood in gold, that happens to
            > match her gown.
            > She's
            > > also a queen (not sure if she was Queen when her
            > miniature was
            > > painted), which may skew things a bit, I don't
            > know.
            > >
            >
            http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1540/
            >
            > > CatherineHoward.html
            > > Otherwise, yes, it seems the most common colors
            > are white,
            > red/pink,
            > > or black. The veil is always black, it seems (of
            > course, someday
            > we
            > > will find the exception to this "rule".
            > >
            > > And my very first French hood I made in blue
            > velveteen, to match
            > my
            > > blue gown. I also made it badly, with very flimsy
            > buckram. But
            > this
            > > was way before I knew better and did my research.
            > Personally,
            > making
            > > a hood in white or black, or even in red, means
            > you can wear it
            > with
            > > anything you make, not just the gown you made your
            > matching hood
            > for.
            > > YMMV.
            > >
            > > Joane Silvertoppe
            > > B. Nordwache, K. Caid
            > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            > > mka Kimiko Small, Fresno, CA, USA
            > > A Gentlewoman's Warderobe Accounts
            > > http://www.kimiko1.com/warderobe.html
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On May 9, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Madeleine Delacroix
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > > Someone has asked me about French Hood colors
            > (Why I still can't
            > > > figure
            > > > out)anyway..I have read that you can use red,
            > black or white after
            > > > about 1540..or if you want..you can have it
            > match the dress..but
            > must
            > > > have a black veil..I have looked over so many
            > portraits my eyes
            > are
            > > > swimming..but haven't seen any hoods other than
            > the first 3
            > > > colors..have any of you made a hood and if
            > so..have you always
            > made
            > > > them those colors, and if yes to that..does it
            > matter that if
            > doesn't
            > > > match the dress??Her dress is emerald and I know
            > she wants a green
            > > > hood, but still wants to be period as well.
            > Thanks
            > > >
            > > > Madeleine
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
            > removed]
            > >
            >
            >
            >


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          • Caitriona Campbell
            ... wrote: ... I make no claim as being an expert in French hoods, but have made several for myself. I ve mostly used black or red since that s
            Message 5 of 17 , May 10, 2007
              --- Rhiannan Dragonblood <drakenwolf27@...>
              wrote:

              <snip>
              >
              > Speaking of french hoods, I was having some trouble
              > with mine still and do have a couple other
              > questions,
              > is the veil sewn closed normall or left open? And
              > what
              > is the best way to attatch the hood itself to the
              > headband? Mine ended up sliding back on my head
              > constantly and wouldn't stay in the right place
              > which
              > ended up me putting it back in my car and giving up
              > wearing it that evening. I do want to wear the
              > outfit
              > I made again but would like to be able to keep the
              > french hood on since it looked better with it.

              <snip>

              I make no claim as being an expert in French hoods,
              but have made several for myself. I've mostly used
              black or red since that's what I've seen for the most
              part. The 2 piece pattern I've used works for me in
              that it gives me a flat to the head base piece and the
              second more upright shape is attached toward the back
              of the head with the ends being brought forward to the
              bottom front edge of the flat piece. I'm sure this
              makes little sence without actually seeing it, but it
              gives what looks to me like the proper slant and keeps
              it from looking like a T with the billiment (jeweled -
              gold - pearled- etc) sticking strait up from your
              head. The most frequent hood style seems to be the
              "bag" that covers and holds your hair. I've found the
              following site to be very helpful:
              http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/fhoodmake.html
              Depending on how that shows in your screen, you may
              have to cut and paste to get there, but it's worth it.
              I also add a small comb to the center of the flat
              head piece that helps hold in on a great deal. A
              small elastic band in your hair or a simple pincurl
              will anchor the comb and your hat will stay exactly
              where you put it. You may use a tie under the chin,
              as the did in period portraits at times, or a band
              across the back of your neck, or even the "bag" itself
              to hold the lower part in place. Hopefully, this
              ramble will help you a bit with your creations.

              Cairtiona Campbell
              Hat lover



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            • Kimiko Small
              Hello Rhiannan, The veil is tubular shaped, and is closed shut on the underside. I also have a bit of a time with my French hood, although my newest one sits
              Message 6 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                Hello Rhiannan,

                The veil is tubular shaped, and is closed shut on the underside.

                I also have a bit of a time with my French hood, although my newest
                one sits pretty well on my head, and only wants to fly away with the
                breeze. But it does like to inch backwards a bit. I have a chin strap
                on mine, but it doesn't do much other than keep the hood from flying
                away with the breeze. The tension with the wire and the buckram keeps
                it pretty well on. You can see my dress diary on it, along with my
                mug shots, here:
                http://www.kimiko1.com/dressdiaries/1545FrenchHood/index.html

                I did think of putting a comb into the front, but I recently found
                out about wig clips, which can be sewn as a pair into the front, then
                the clips hold onto the hair when shut. I haven't sewn the wig clips
                on yet (I will someday soonish), but it looks very promising, and
                better than a comb I think, as comb teeth break too frequently for
                me, which then loose grip on my hair. Here's a link to what the wig
                clips look like.
                http://www.mhrw.com/c_snapsclips.html
                Look around for better pricing, as I payed much less than that for 4
                clips.

                Another help, is to follow the Elizabethan Costume link to the French
                hood given by Cairtiona, as Drea describes a method for crossing your
                hair up high on the top of your head, which then supports the hood. I
                have thick hair, so I do that to my side hair, and just let my back
                hair hang in a ponytail, or sometimes I put it up if it is a hot day.

                hth,


                Joane Silvertoppe
                B. Nordwache, K. Caid
                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                mka Kimiko Small, Fresno, CA, USA
                A Gentlewoman's Warderobe Accounts
                http://www.kimiko1.com/warderobe.html




                On May 10, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Rhiannan Dragonblood wrote:

                > Speaking of french hoods, I was having some trouble
                > with mine still and do have a couple other questions,
                > is the veil sewn closed normall or left open? And what
                > is the best way to attatch the hood itself to the
                > headband? Mine ended up sliding back on my head
                > constantly and wouldn't stay in the right place which
                > ended up me putting it back in my car and giving up
                > wearing it that evening. I do want to wear the outfit
                > I made again but would like to be able to keep the
                > french hood on since it looked better with it.
                >
                > Rhiannan



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kimiko Small
                You are welcome. I am sure the wedding party looked lovely in their matching caps and gowns (why does that remind me of graduation?) :-) Kimiko/Joane
                Message 7 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                  You are welcome. I am sure the wedding party looked lovely in their
                  matching caps and gowns (why does that remind me of graduation?) :-)

                  Kimiko/Joane


                  On May 10, 2007, at 7:32 AM, Madeleine Delacroix wrote:

                  > Thank you, Kimiko...I have been working with your research and on the
                  > Elizabethan costuming page..I gave her the links as well..I think she
                  > was confused because she had gone to an "Elizabethan" themed wedding
                  > and all the female wedding party had matching gowns and hoods, or
                  > something like that..
                  >
                  > Madeleine
                  >
                  >
                  > Kimiko Small <kimiko@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >> Hello Madeleine,
                  >>
                  >> I've only found one color image that shows someone wearing a color
                  >> for their French hood in gold, that happens to match her gown.
                  > She's
                  >> also a queen (not sure if she was Queen when her miniature was
                  >> painted), which may skew things a bit, I don't know.
                  >> http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/FrenchHood/1540/
                  >> CatherineHoward.html
                  >> Otherwise, yes, it seems the most common colors are white,
                  > red/pink,
                  >> or black. The veil is always black, it seems (of course, someday
                  > we
                  >> will find the exception to this "rule".
                  >>
                  >> And my very first French hood I made in blue velveteen, to match
                  > my
                  >> blue gown. I also made it badly, with very flimsy buckram. But
                  > this
                  >> was way before I knew better and did my research. Personally,
                  > making
                  >> a hood in white or black, or even in red, means you can wear it
                  > with
                  >> anything you make, not just the gown you made your matching hood
                  > for.
                  >> YMMV.
                  >>
                  >> Joane Silvertoppe
                  >> B. Nordwache, K. Caid
                  >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  >> mka Kimiko Small, Fresno, CA, USA
                  >> A Gentlewoman's Warderobe Accounts
                  >> http://www.kimiko1.com/warderobe.html
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> On May 9, 2007, at 7:32 PM, Madeleine Delacroix wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> Someone has asked me about French Hood colors (Why I still can't
                  >>> figure
                  >>> out)anyway..I have read that you can use red, black or white after
                  >>> about 1540..or if you want..you can have it match the dress..but
                  > must
                  >>> have a black veil..I have looked over so many portraits my eyes
                  > are
                  >>> swimming..but haven't seen any hoods other than the first 3
                  >>> colors..have any of you made a hood and if so..have you always
                  > made
                  >>> them those colors, and if yes to that..does it matter that if
                  > doesn't
                  >>> match the dress??Her dress is emerald and I know she wants a green
                  >>> hood, but still wants to be period as well. Thanks
                  >>>
                  >>> Madeleine
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Community email addresses:
                  > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                  > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                  > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                  >
                  > Shortcut URL to this page:
                  > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Rhiannan Dragonblood
                  The link is one of them that I was using when I created it. I think I need to take it apart and re-attatch the front piece so it lays a bit flater, right now
                  Message 8 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                    The link is one of them that I was using when I
                    created it. I think I need to take it apart and
                    re-attatch the front piece so it lays a bit flater,
                    right now it seems to stand up too much, and the wig
                    clips sound like a possible idea that would work to
                    keep it in place. I have thick but fine/strait hair
                    and combs slide.

                    Rhiannan

                    --- Kimiko Small <kimiko@...> wrote:

                    > Hello Rhiannan,
                    >
                    > The veil is tubular shaped, and is closed shut on
                    > the underside.
                    >
                    > I also have a bit of a time with my French hood,
                    > although my newest
                    > one sits pretty well on my head, and only wants to
                    > fly away with the
                    > breeze. But it does like to inch backwards a bit. I
                    > have a chin strap
                    > on mine, but it doesn't do much other than keep the
                    > hood from flying
                    > away with the breeze. The tension with the wire and
                    > the buckram keeps
                    > it pretty well on. You can see my dress diary on it,
                    > along with my
                    > mug shots, here:
                    >
                    http://www.kimiko1.com/dressdiaries/1545FrenchHood/index.html
                    >
                    > I did think of putting a comb into the front, but I
                    > recently found
                    > out about wig clips, which can be sewn as a pair
                    > into the front, then
                    > the clips hold onto the hair when shut. I haven't
                    > sewn the wig clips
                    > on yet (I will someday soonish), but it looks very
                    > promising, and
                    > better than a comb I think, as comb teeth break too
                    > frequently for
                    > me, which then loose grip on my hair. Here's a link
                    > to what the wig
                    > clips look like.
                    > http://www.mhrw.com/c_snapsclips.html
                    > Look around for better pricing, as I payed much less
                    > than that for 4
                    > clips.
                    >
                    > Another help, is to follow the Elizabethan Costume
                    > link to the French
                    > hood given by Cairtiona, as Drea describes a method
                    > for crossing your
                    > hair up high on the top of your head, which then
                    > supports the hood. I
                    > have thick hair, so I do that to my side hair, and
                    > just let my back
                    > hair hang in a ponytail, or sometimes I put it up if
                    > it is a hot day.
                    >
                    > hth,
                    >
                    >
                    > Joane Silvertoppe
                    > B. Nordwache, K. Caid
                    > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    > mka Kimiko Small, Fresno, CA, USA
                    > A Gentlewoman's Warderobe Accounts
                    > http://www.kimiko1.com/warderobe.html
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On May 10, 2007, at 9:24 AM, Rhiannan Dragonblood
                    > wrote:
                    >
                    > > Speaking of french hoods, I was having some
                    > trouble
                    > > with mine still and do have a couple other
                    > questions,
                    > > is the veil sewn closed normall or left open? And
                    > what
                    > > is the best way to attatch the hood itself to the
                    > > headband? Mine ended up sliding back on my head
                    > > constantly and wouldn't stay in the right place
                    > which
                    > > ended up me putting it back in my car and giving
                    > up
                    > > wearing it that evening. I do want to wear the
                    > outfit
                    > > I made again but would like to be able to keep the
                    > > french hood on since it looked better with it.
                    > >
                    > > Rhiannan
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    >
                    >




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                  • unclrashid
                    ... then ... I used to know someobdy who wore a wiglet on a regular basis, and I ve seen the damage wig clips can do. You might not wear them often enough to
                    Message 9 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                      --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Kimiko Small <kimiko@...> wrote:
                      >

                      > I did think of putting a comb into the front, but I recently found
                      > out about wig clips, which can be sewn as a pair into the front,
                      then
                      > the clips hold onto the hair when shut. I haven't sewn the wig clips
                      > on yet (I will someday soonish), but it looks very promising, and
                      > better than a comb I think, as comb teeth break too frequently for
                      > me, which then loose grip on my hair. Here's a link to what the wig
                      > clips look like.
                      > http://www.mhrw.com/c_snapsclips.html

                      I used to know someobdy who wore a wiglet on a regular basis, and I've
                      seen the damage wig clips can do. You might not wear them often enough
                      to damage your hair on a French Hood, but then again, the extra weight
                      could make it worse.

                      Rashid
                    • Kimiko Small
                      Thanks Rashid for that warning. I ve never used wig clips before, so I will keep that in mind when I try them on my French hood. Joane ... [Non-text portions
                      Message 10 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                        Thanks Rashid for that warning. I've never used wig clips before, so
                        I will keep that in mind when I try them on my French hood.

                        Joane


                        On May 10, 2007, at 1:57 PM, unclrashid wrote:

                        > I used to know someobdy who wore a wiglet on a regular basis, and I've
                        > seen the damage wig clips can do. You might not wear them often
                        > enough
                        > to damage your hair on a French Hood, but then again, the extra weight
                        > could make it worse.
                        >
                        > Rashid



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Madeleine Delacroix
                        http://tinyurl.com/2ejrr3 This is the one that she and I are trying to make(credit to Kimiko, it s from her page)the pattern I made doesn t appear to go up
                        Message 11 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                          http://tinyurl.com/2ejrr3

                          This is the one that she and I are trying to make(credit to Kimiko,
                          it's from her page)the pattern I made doesn't appear to go up very
                          much, seems to be more of a flatish band that sticks out past the
                          crown of the head..I don't know what type of trim or decoration
                          she's using but I am just trimming mine with black silk cord trim,
                          with a twist of stitched on pearls, simple but fits my persona.Now,
                          would you think that veil is still circular?? It's hard to tell by
                          the picture..after all I have read, I am trying to figure out why
                          all the renn faires nobles always have the veils flowing, like a
                          bride..(the people I have seen)..







                          Caitriona Campbell <caitrionadragon@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > I make no claim as being an expert in French hoods,
                          > but have made several for myself. I've mostly used
                          > black or red since that's what I've seen for the most
                          > part. The 2 piece pattern I've used works for me in
                          > that it gives me a flat to the head base piece and the
                          > second more upright shape is attached toward the back
                          > of the head with the ends being brought forward to the
                          > bottom front edge of the flat piece. I'm sure this
                          > makes little sence without actually seeing it, but it
                          > gives what looks to me like the proper slant and keeps
                          > it from looking like a T with the billiment (jeweled -
                          > gold - pearled- etc) sticking strait up from your
                          > head. The most frequent hood style seems to be the
                          > "bag" that covers and holds your hair. I've found the
                          > following site to be very helpful:
                          > http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/fhoodmake.html
                          > Depending on how that shows in your screen, you may
                          > have to cut and paste to get there, but it's worth it.
                          > I also add a small comb to the center of the flat
                          > head piece that helps hold in on a great deal. A
                          > small elastic band in your hair or a simple pincurl
                          > will anchor the comb and your hat will stay exactly
                          > where you put it. You may use a tie under the chin,
                          > as the did in period portraits at times, or a band
                          > across the back of your neck, or even the "bag" itself
                          > to hold the lower part in place. Hopefully, this
                          > ramble will help you a bit with your creations.
                          >
                          > Cairtiona Campbell
                          > Hat lover
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • Kimiko Small
                          Hi Madeleine, As someone who does ren-faires, and have for over 20 years now (gads, I feel old), let me state right now that we in ren-faires do things for
                          Message 12 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                            Hi Madeleine,

                            As someone who does ren-faires, and have for over 20 years now (gads,
                            I feel old), let me state right now that we in ren-faires do things
                            for costuming because... it is pretty, it is what everyone else in
                            faire wears, it is the in thing to do, it is what the old garb master
                            has decreed, it is what is simple to do, it makes a person look good
                            to the modern eye, etc, ad nauseum (pick one or many of the above).
                            Rarely, if ever, do the people actually research the items they
                            create/buy and wear. If they do research and apply what they
                            research, they are a true gem, and rare in the ren-faire world (I
                            know how many research heavily in my area, and I am one of less than
                            a handful).

                            So, your choice is here. Do you want to create something you find
                            attractive to your eye but modern, or do you want something
                            historically accurate, or do you want a mix of the two? No one is
                            going to put your feet to the fire and tell you anything bad. It
                            really is up to you to decide what works best for your needs.

                            Believe me. I am working on a Henrician outfit for a client who is
                            not a re-enactor, and while most of it is historically accurate, it
                            isn't completely so, and I have my reasons for not making it so, for
                            each and every decision I made. I knew the rules, and I knew which
                            ones I would break. I also know he's going to look good in it, just
                            because the material we chose looks good together, and that's what he
                            wanted. I also know I will make some of the purists scream! But,
                            that's the choices I made. Same for you.

                            Joane/Kimiko
                            who needs to get off this computer and finish the handsewing.


                            On May 10, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Madeleine Delacroix wrote:

                            > http://tinyurl.com/2ejrr3
                            >
                            > This is the one that she and I are trying to make(credit to Kimiko,
                            > it's from her page)the pattern I made doesn't appear to go up very
                            > much, seems to be more of a flatish band that sticks out past the
                            > crown of the head..I don't know what type of trim or decoration
                            > she's using but I am just trimming mine with black silk cord trim,
                            > with a twist of stitched on pearls, simple but fits my persona.Now,
                            > would you think that veil is still circular?? It's hard to tell by
                            > the picture..after all I have read, I am trying to figure out why
                            > all the renn faires nobles always have the veils flowing, like a
                            > bride..(the people I have seen)..



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Kimiko Small
                            Sorry... for all my comments, I forgot to answer your question. No, I don t think it is circular at all. Joane ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            Message 13 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                              Sorry... for all my comments, I forgot to answer your question.

                              No, I don't think it is circular at all.

                              Joane


                              On May 10, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Madeleine Delacroix wrote:

                              > Now,
                              > would you think that veil is still circular??



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • unclrashid
                              ... (gads, ... master ... In our shire, the corresponding answer would be to put your finger on your chin, bat your eyes and drawl cause it s purty ending
                              Message 14 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                                --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Kimiko Small <kimiko@...> wrote:
                                >

                                > As someone who does ren-faires, and have for over 20 years now
                                (gads,
                                > I feel old), let me state right now that we in ren-faires do things
                                > for costuming because... it is pretty, it is what everyone else in
                                > faire wears, it is the in thing to do, it is what the old garb
                                master
                                > has decreed, it is what is simple to do, it makes a person look good
                                > to the modern eye, etc, ad nauseum (pick one or many of the above).

                                In our shire, the corresponding answer would be to put your finger on
                                your chin, bat your eyes and drawl " 'cause it's purty" ending with an
                                upward lilt to your voice. Try to keep a straight face and don't grin
                                wickedly until you are alone! or at least in the company of other
                                authenticity mavens.

                                Rashid
                              • Elizabeth Cember
                                In our shire, the corresponding answer would be to put your finger on your chin, bat your eyes and drawl cause it s purty ending with an upward lilt to
                                Message 15 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                                  "In our shire, the corresponding answer would be to put your finger on

                                  your chin, bat your eyes and drawl " 'cause it's purty" ending with an

                                  upward lilt to your voice. Try to keep a straight face and don't grin

                                  wickedly until you are alone! or at least in the company of other

                                  authenticity mavens.



                                  Rashid"

                                  I think a small smile would be appropriate. Perhaps the sort of smile that might accompany a laugh rendered as "tee hee!"

                                  Elspeth


                                  "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                                  I woke and saw that life was duty,
                                  I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                                  -- Rabinranath Tagore



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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Kimiko Small
                                  Bwahahahaha ... ROFLOL!! Thanks, I needed that. :-D Joane ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Message 16 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                                    Bwahahahaha ... ROFLOL!!

                                    Thanks, I needed that. :-D

                                    Joane


                                    On May 10, 2007, at 6:42 PM, unclrashid wrote:

                                    > In our shire, the corresponding answer would be to put your finger on
                                    > your chin, bat your eyes and drawl " 'cause it's purty" ending with an
                                    > upward lilt to your voice. Try to keep a straight face and don't grin
                                    > wickedly until you are alone! or at least in the company of other
                                    > authenticity mavens.
                                    >
                                    > Rashid



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Madeleine Delacroix
                                    Luckily in our shire (soon to be barony) people are more concerned with you being present at events, then how you look, the idea is that if you made an effort,
                                    Message 17 of 17 , May 10, 2007
                                      Luckily in our shire (soon to be barony) people are more concerned
                                      with you being present at events, then how you look, the idea is that
                                      if you made an effort, it's all good..

                                      Elizabeth Cember <sapphire_chan@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > "In our shire, the corresponding answer would be to put your finger
                                      on
                                      >
                                      > your chin, bat your eyes and drawl " 'cause it's purty" ending with
                                      an
                                      >
                                      > upward lilt to your voice. Try to keep a straight face and don't
                                      grin
                                      >
                                      > wickedly until you are alone! or at least in the company of other
                                      >
                                      > authenticity mavens.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Rashid"
                                      >
                                      > I think a small smile would be appropriate. Perhaps the sort of
                                      smile that might accompany a laugh rendered as "tee hee!"
                                      >
                                      > Elspeth
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > "I slept and dreamt that life was joy,
                                      > I woke and saw that life was duty,
                                      > I acted and behold, duty was joy"
                                      > -- Rabinranath Tagore
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > __________________________________________________
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                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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