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Re: [SCA-Milliners] Isabeau of Bavaria

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  • Sue Richardson
    Greetings Danabren, Thank you for your welcome and suggestion. I am from the Kingdom of Meridies and do not have an AOA so a metal circlet would be
    Message 1 of 16 , May 25 7:50 AM
      Greetings Danabren,

      Thank you for your welcome and suggestion. I am from the Kingdom of
      Meridies and do not have an AOA so a metal circlet would be inappropriate.
      A frabic covered circlet with cauls sounds perfect.

      Regards,
      Sabine of Loch Leven


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    • Cynthia Virtue
      ... I think that it s an interesting excercise to try it anyway. I have a crespinette that I faked up, and most people report it doesn t set off that ain t
      Message 2 of 16 , May 25 8:34 AM
        Charlotte Zificsak wrote:
        > At least in my area, I don't see a lot of this type of headwear. I can't
        > speak for the rest of the Knowne World, but I guess it would be similar.
        > People who work in metal consider these pieces to be hats or hairpieces.
        > People who work with hats don't have the means to work with metal.

        I think that it's an interesting excercise to try it anyway. I have a
        crespinette that I faked up, and most people report it doesn't set off
        "that ain't metal" alarms if you're about 6 feet away or more. Possibly
        closer, depending on the viewer's level of knowledge. I used that
        knit/mylar embossed "liquid gold" fabric over heavy-duty interfacing.

        Sometime in the next five years, I plan to learn simple metalwork, and
        then maybe I'll give it a try for real!

        --
        Cynthia du Pré Argent (Hartshorn-dale, East)
        "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
        "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
      • Charlotte Zificsak
        I actually used your website as a basis for my class (you gave wonderful directions). I added fake hair in the cylindars, which was the largest change. Oh,
        Message 3 of 16 , May 25 8:45 AM
          I actually used your website as a basis for my class (you gave wonderful
          directions). I added fake hair in the cylindars, which was the largest
          change. Oh, and I'm not a baroness so I couldn't use your really cool
          pearls... :-) Could I send you a copy of my class materials to look over
          and give me suggestions?

          Charlotte


          >I think that it's an interesting excercise to try it anyway. I have a
          >crespinette that I faked up, and most people report it doesn't set off
          >"that ain't metal" alarms if you're about 6 feet away or more. Possibly
          >closer, depending on the viewer's level of knowledge. I used that
          >knit/mylar embossed "liquid gold" fabric over heavy-duty interfacing.
          >
          >Sometime in the next five years, I plan to learn simple metalwork, and
          >then maybe I'll give it a try for real!

          _________________________________________________________________
          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
        • Cynthia Virtue
          I d love to see your stuff! I bet the rest of the list would also! ... -- Official government report says 11th-hour vandalism to the White House by
          Message 4 of 16 , May 25 8:52 AM
            I'd love to see your stuff! I bet the rest of the list would also!

            Charlotte Zificsak wrote:
            >
            > I actually used your website as a basis for my class (you gave wonderful
            > directions). I added fake hair in the cylindars, which was the largest
            > change. Oh, and I'm not a baroness so I couldn't use your really cool
            > pearls... :-) Could I send you a copy of my class materials to look over
            > and give me suggestions?

            --
            Official government report says 11th-hour vandalism to the White House
            by Clintonites was a hoax. Newsweek, May 28
          • ldybryna@aol.com
            I would love a copy of your instructions, would youmind emailing them to me, Thanks Lady bryna olympia Ldybryna@aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have
            Message 5 of 16 , May 25 1:22 PM
              I would love a copy of your instructions, would youmind emailing them to me,

              Thanks
              Lady bryna olympia
              Ldybryna@...


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Charlotte Zificsak
              Here you go! Let me know if you have questinos or suggestions. Charlotte ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE
              Message 6 of 16 , May 25 1:55 PM
                Here you go! Let me know if you have questinos or suggestions.

                Charlotte


                >From: ldybryna@...
                >Reply-To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                >To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Isabeau of Bavaria
                >Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 16:22:39 EDT
                >
                >I would love a copy of your instructions, would youmind emailing them to
                >me,
                >
                >Thanks
                >Lady bryna olympia
                >Ldybryna@...
                >
                >
                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >

                _________________________________________________________________
                Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Cynthia Virtue
                ... Send it in text format in the body of the message -- the list removes attachments. -- Cynthia du Pré Argent (Hartshorn-dale, East) Such virtue hath my
                Message 7 of 16 , May 25 2:19 PM
                  > Here you go! Let me know if you have questinos or suggestions.

                  Send it in text format in the body of the message -- the list removes "attachments."

                  --
                  Cynthia du Pré Argent (Hartshorn-dale, East)
                  "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                  "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
                • Charlotte Zificsak
                  Greetings to the list! I just added the caul instructions to our webpage. It s one of those meager pages that you get just to say you re on-line, but now
                  Message 8 of 16 , May 25 9:34 PM
                    Greetings to the list!

                    I just added the caul instructions to our webpage. It's one of those meager
                    pages that you get just to say you're on-line, but now there's actual info!
                    Please feel free to comment, my projects are always a work in progress.

                    ISTTD,
                    Charlotte

                    http://www.geocities.com/zificsak/


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                  • caitlinnicraighne@juno.com
                    I love your handout and the picture of you wearing the cauls. I just have a few questions. 1) how long is your own hair. 2) what did you do with your own
                    Message 9 of 16 , May 26 8:12 PM
                      I love your handout and the picture of you wearing the cauls. I just
                      have a few questions. 1) how long is your own hair. 2) what did you
                      do with your own hair? 3) How does this style look from the side?
                      Thank you for your help.
                      Caitlin nic Raighne

                      > I just added the caul instructions to our webpage. It's one of
                      those meager
                      > pages that you get just to say you're on-line, but now there's
                      actual info!
                      > Please feel free to comment, my projects are always a work in
                      progress.
                      >
                      > ISTTD,
                      > Charlotte
                      >
                      > http://www.geocities.com/zificsak/
                      >
                      >
                      > _________________________________________________________________
                      > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                    • Charlotte Zificsak
                      Greetings all! I have just added another picture to my page, showing a side view of me wearing the cauls. My hair is just past my shoulderblades. For this set
                      Message 10 of 16 , May 29 9:01 AM
                        Greetings all!

                        I have just added another picture to my page, showing a side view of me
                        wearing the cauls. My hair is just past my shoulderblades. For this set of
                        cauls, I added additional hair. I'd found some illuminations which made it
                        look like there was hair coming back across the back of the head. I threw
                        it in a fake bun, just to try, thinking I could hide my hair under the bun.
                        Well, as you can see in the photo, it doesn't really look so good. It may
                        have looked better if I'd had the right color hair (hint: mixing two colors
                        has a great natural effect).

                        So for the new directions, I just have the fake hair in the cauls. I'll
                        probably just put my hair in a pretty braid, or two high buns right behind
                        the cauls. If you can somehow make it look like your hair is going up to the
                        cauls, that's great (if you have short hair, it would be really easy with a
                        little gel). But I've heard (I don't have sources though, so don't quote
                        me) that women in period used fake hair. Not so sure about the 14th
                        century, but I'm pretty sure the 15th c. Italians did.

                        Does anybody have any better ideas? That's the biggest conundrum about this
                        style.

                        In service,
                        Charlotte

                        www.geocities.com/zificsak/


                        >From: caitlinnicraighne@...
                        >Reply-To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: Isabeau of Bavaria
                        >Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 03:12:24 -0000
                        >
                        >I love your handout and the picture of you wearing the cauls. I just
                        >have a few questions. 1) how long is your own hair. 2) what did you
                        >do with your own hair? 3) How does this style look from the side?
                        >Thank you for your help.
                        >Caitlin nic Raighne
                        >
                        > > I just added the caul instructions to our webpage. It's one of
                        >those meager
                        > > pages that you get just to say you're on-line, but now there's
                        >actual info!
                        > > Please feel free to comment, my projects are always a work in
                        >progress.
                        > >
                        > > ISTTD,
                        > > Charlotte
                        > >
                        > > http://www.geocities.com/zificsak/
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > _________________________________________________________________
                        > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                        >

                        _________________________________________________________________
                        Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                      • Cynthia Virtue
                        ... Right. The pictures I ve seen, which are usually the plain-vertical-braids (no cauls) show the vertical braids, and then, seemingly unrelated to them, one
                        Message 11 of 16 , May 29 9:09 AM
                          Charlotte Zificsak wrote:
                          > I'd found some illuminations which made it
                          > look like there was hair coming back across the back of the head.

                          Right. The pictures I've seen, which are usually the
                          plain-vertical-braids (no cauls) show the vertical braids, and then,
                          seemingly unrelated to them, one or two braids going around the head at
                          the top of the neck, from ear to ear. I presume that if you had cauls,
                          you'd still have the top-of-the-neck braids. At any rate, it is a good
                          thing to do with extra hair.

                          I don't know how real hair could have gotten into the cauls. Let us say
                          that you have enough hair to try -- your braid is either going to start
                          near the ear, or up on top of your head near your temple. If it feeds
                          into the cylinder from below, there will be a loop from your ear to the
                          bottom of the caul (because the bottom of these cauls are lower than the
                          lowest hair-point -- near the jawline) -- something I haven't yet seen a
                          picture of. If the braid starts near the top opening of the caul, it
                          will either arch over the top of the caul (and supporting circlet) and
                          then dive into the cylinder. I haven't seen pictures of that version
                          either (medieval pictures; I know Norris has drawings.)

                          There is the false hair-on-a-band in the MoL books -- just two plaits of
                          hair, folded in half, and sewn to a fabric band.

                          --
                          Cynthia du Pré Argent (Hartshorn-dale, East)

                          "What did you do to the cat? It looks half-dead."
                          --Schrodinger's wife
                        • Cynthia Virtue
                          ... I just looked at Charlotte s picture from the side. I hadn t considered the stick in in from the middle option. Hmmm. I guess that this could work,
                          Message 12 of 16 , May 29 9:16 AM
                            Cynthia Virtue wrote:
                            > I don't know how real hair could have gotten into the cauls.

                            I just looked at Charlotte's picture from the side. I hadn't considered
                            the 'stick in in from the middle' option. Hmmm.

                            I guess that this could work, depending on how you see the whole
                            structure. Is it a metal cage, or is it folded bound hair with
                            ornamental metal bits top and bottom? The cage would be much more
                            difficult to work with, especially if the holes were very small or nonexistant.

                            I'm much more inclinded towards the cage interpretation, but we have so
                            little information, it could have been either.

                            --
                            Cynthia du Pré Argent (Hartshorn-dale, East)
                            "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                            "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
                          • danabren@juno.com
                            On Tue, 29 May 2001 12:16:51 -0400 Cynthia Virtue ... When I first started doing this style murmurmurmur years ago, I had 2 toilet paper
                            Message 13 of 16 , May 29 10:44 AM
                              On Tue, 29 May 2001 12:16:51 -0400 Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...>
                              writes:
                              > Cynthia Virtue wrote:
                              > > I don't know how real hair could have gotten into the cauls.
                              >
                              > I just looked at Charlotte's picture from the side. I hadn't
                              > considered
                              > the 'stick in in from the middle' option. Hmmm.
                              >
                              > I guess that this could work, depending on how you see the whole
                              > structure. Is it a metal cage, or is it folded bound hair with
                              > ornamental metal bits top and bottom? The cage would be much more
                              > difficult to work with, especially if the holes were very small or
                              > nonexistant.
                              >
                              > I'm much more inclinded towards the cage interpretation, but we have
                              > so little information, it could have been either.

                              When I first started doing this style murmurmurmur years ago, I had 2
                              toilet paper rolls, covered with fabric and held on by a ribbon, with my
                              (much shorter at the time) hair in a bun at the base of my neck, and a
                              half-circle veil over the top. My rationale for this style was that the
                              braided hair obviously went in the top, and just got stuffed down into
                              the tube, and there was no way that I was going to bother to try and
                              figure out how to do this. Being older, and having much longer hair now
                              :) I have changed my thoughts on this completely.

                              When I do the same braided hairstyle (without the templars), I lean my
                              head over and start the braid from nearly over my eyebrow. When I
                              straighten up, there's a nice squareness to the hair. I fold it at about
                              chin height, bring it back up to the top of the braid, (pinning it into
                              submission) and then cross the excess braid back and forth at the back of
                              my head (also pinning there until I probably resemble a hedgehog). If
                              doing the templars with this hairstyle, you could conceivably have the
                              hair drop right into it from the top, and have it look right. Having
                              read Cynthia's musings on this, (you're so inspirational!) I wonder if
                              possibly it isn't instead a netting or mesh that gets wrapped around the
                              braid, rather than a solid tube that the hair is inserted into (whether
                              from the side or the top). It might also be a solid tube, with a divot
                              shaped hole in the side by the top, so that the tube allows the braid to
                              drop in, without having to go "over the top" (as it were)

                              Danabren

                              ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^

                              "If you cannot set a good example then you'll just have to be a horrible
                              warning"
                              Catherine Aird
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