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spanish ruffle hat-documentation help?

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  • marianadesalamanca
    I am working on two spanish ruffle hats and want to make them as accurate as possible. I am making one coffe filter and one tall wedding cake hat. I will
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
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      I am working on two spanish ruffle hats and want to make them as
      accurate as possible. I am making one "coffe filter" and one "tall
      wedding cake" hat. I will post the images I currently have
      under "Mariana" in the photos section.

      I heard from someone in our canton that at a recent Pennsic somenone
      put a hat like I want to make in the A&S display. She had
      apparently contacted a museum that has an extant hat and recieved
      information from them. I am trying to reach this person, or anyone
      else who has information on these hats, or to get the information on
      what museum to contact.

      My main questions:

      What was the base? I have heard it was vellum.

      How was the top done? Was it closed? If so with what? It seems the
      short "coffe filter" style was often open on top, but what about the
      tall hat?

      What fabrics were used? Cotton, Linen, Silk?

      How were the ruffles arranged? The coffe filter seems to be
      pleated, for the wedding cake I was thinking of creating one LONG
      strip of narrow pleats and wrapping it around and around going up.

      I will of course give credit to anyone who provides information, so
      please include your citation information if you respond.

      Thanks!

      Mariana de Salmanca
      fiberferret@...
    • danabren@verizon.net
      This sounds remarkably like the hat made by Dona Isabel de Gaucin, who I am cc ing on this missive. Either way, we still want pictures! Danabren East ... ^v^
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 1, 2005
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        This sounds remarkably like the hat made by Dona Isabel de Gaucin, who I am cc'ing on this missive. Either way, we still want pictures!

        Danabren
        East

        >I am working on two spanish ruffle hats and want to make them as
        >accurate as possible. I am making one "coffe filter" and one "tall
        >wedding cake" hat. I will post the images I currently have
        >under "Mariana" in the photos section.
        >
        >I heard from someone in our canton that at a recent Pennsic somenone
        >put a hat like I want to make in the A&S display. She had
        >apparently contacted a museum that has an extant hat and recieved
        >information from them. I am trying to reach this person, or anyone
        >else who has information on these hats, or to get the information on
        >what museum to contact.
        >
        >My main questions:
        >
        >What was the base? I have heard it was vellum.
        >
        >How was the top done? Was it closed? If so with what? It seems the
        >short "coffe filter" style was often open on top, but what about the
        >tall hat?
        >
        >What fabrics were used? Cotton, Linen, Silk?
        >
        >How were the ruffles arranged? The coffe filter seems to be
        >pleated, for the wedding cake I was thinking of creating one LONG
        >strip of narrow pleats and wrapping it around and around going up.
        >
        >I will of course give credit to anyone who provides information, so
        >please include your citation information if you respond.
        >
        >Thanks!
        >
        >Mariana de Salmanca
        >fiberferret@...
        >

        ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
        "Ok, mom, I just need your cell phone and your credit card"
        Erin Conroy, age 8
      • Maitresse Yvianne
        ... A bit more on vellum. :-) Please don t confuse the paper named vellum that you can get at craft and stationary stores for true animal skin
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 2, 2005
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          > What was the base? I have heard it was vellum.

          A bit more on vellum. :-)

          Please don't confuse the paper named "vellum" that you can get at craft and
          stationary stores for true animal skin vellum/parchment. Even the "opaline
          vellum" sold at Pennsic is a type of paper. Real vellum is expensive (unless
          you make it yourself) On the open market it runs about $35 a square foot.
          OTOH ;-) you may be able to get sheets of rawhide (low quality vellum
          without the stretching or surface prep) for $30 a hide (2-3 hats worth,
          depending on the hat).

          Vellum can be formed into simple shapes dry or you can soak vellum/rawhide
          in warm water and it will become pliable in all directions (like a sheet of
          latex rubber). As it dries again it will shrink. Using push pins placed as
          close together as you can get them will allow the vellum to dry in place
          over a form ... if the vellum is not stretched too much to start with and if
          you have pinned it to a sturdy enough surface. I use a 3/4 inch thick oak
          board, and even then the pins get pulled out by the shrinking vellum
          sometimes.

          For those who don't want to use the animal skins themselves ... you can try
          using linen soaked in hide glue. (Technically it's the hide glue in vellum
          that allows it to be formed wet, but dry stiff and fairly solid) Hide glue
          on it's own may take weeks of soaking in plain water to reconstitute
          (depends a lot on the source of the glue itself, process used and any
          additives or preservatives).

          Depending on the type and amount of hide glue in your base, a little bit of
          water (drizzle, fog, dampness) may cause it to get a bit soft and wrinkly
          (cockled) but it should take a lot of water to allow the glue to become
          completely unstable ... adding in a bit of heat speeds up the process. When
          vellum or hide glue get wet and warm for extended periods of time (like your
          head inside a hat or a sweaty forehead) they will return to a more flexible
          (and sticky) state again. Take this into consideration when planning your
          designs.

          Hope this helps

          Yvianne de Castel d'Avignon
          AEthelmearc
        • unclrashid
          I think youmight be referring to Isabel Ximenez (de Ximenez?), perhaps the same person Mistress Danabren was referring to. I think she has some articles or
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 6, 2005
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            I think youmight be referring to Isabel Ximenez (de Ximenez?), perhaps
            the same person Mistress Danabren was referring to. I think she has
            some articles or pics up on her shire's website, you may be able to
            find it by googling her.

            Rashid


            --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "marianadesalamanca"
            <fiberferret@g...> wrote:
            > I am working on two spanish ruffle hats and want to make them as
            > accurate as possible. I am making one "coffe filter" and one "tall
            > wedding cake" hat. I will post the images I currently have
            > under "Mariana" in the photos section.
            >
            > I heard from someone in our canton that at a recent Pennsic somenone
            > put a hat like I want to make in the A&S display. She had
            > apparently contacted a museum that has an extant hat and recieved
            > information from them. I am trying to reach this person, or anyone
            > else who has information on these hats, or to get the information on
            > what museum to contact.
            >
            > My main questions:
            >
            > What was the base? I have heard it was vellum.
            >
            > How was the top done? Was it closed? If so with what? It seems the
            > short "coffe filter" style was often open on top, but what about the
            > tall hat?
            >
            > What fabrics were used? Cotton, Linen, Silk?
            >
            > How were the ruffles arranged? The coffe filter seems to be
            > pleated, for the wedding cake I was thinking of creating one LONG
            > strip of narrow pleats and wrapping it around and around going up.
            >
            > I will of course give credit to anyone who provides information, so
            > please include your citation information if you respond.
            >
            > Thanks!
            >
            > Mariana de Salmanca
            > fiberferret@g...
          • danabren@verizon.net
            ... It is, in fact, the same lady. She has requested that I give the shire website as it contains the entirety of her research on the project.
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 7, 2005
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              >I think youmight be referring to Isabel Ximenez (de Ximenez?), perhaps
              >the same person Mistress Danabren was referring to. I think she has
              >some articles or pics up on her shire's website, you may be able to
              >find it by googling her.
              >
              >Rashid

              It is, in fact, the same lady. She has requested that I give the shire website as it contains the entirety of her research on the project.

              http://silverrylle.eastkingdom.org/research/index.html

              I got to watch this hat in process, it was incredible!

              Danabren

              ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
              "Ok, mom, I just need your cell phone and your credit card"
              Erin Conroy, age 8
            • Hillery Brewer
              Thanks to all for the help! I ve tracked down Isabel, and her hat and have some great research leads to follow. Hopefully I ll be able to post a pic in a few
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 8, 2005
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                Thanks to all for the help! I've tracked down Isabel, and her hat and have
                some great research leads to follow. Hopefully I'll be able to post a pic in
                a few months.
                Thanks again!
                Mariana


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Grace Morris
                Great! See you tomorrow. Jessamyn
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 8, 2005
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                  Great! See you tomorrow.
                  Jessamyn
                  On Thursday, September 8, 2005, at 09:00 AM, Hillery Brewer wrote:

                  > Thanks to all for the help! I've tracked down Isabel, and her hat and
                  > have
                  > some great research leads to follow. Hopefully I'll be able to post a
                  > pic in
                  > a few months.
                  > Thanks again!
                  > Mariana
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Community email addresses:
                  > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                  > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                  > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                  >
                  > Shortcut URL to this page:
                  > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Grace Morris
                  Oops! Should be offline. Sorry. Jessamyn
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 8, 2005
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                    Oops! Should be offline. Sorry.
                    Jessamyn
                    On Thursday, September 8, 2005, at 12:08 PM, Grace Morris wrote:

                    > Great! See you tomorrow.
                    > Jessamyn
                    > On Thursday, September 8, 2005, at 09:00 AM, Hillery Brewer wrote:
                    >
                    >> Thanks to all for the help! I've tracked down Isabel, and her hat and
                    >> have
                    >> some great research leads to follow. Hopefully I'll be able to post a
                    >> pic in
                    >> a few months.
                    >> Thanks again!
                    >> Mariana
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Community email addresses:
                    >> Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                    >> Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                    >> Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    >> List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                    >>
                    >> Shortcut URL to this page:
                    >> http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Community email addresses:
                    > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                    > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                    > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                    >
                    > Shortcut URL to this page:
                    > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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