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An Elizabethan hat

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  • leycestershyre
    Greetings to the list, I posted a couple of photos of some of my latest work. I have just finished a commission for a velvet pleated crown hat, and made
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 11, 2005
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      Greetings to the list,

      I posted a couple of photos of some of my latest work. I have just
      finished a commission for a velvet pleated crown hat, and made myself a
      new gold and pearl caul, and thought I would share. The photos are the
      last three in my folder..."Eleanor".

      Cheers,
      HL Eleanor
    • danabren@verizon.net
      ... These are really beautiful - thank you for putting the pictures up. Danabren ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ Ok, mom, I just
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 12, 2005
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        >I posted a couple of photos of some of my latest work. I have just
        >finished a commission for a velvet pleated crown hat, and made myself a
        >new gold and pearl caul, and thought I would share. The photos are the
        >last three in my folder..."Eleanor".
        >
        >Cheers,
        >HL Eleanor

        These are really beautiful - thank you for putting the pictures up.
        Danabren

        ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
        "Ok, mom, I just need your cell phone and your credit card"
        Erin Conroy, age 8
      • hleleanor@comcast.net
        Thank you very much! Eleanor
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 12, 2005
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          Thank you very much!

          Eleanor


          >
          > >I posted a couple of photos of some of my latest work. I have just
          > >finished a commission for a velvet pleated crown hat, and made myself a
          > >new gold and pearl caul, and thought I would share. The photos are the
          > >last three in my folder..."Eleanor".
          > >
          > >Cheers,
          > >HL Eleanor
          >
          > These are really beautiful - thank you for putting the pictures up.
          > Danabren
          >
          > ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
          > "Ok, mom, I just need your cell phone and your credit card"
          > Erin Conroy, age 8
          >
          >
          >
          > Community email addresses:
          > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
          > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
          > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
          > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
          >
          > Shortcut URL to this page:
          > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Stephanie Reiley
          Okay, HL Eleanor inspired me. I ve added some photos of recent felt and buckram based hats I ve done in the folder titled Selene in the Pictures section of
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 17, 2005
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            Okay, HL Eleanor inspired me. I've added some photos of recent felt and
            buckram based hats I've done in the folder titled "Selene" in the Pictures
            section of the list.

            Dame Selene, Atenveldt
          • Stephanie Reiley
            ... I /love/ the feathers on your hats. Do you have any tips on how you come up with such pretty arrangements? Do you dye your own or do you have a source
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 17, 2005
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              >I posted a couple of photos of some of my latest work. I have just
              >finished a commission for a velvet pleated crown hat, and made myself a
              >new gold and pearl caul, and thought I would share. The photos are the
              >last three in my folder..."Eleanor".

              I /love/ the feathers on your hats. Do you have any tips on how you come up
              with such pretty arrangements? Do you dye your own or do you have a source
              where you like to get them?

              Selene
            • hleleanor@comcast.net
              Wow! Thank you for sharing your beautiful work!! I love the way you have done the pleated silk linings. I must give that a try! Cheers, HL Eleanor
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 17, 2005
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                Wow! Thank you for sharing your beautiful work!! I love the way you have done the pleated silk linings. I must give that a try!

                Cheers,
                HL Eleanor


                > Okay, HL Eleanor inspired me. I've added some photos of recent felt and
                > buckram based hats I've done in the folder titled "Selene" in the Pictures
                > section of the list.
                >
                > Dame Selene, Atenveldt
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Community email addresses:
                > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                >
                > Shortcut URL to this page:
                > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • hleleanor@comcast.net
                Sorry. Ran out of time this morning before work, to answer your questions. Do you have any tips on how you come up ... Well...I sort of approach it a bit
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 17, 2005
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                  Sorry. Ran out of time this morning before work, to answer your questions.

                  "Do you have any tips on how you come up
                  > with such pretty arrangements?"

                  Well...I sort of approach it a bit like arranging flowers. I try to get a balanced arrangement...generally starting with the direction I want the feathers to curl...over the top, side-facing, or what-have-you. I take whatever cues I can get from period portraits, then try to come close to the overall arrangement and the shape of the feathers, and the colors used. Sometimes it's obvious that they have used a prime full-length plume...others are shorts, and such.

                  And, I try to layer them up...the tallest at the back, then coming forward with shorter and maybe curlier feathers, add a few colored ones if that seems called for, which gives it more depth. Some are right-hand curling and others left-handed. If I want a broad arrangement I use one of each in opposite directions in a kind of "Y" and fill in the center, and the bottom section.

                  When I've got something that looks good to me, I kind of gather them up in a little bouquet between my thumb and forefinger and check the design against the hat, on a wig stand, in front of a mirror. Sometimes I prefer them on the side opposite the one shown in the portrait... It gives me an idea of their relationship to the size of the hat, and the necessary length, etc.

                  If the portrait shows curly feathers, I try to do that, because the curling adds a bit of randomness and makes the plumes appear a bit fuller. It's not difficult to do, but it does take a very gentle touch, or it's easy to ruin the feather. Then I trim the lengths even...after curling, of course. And finally, I strip all the fluff and such off the central rib of the feather, leaving a nice smooth shaft. It makes the next step much easier, if you don't have to fight with the fluff flying all over, and sticking itself down in places where you don't want it stuck down.

                  This next step is completely non-period, as far as I know...but it makes working with them so much easier! Once I'm completely happy with the grouping, then I take a small patch of felt, and I hot glue them to it, in the same order and orientation as when I assembled the bouquet of them. I kind of try to keep the ribs aligned, and close together so that the resulting bundle will be as compact as possible. I press the ribs down into the glue with a chopstick or something else I don't mind getting glue on, until they are set in place.

                  When all the feathers are in, then I close the felt up around them, trim away as much excess as possible, leaving just enough to make a tidy little packet of them. I glue this closed, and then I cover it with self-fabric, and handstitch it closed with silk thread, to completely hide the felt. Then I attach it to the hat, with a few stitches, enough to stabilize it. Especially with velvet, the little packet pretty much disappears into the background, and by adding a jewel, or a jewelled brooch on top of it, it really becomes unnoticeable. If the hatband is wide, I try to tuck it under the band.

                  As to colors...no, I haven't been dyeing my own at this time. Although, that is on my list of future experiements! I have done some research and do have some period dye recipes that can be used for feathers. I think that would make a really spiff project. Just haven't had time to do it.

                  I buy my feathers wherever I can, and when I can get the colors and styles I need. We have a local SCA merchant that carries a pretty good selection...then there is Ostriches Ostriches Online, http://www.ostrichesonline.com/. They have wonderful colors and lots different grades and styles...and I also buy at Display and Costume, http://www.displaycostume.com/ because we have one of their stores locally, and they also have lovely stuff. Much better prices than say JoAnn's. They even carry dyed peacock feathers! When I see something unusual or different, I snatch it up for my stash. Sometimes you run into useable secondhand feathers, and they can sometimes be washed and revived. However, I wouldn't wash colored feathers as I have been told that they are not color-fast.

                  I hope this is of some help. Thanks for asking!

                  Eleanor


                  >
                  > >I posted a couple of photos of some of my latest work. I have just
                  > >finished a commission for a velvet pleated crown hat, and made myself a
                  > >new gold and pearl caul, and thought I would share. The photos are the
                  > >last three in my folder..."Eleanor".
                  >
                  > I /love/ the feathers on your hats. Do you dye your own or do you have a source
                  > where you like to get them?
                  >
                  > Selene
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Community email addresses:
                  > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                  > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                  > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                  >
                  > Shortcut URL to this page:
                  > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • hleleanor@comcast.net
                  A minor correction to previous post... I said And finally, I strip all the fluff and such off the central rib of the feather, leaving a nice smooth shaft.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 17, 2005
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                    A minor correction to previous post...

                    I said "And finally, I strip all the fluff and such off the central rib of the feather,
                    leaving a nice smooth shaft.

                    What I meant to say was that I strip off *about an inch of the fluff* at the bottom of the central rib.

                    *red-faced*
                    Eleanor



                    > Sorry. Ran out of time this morning before work, to answer your questions.
                    >
                    > "Do you have any tips on how you come up
                    > > with such pretty arrangements?"
                    >
                    > Well...I sort of approach it a bit like arranging flowers. I try to get a
                    > balanced arrangement...generally starting with the direction I want the feathers
                    > to curl...over the top, side-facing, or what-have-you. I take whatever cues I
                    > can get from period portraits, then try to come close to the overall arrangement
                    > and the shape of the feathers, and the colors used. Sometimes it's obvious
                    > that they have used a prime full-length plume...others are shorts, and such.
                    >
                    > And, I try to layer them up...the tallest at the back, then coming forward with
                    > shorter and maybe curlier feathers, add a few colored ones if that seems called
                    > for, which gives it more depth. Some are right-hand curling and others
                    > left-handed. If I want a broad arrangement I use one of each in opposite
                    > directions in a kind of "Y" and fill in the center, and the bottom section.
                    >
                    > When I've got something that looks good to me, I kind of gather them up in a
                    > little bouquet between my thumb and forefinger and check the design against the
                    > hat, on a wig stand, in front of a mirror. Sometimes I prefer them on the side
                    > opposite the one shown in the portrait... It gives me an idea of their
                    > relationship to the size of the hat, and the necessary length, etc.
                    >
                    > If the portrait shows curly feathers, I try to do that, because the curling adds
                    > a bit of randomness and makes the plumes appear a bit fuller. It's not
                    > difficult to do, but it does take a very gentle touch, or it's easy to ruin the
                    > feather. Then I trim the lengths even...after curling, of course. And
                    > finally, I strip all the fluff and such off the central rib of the feather,
                    > leaving a nice smooth shaft. It makes the next step much easier, if you don't
                    > have to fight with the fluff flying all over, and sticking itself down in places
                    > where you don't want it stuck down.
                    >
                    > This next step is completely non-period, as far as I know...but it makes working
                    > with them so much easier! Once I'm completely happy with the grouping, then I
                    > take a small patch of felt, and I hot glue them to it, in the same order and
                    > orientation as when I assembled the bouquet of them. I kind of try to keep
                    > the ribs aligned, and close together so that the resulting bundle will be as
                    > compact as possible. I press the ribs down into the glue with a chopstick or
                    > something else I don't mind getting glue on, until they are set in place.
                    >
                    > When all the feathers are in, then I close the felt up around them, trim away as
                    > much excess as possible, leaving just enough to make a tidy little packet of
                    > them. I glue this closed, and then I cover it with self-fabric, and handstitch
                    > it closed with silk thread, to completely hide the felt. Then I attach it to
                    > the hat, with a few stitches, enough to stabilize it. Especially with velvet,
                    > the little packet pretty much disappears into the background, and by adding a
                    > jewel, or a jewelled brooch on top of it, it really becomes unnoticeable. If
                    > the hatband is wide, I try to tuck it under the band.
                    >
                    > As to colors...no, I haven't been dyeing my own at this time. Although, that is
                    > on my list of future experiements! I have done some research and do have some
                    > period dye recipes that can be used for feathers. I think that would make a
                    > really spiff project. Just haven't had time to do it.
                    >
                    > I buy my feathers wherever I can, and when I can get the colors and styles I
                    > need. We have a local SCA merchant that carries a pretty good selection...then
                    > there is Ostriches Ostriches Online, http://www.ostrichesonline.com/. They have
                    > wonderful colors and lots different grades and styles...and I also buy at
                    > Display and Costume, http://www.displaycostume.com/ because we have one of their
                    > stores locally, and they also have lovely stuff. Much better prices than say
                    > JoAnn's. They even carry dyed peacock feathers! When I see something unusual
                    > or different, I snatch it up for my stash. Sometimes you run into useable
                    > secondhand feathers, and they can sometimes be washed and revived. However, I
                    > wouldn't wash colored feathers as I have been told that they are not color-fast.
                    >
                    > I hope this is of some help. Thanks for asking!
                    >
                    > Eleanor
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    > > >I posted a couple of photos of some of my latest work. I have just
                    > > >finished a commission for a velvet pleated crown hat, and made myself a
                    > > >new gold and pearl caul, and thought I would share. The photos are the
                    > > >last three in my folder..."Eleanor".
                    > >
                    > > I /love/ the feathers on your hats. Do you dye your own or do you have a
                    > source
                    > > where you like to get them?
                    > >
                    > > Selene
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Community email addresses:
                    > > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                    > > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                    > > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                    > >
                    > > Shortcut URL to this page:
                    > > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Community email addresses:
                    > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                    > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                    > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                    > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                    >
                    > Shortcut URL to this page:
                    > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Stephanie Reiley
                    Wow. Thank you for all the information on how you do your feathers. Makes me think of Queen Elizabeth s capper, Raphael Hammond, who was suppsed to be a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 18, 2005
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                      Wow. Thank you for all the information on how you do your feathers. Makes
                      me think of Queen Elizabeth's capper, Raphael Hammond, who was suppsed to be
                      a wizard with feathers. :)

                      Selene
                    • Cynthia Virtue
                      I enjoyed your feather description, even though I m unlikely to ever use them! -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent The opiate of this massive is a
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 18, 2005
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                        I enjoyed your feather description, even though I'm unlikely to ever use
                        them!

                        --
                        Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                        The opiate of this massive is a book. -- John Theophilous
                      • hleleanor@comcast.net
                        Most welcome! I hope it helps. *blush* That s some compliment! Thank you, Eleanor
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 18, 2005
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                          Most welcome! I hope it helps.

                          *blush* That's some compliment!

                          Thank you,
                          Eleanor


                          > Wow. Thank you for all the information on how you do your feathers. Makes
                          > me think of Queen Elizabeth's capper, Raphael Hammond, who was suppsed to be
                          > a wizard with feathers. :)
                          >
                          > Selene
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Community email addresses:
                          > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                          > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                          > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                          > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                          >
                          > Shortcut URL to this page:
                          > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • hleleanor@comcast.net
                          Thanks! I don t think they were much used in your period heatwear, were they? Eleanor
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 18, 2005
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                            Thanks! I don't think they were much used in your period heatwear, were they?

                            Eleanor


                            > I enjoyed your feather description, even though I'm unlikely to ever use
                            > them!
                            >
                            > --
                            > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                            >
                            > The opiate of this massive is a book. -- John Theophilous
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Community email addresses:
                            > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                            > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                            > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                            > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                            >
                            > Shortcut URL to this page:
                            > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • leycestershyre
                            ... and ... Pictures ... Good Dame, As Elizabethan hats are one of my specialities , I d love to know more about your work. My Mistress is a potter, jeweler,
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 18, 2005
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                              --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Reiley"
                              <miladyblade@h...> wrote:
                              > Okay, HL Eleanor inspired me. I've added some photos of recent felt
                              and
                              > buckram based hats I've done in the folder titled "Selene" in the
                              Pictures
                              > section of the list.
                              >
                              > Dame Selene, Atenveldt

                              Good Dame,

                              As Elizabethan hats are one of my "specialities", I'd love to know more
                              about your work. My Mistress is a potter, jeweler, and a stonecutter,
                              so not much she can do to help me, and we don't really seem to have a
                              lot of your kind of expertise, locally.

                              I would love to know more about how you achieved the shape for the
                              black high-domed-conical-shaped hat in the first two photos. I want to
                              o do one like that, but have never found a hat form quite right, or
                              anything that I could use to fake it.

                              Also, could you please explain about how you do your pleated crown/brim
                              linings? They appear to be all one piece. Any info you could share
                              would be greatly appreciated.

                              Thanks,
                              Eleanor
                            • Stephanie Reiley
                              ... Your Ladyship, Elizabethan hats are one of my passions, too. To clarify, I am a Pelican not a Laurel, and hatters are few and far between in my kingdom as
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                >As Elizabethan hats are one of my "specialities", I'd love to know more
                                >about your work. My Mistress is a potter, jeweler, and a stonecutter,
                                >so not much she can do to help me, and we don't really seem to have a
                                >lot of your kind of expertise, locally.

                                Your Ladyship,
                                Elizabethan hats are one of my passions, too. To clarify, I am a Pelican
                                not a Laurel, and hatters are few and far between in my kingdom as well, so
                                it�s wonderful to meet a kindred spirit. :) I�m happy to share what I�ve
                                been able to figure out and swap notes with you.

                                >I would love to know more about how you achieved the shape for the
                                >black high-domed-conical-shaped hat in the first two photos. I want to
                                >o do one like that, but have never found a hat form quite right, or
                                >anything that I could use to fake it.

                                Well, the brief version of the answer is there is a company now that is
                                making historic-shaped hatblocks out of Kydex. You can find them at
                                http://www.hatshapers.com/ I really like the company and have had great
                                experiences with them.

                                For the black hat, I used their shaping dome and the tall-domed block they
                                sell as �Civil War Zouave Fex�. They have demos on their site of how to
                                felt from scratch using their blocks. That hat was quite a production. I
                                recently entered it in our Kingdom A&S competition. I tried to place a copy
                                of the documentation on the file section of this list, but the file is too
                                big. If you�d like me to send you a copy off-list, I�d be happy to. (The
                                file is close to 3 megs. I didn�t want to max out your email unsolicited.)

                                >Also, could you please explain about how you do your pleated crown/brim
                                >linings?

                                I�ve just started to play with those based on some tips given to me by His
                                Excellency Theron of HatMatters.

                                Essentially, what you do is cut out a piece of heavy cardboard that matches
                                the top piece of your hat (tip). You trim this slightly so it fits firmly
                                inside the top of your hat. This is used as a weight to hold your fabric in
                                place as you arrange the pleats.

                                Spray the inside of your hat with 3-M adhesive. Take a large square of your
                                lining material and tuck it inside your hat, being careful to smooth it at
                                the top of the inside of your hat (tip). Once you�re happy that you have
                                the fabric smooth, tuck your cardboard in place.

                                Next, start arranging your excess fabric in pleats, pinning them to the
                                inside brim of your hat. I usually work around in a circle, having all the
                                pleats going in the same direction. Normally it takes me a couple of passes
                                around the hat to have the pleats spaced evenly enough for my liking. Once
                                I�m happy with the arrangement, I use my hand to smooth the pleats in place
                                along the insides of the hat. I trim away the excess fabric along the brim
                                of the hat and tuck in about � along the edge of the brim, and whipstitch
                                this down.

                                Theron has this process so down that he actually pre-pleats his linings and
                                neatly stitches along the length of each pleat. I�m not nearly that good at
                                it (yet!). Of course, he�s also mundanely a master milliner and it shows.
                                If you haven�t already done so, ask to look at some of the hats in his
                                booth. Every time I get a chance to see one of his hats I learn something
                                new. (He�s usually at Great Western, Potrero, and Estrella.) He and HL
                                Truly of Ansteorra are my hat gods. :)

                                Hope that helps!

                                Selene
                              • Stephanie Reiley
                                Ok, I stripped out enough old pictures to have enough room for a compressed PDF. It s under Files Selene Black Felt Hat. Please let me know if you have
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                  Ok, I stripped out enough old pictures to have enough room for a compressed
                                  PDF. It's under Files\Selene\Black Felt Hat.

                                  Please let me know if you have problems opening it.

                                  Selene
                                • hleleanor@comcast.net
                                  Thank you so much Selene! Much appreciated! I got it...printed it out. It looks like a wonderful piece of research. Can t wait to give your method a try!
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                    Thank you so much Selene! Much appreciated! I got it...printed it out. It looks like a wonderful piece of research. Can't wait to give your method a try!

                                    Eleanor


                                    >
                                    > Ok, I stripped out enough old pictures to have enough room for a compressed
                                    > PDF. It's under Files\Selene\Black Felt Hat.
                                    >
                                    > Please let me know if you have problems opening it.
                                    >
                                    > Selene
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Community email addresses:
                                    > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                                    > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                                    > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                    > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                                    >
                                    > Shortcut URL to this page:
                                    > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • hleleanor@comcast.net
                                    Thank you Mistress Selene. Ahh...okay...Pelican... I do apologize. I should know better than to make assumptions. :) It is indeed good to meet a fellow
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 19, 2005
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                                      Thank you Mistress Selene. Ahh...okay...Pelican... I do apologize. I should know better than to make assumptions. :)
                                      It is indeed good to meet a fellow hatter and kindred spirit. That would be great! I'd love to swap info.

                                      Ohhh many thanks for that link, and for the reference! They have some really great looking forms!! I went through the demo and it's a super explanation of how to use their form. I am familiar with felting, but haven't tried it for hats...yet! But, I will now!! I've got gobs of carded wool from some sheep we sheared a couple of years ago. Some of it will do perfectly!

                                      I know what you mean about trying to upload. I have had the same problem, on the pleated crown silk velvet hat documentation. I finally gave up on uploading it. It's very, very image heavy, and that messes things up, eventhough I have cable internet. I did get the file, and have printed it out! Thanks so much for sharing.

                                      Okay...gotcha on the pleating. When you spray the inside of the hat with glue...are you spraying the whole inside, or just the tip of the crown? I use the spray glue myself to keep the tops of the crown linings in place. And, I know it does give you some fiddle-time to work your fabric...but, is there enough time for you to actually go around the crown 2 or 3 times?

                                      I love the idea of using the cardboard piece to secure the crown tip. That's brilliant. I don't know Theron, but I will surely try to run into him one day! This is a technique that I must try!!

                                      Yes, you have been tremendously helpful, and I really appreciate it. Thanks again, for everything!

                                      Eleanor





                                      >
                                      > >As Elizabethan hats are one of my "specialities", I'd love to know more
                                      > >about your work. My Mistress is a potter, jeweler, and a stonecutter,
                                      > >so not much she can do to help me, and we don't really seem to have a
                                      > >lot of your kind of expertise, locally.
                                      >
                                      > Your Ladyship,
                                      > Elizabethan hats are one of my passions, too. To clarify, I am a Pelican
                                      > not a Laurel, and hatters are few and far between in my kingdom as well, so
                                      > it�s wonderful to meet a kindred spirit. :) I�m happy to share what I�ve
                                      > been able to figure out and swap notes with you.
                                      >
                                      > >I would love to know more about how you achieved the shape for the
                                      > >black high-domed-conical-shaped hat in the first two photos. I want to
                                      > >o do one like that, but have never found a hat form quite right, or
                                      > >anything that I could use to fake it.
                                      >
                                      > Well, the brief version of the answer is there is a company now that is
                                      > making historic-shaped hatblocks out of Kydex. You can find them at
                                      > http://www.hatshapers.com/ I really like the company and have had great
                                      > experiences with them.
                                      >
                                      > For the black hat, I used their shaping dome and the tall-domed block they
                                      > sell as �Civil War Zouave Fex�. They have demos on their site of how to
                                      > felt from scratch using their blocks. That hat was quite a production. I
                                      > recently entered it in our Kingdom A&S competition. I tried to place a copy
                                      > of the documentation on the file section of this list, but the file is too
                                      > big. If you�d like me to send you a copy off-list, I�d be happy to. (The
                                      > file is close to 3 megs. I didn�t want to max out your email unsolicited.)
                                      >
                                      > >Also, could you please explain about how you do your pleated crown/brim
                                      > >linings?
                                      >
                                      > I�ve just started to play with those based on some tips given to me by His
                                      > Excellency Theron of HatMatters.
                                      >
                                      > Essentially, what you do is cut out a piece of heavy cardboard that matches
                                      > the top piece of your hat (tip). You trim this slightly so it fits firmly
                                      > inside the top of your hat. This is used as a weight to hold your fabric in
                                      > place as you arrange the pleats.
                                      >
                                      > Spray the inside of your hat with 3-M adhesive. Take a large square of your
                                      > lining material and tuck it inside your hat, being careful to smooth it at
                                      > the top of the inside of your hat (tip). Once you�re happy that you have
                                      > the fabric smooth, tuck your cardboard in place.
                                      >
                                      > Next, start arranging your excess fabric in pleats, pinning them to the
                                      > inside brim of your hat. I usually work around in a circle, having all the
                                      > pleats going in the same direction. Normally it takes me a couple of passes
                                      > around the hat to have the pleats spaced evenly enough for my liking. Once
                                      > I�m happy with the arrangement, I use my hand to smooth the pleats in place
                                      > along the insides of the hat. I trim away the excess fabric along the brim
                                      > of the hat and tuck in about � along the edge of the brim, and whipstitch
                                      > this down.
                                      >
                                      > Theron has this process so down that he actually pre-pleats his linings and
                                      > neatly stitches along the length of each pleat. I�m not nearly that good at
                                      > it (yet!). Of course, he�s also mundanely a master milliner and it shows.
                                      > If you haven�t already done so, ask to look at some of the hats in his
                                      > booth. Every time I get a chance to see one of his hats I learn something
                                      > new. (He�s usually at Great Western, Potrero, and Estrella.) He and HL
                                      > Truly of Ansteorra are my hat gods. :)
                                      >
                                      > Hope that helps!
                                      >
                                      > Selene
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Community email addresses:
                                      > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                                      > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                                      > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                      > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                                      >
                                      > Shortcut URL to this page:
                                      > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Stephanie Reiley
                                      ... I would love if you could shoot a copy to my hotmail account. I can handle up to about 2 gig. ... I spray the whole inside. Although, you could probably
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 20, 2005
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                                        >I know what you mean about trying to upload. I have had the same problem,
                                        >on the pleated crown silk velvet hat documentation. I finally gave up on
                                        >uploading it. It's very, very image heavy, and that messes things up,
                                        >eventhough I have cable internet. I did get the file, and have printed it
                                        >out! Thanks so much for sharing.

                                        I would love if you could shoot a copy to my hotmail account. I can handle
                                        up to about 2 gig.

                                        >Okay...gotcha on the pleating. When you spray the inside of the hat with
                                        >glue...are you spraying the whole inside, or just the tip of the crown?

                                        I spray the whole inside. Although, you could probably experiment with both
                                        ways. I like a little glue on the sides to help hold the pleats in place as
                                        I'm not stitching them down yet like Theron does.

                                        >I use the spray glue myself to keep the tops of the crown linings in
                                        place. And, I know it does give you some fiddle-time to work your
                                        fabric...but, is there enough time for you to actually go around the crown 2
                                        or 3 times?

                                        I use a fairly forgiving spray that lets me stick and unstick the fabric
                                        several times. It's pretty much like rubber cement.

                                        >I love the idea of using the cardboard piece to secure the crown tip.
                                        >That's brilliant. I don't know Theron, but I will surely try to run into
                                        >him one day! This is a technique that I must try!!

                                        Yep, I agree and that's totally his idea. I need to thank him for that tip
                                        the next time I ses him. If we lived anywhere near him, I would love to
                                        apprentice to him mundanely. Sigh.

                                        Selene
                                      • FyneHats2@aol.com
                                        ... It wouldn t open for me at all. Would it be possible for you to send it to my email address? Thanks so much. Also, if you should see Theron in the near
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 20, 2005
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                                          > Ok, I stripped out enough old pictures to have enough room for a compressed
                                          > PDF. It's under Files\Selene\Black Felt Hat.
                                          >
                                          > Please let me know if you have problems opening it.
                                          >
                                          > Selene
                                          >

                                          It wouldn't open for me at all. Would it be possible for you to send it to
                                          my email address?
                                          Thanks so much.

                                          Also, if you should see Theron in the near future, please give him greetings
                                          from Mistress Felicity. I did several Renaissance Faires with him at Valhalla
                                          and Las Vegas and he did name me his fair apprentice and approved the
                                          workmanship of my hats -- and he is a hard master to please! I do miss seeing his
                                          work and talking with him. He is a veritable fount of millinery knowledge.

                                          Thanks again Selene for picture of your marvellous hats.

                                          Donna Scarfe
                                          fynehats2@...
                                          www.fynehatsbyfelicity.com


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Julie Tamura
                                          Nicely done...both the hat and the docs. For my felted hat, I knit the hood first and then felted it. I made a flat hat out of it by squashing it down and
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Aug 21, 2005
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                                            Nicely done...both the hat and the docs. For my felted hat, I knit the
                                            "hood" first and then felted it. I made a flat hat out of it by squashing
                                            it down and making the felt kind of pleat into shape. I haven't tried
                                            felting batts.

                                            Did you actually start with white wool or was that just for the photos? I
                                            got the darkest natural black fleece I could find, spun a loose single ply
                                            yarn and knit 2 strands.

                                            Theron loved my finished hat and was going to help me with a hat band and
                                            feathers. I've lost touch with him. He hasn't been to my local faires in
                                            over a year. Is he OK? Does anyone have current contact info? I still
                                            have some stuff I borrowed and need to return.
                                            Julie

                                            -----Original Message-----

                                            Ok, I stripped out enough old pictures to have enough room for a compressed
                                            PDF. It's under Files\Selene\Black Felt Hat.

                                            Please let me know if you have problems opening it.

                                            Selene
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