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re: square cap

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  • Hope Greenberg
    Several images of those bonnets here: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/bonnet.html and among the color portraits here: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor -
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 29, 2005
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      Several images of those bonnets here:
      http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/bonnet.html
      and among the color portraits here:
      http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor

      - Hope
    • Kristine Elliott
      Maybe I am crazy, but I see several different (though related) headdresses listed together as women s bonnets at
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 29, 2005
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        Maybe I am crazy, but I see several different (though related) headdresses listed together as women's "bonnets" at http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/bonnet.html .
        The first: "Margaret Giggs (mislabeled Mother Jak) (Parker, pl. 8)" looks like she has a very similar cap to the one in "Lady With a Squirrel & Starling".

        The second: "A Lady: Unknown (Dvorák,, pl. 28)", the fifth: "Portrait of an English Woman (The Bristish Museum: Compass)" and http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/1532woman.jpg seem to me to have metal frames inside a linen coif. (And what is that beret thing on the heads of some of them?) The London Musem has wire frames that definitely looked like headdress bases to me. Sketches can be found at http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame1.gif and
        http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/frame2.gif , which I found from this website
        http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/gableinst.html . (I saw the frames with my own eyes when I was in London 20 years ago.)

        The third Mary, "Duchess of Richmond and Somerset (Parker, pl. 16)", the fourth "A Lady: Unknown (Dvorák,, pl. 29)", the sixth: "A Lady: Unknown (Parker, pl. 48)", the seventh "A Lady: Unknown (Parker, pl. 49)" and the eighth "A Lady: Unknown
        (Parker pl. 63)" form, to my eyes, a third group of coifs with a wired edge with a rounded curve. They are not as homogeneous as the other groups, though.

        Cateline


        On 7/29/05, Hope Greenberg <hope.greenberg@...> wrote:
        > Several images of those bonnets here:
        > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/bonnet.html
        > and among the color portraits here:
        > http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor
        >
        > - Hope
        >
      • ladybrid
        thank you, Hope! I hadn t seen that set of sketches yet! Ok, so here is what I m seeing: all are wearing some sort of coif underneath, either with or without
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 30, 2005
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          thank you, Hope! I hadn't seen that set of sketches yet!

          Ok, so here is what I'm seeing:
          all are wearing some sort of coif underneath, either with or without the
          wired flaps (the little girl in the Holbein family portrait shows a good
          view)
          then some have gables over that as well. I've never understood how the
          gables work.
          then there is either a squared (with or without extensions to frame the
          face) cap, or a rounded beret sorta thing.
          the women do not as often seem to have the flaps and brims that fold back
          off the face as with men's caps.

          so...
          how do the gables go together?
          and are the caps felted and shaped? or sewn patterned shapes?

          and what the heck am I doing on my computer on a lovely Saturday morning?
          brid
        • Hope Greenberg
          ... Not crazy at all! When collecting Tudor images, the headwear seemed to fall into three categories: many gable hoods, many french hoods, and a handful of
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 30, 2005
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            > From: Kristine Elliott <souriete@...>
            > Maybe I am crazy, but I see several different (though related) headdresses listed together as women's "bonnets" at http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor/bonnet.html .
            > The first: "Margaret Giggs (mislabeled Mother Jak) (Parker, pl. 8)" looks like she has a very similar cap to the one in "Lady With a Squirrel & Starling".

            Not crazy at all! When collecting Tudor images, the headwear seemed to
            fall into three categories: many gable hoods, many french hoods, and a
            handful of "others" that seemed to be, as you say, either the square
            cap, furry, variety, or the bonnet-over-linen-cap variety. I say linen
            cap but it actually seems to be a close fitted linen cap or band
            directly on the head, and then a stiffened cap, in some cases with bits
            wrapped around, and in some cases with an underchin tie, over that. And
            I suppose we could break it down further by bonnet--some are like men's
            bonnets and some are like berets. So much variety! But framing the face
            in something stiffened and squarish, like those square necklines, seems
            definitely to be the English fashion, while round seems to be French.
            Although of course, English ladies seem to have no trouble mixing the
            elements.

            - Hope
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