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Coifs and ties

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  • Cynthia Virtue
    Hi Folks, I did a little riff on coifs at our shire meeting today, and someone had been to a class at Pennsic last year about coifs, and the teacher had come
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 24, 2005
      Hi Folks,

      I did a little riff on coifs at our shire meeting today, and someone had
      been to a class at Pennsic last year about coifs, and the teacher had
      come up with a lack of evidence of ties.

      Do any of you have any information about the teacher or the class? I
      want to hunt it down and get cozy with it. It's a fascinating idea
      (although I'm fairly sure I could find an example or two, but I haven't
      looked yet.)

      I know I've seen a single-button in an illumination, and the class
      attendee said if it was the early period simple square-with-curved-seam,
      a sewn down strap worked just fine.

      --
      Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

      "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
      "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
    • Yolanda Graham
      Master Lyle FitzWilliam from the Barony of Bergental made his coif with a sewn down strap. I don t think he taught at Pennsic last year. I don t think he was
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 24, 2005
        Master Lyle FitzWilliam from the Barony of Bergental
        made his coif with a sewn down strap. I don't think
        he taught at Pennsic last year. I don't think he was
        at Pennsic last year. He's not on this list but I'mm
        ccing him this message so he can get in touch with
        you.

        YIS,

        Pagan

        I do believe I've seen images with loose ties as well
        as ones that seen to have either a button on the side
        or are a one piece strap.

        --- Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:

        > Hi Folks,
        >
        > I did a little riff on coifs at our shire meeting
        > today, and someone had
        > been to a class at Pennsic last year about coifs,
        > and the teacher had
        > come up with a lack of evidence of ties.
        >
        > Do any of you have any information about the teacher
        > or the class? I
        > want to hunt it down and get cozy with it. It's a
        > fascinating idea
        > (although I'm fairly sure I could find an example or
        > two, but I haven't
        > looked yet.)
        >
        > I know I've seen a single-button in an illumination,
        > and the class
        > attendee said if it was the early period simple
        > square-with-curved-seam,
        > a sewn down strap worked just fine.
        >
        > --
        > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
        >
        > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare,
        > Sonnet 81
        > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia
        > Virtue
        >
        >
        > Community email addresses:
        > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
        > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
        > Unsubscribe:
        > SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
        > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
        >
        > Shortcut URL to this page:
        > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        > SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        It is no accident that "stressed" spelled backwards is "desserts."






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      • Ciorstan
        ... As a side note: I know this isn t early period evidence, but the lowest layer of a French hood seems to be a coif of some kind, and there s evidence of
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 24, 2005
          Cynthia Virtue wrote:
          > Hi Folks,
          >
          > I did a little riff on coifs at our shire meeting today, and someone had
          > been to a class at Pennsic last year about coifs, and the teacher had
          > come up with a lack of evidence of ties.
          >
          > Do any of you have any information about the teacher or the class? I
          > want to hunt it down and get cozy with it. It's a fascinating idea
          > (although I'm fairly sure I could find an example or two, but I haven't
          > looked yet.)
          >
          > I know I've seen a single-button in an illumination, and the class
          > attendee said if it was the early period simple square-with-curved-seam,
          > a sewn down strap worked just fine.
          >



          As a side note: I know this isn't early period evidence, but the lowest
          layer of a French hood seems to be a coif of some kind, and there's
          evidence of under-chin straps:

          http://www.tudor-portraits.com/TBJacquelineBourgogne.jpg
          http://www.tudor-portraits.com/UnknownLady29.jpg

          And this is an interesting theory on how to make an earlier style of
          English french hood:

          http://www.modehistorique.com/elizabethan/coif.html

          It sure looks "right" on her. And I like the fact that the black veil
          she used has a bright RED silk lining that flashes when it moves!

          ciorstan
        • Kristine Elliott
          Are you talking about men s coifs in the high Middle Ages or women s coifs of the 16th century? Cateline
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
            Are you talking about men's coifs in the high Middle Ages or women's
            coifs of the 16th century?

            Cateline

            On 7/24/05, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:
            > Hi Folks,
            >
            > I did a little riff on coifs at our shire meeting today, and someone had
            > been to a class at Pennsic last year about coifs, and the teacher had
            > come up with a lack of evidence of ties.
            >
            > Do any of you have any information about the teacher or the class? I
            > want to hunt it down and get cozy with it. It's a fascinating idea
            > (although I'm fairly sure I could find an example or two, but I haven't
            > looked yet.)
            >
            > I know I've seen a single-button in an illumination, and the class
            > attendee said if it was the early period simple square-with-curved-seam,
            > a sewn down strap worked just fine.
            >
            > --
            > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
            >
            > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
            > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
            >
            >
            > Community email addresses:
            > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
            > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
            > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
            > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
            >
            > Shortcut URL to this page:
            > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Cynthia Virtue
            ... Men s, early period to mid period; the white close-fitting cap type. -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent Such virtue hath my pen....
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
              Kristine Elliott wrote:

              > Are you talking about men's coifs in the high Middle Ages or women's
              > coifs of the 16th century?

              Men's, early period to mid period; the white close-fitting cap type.

              --
              Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

              "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
              "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
            • danabren@verizon.net
              ... http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/october.jpg Shows a peasant wearing a close-fitting coif with ties. Danabren ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                >Men's, early period to mid period; the white close-fitting cap type.
                >
                >--
                >Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                http://humanities.uchicago.edu/images/heures/october.jpg

                Shows a peasant wearing a close-fitting coif with ties.

                Danabren

                ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.
              • Kristine Elliott
                Check out the Fecamp Psalter, dated 1180: http://collecties.meermanno.nl/handschriften/showmanu?id=1181 The calendar pictures in particular feature men wearing
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                  Check out the Fecamp Psalter, dated 1180:

                  http://collecties.meermanno.nl/handschriften/showmanu?id=1181

                  The calendar pictures in particular feature men wearing white coifs
                  tied under the chin.

                  Cateline

                  On 7/25/05, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:
                  > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                  >
                  > > Are you talking about men's coifs in the high Middle Ages or women's
                  > > coifs of the 16th century?
                  >
                  > Men's, early period to mid period; the white close-fitting cap type.
                  >
                  > --
                  > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                  >
                  > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                  > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                  >
                  >
                  > Community email addresses:
                  > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                  > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                  > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                  > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                  >
                  > Shortcut URL to this page:
                  > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Cynthia Virtue
                  ... I ll have to try later; it s being obstreporous. Do the images show the ties, or just that there s a strap of some kind? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                    Kristine Elliott wrote:

                    > Check out the Fecamp Psalter, dated 1180:
                    >
                    > http://collecties.meermanno.nl/handschriften/showmanu?id=1181
                    >
                    > The calendar pictures in particular feature men wearing white coifs
                    > tied under the chin.

                    I'll have to try later; it's being obstreporous. Do the images show the
                    ties, or just that there's a strap of some kind?

                    --
                    Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                    "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                    "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                  • Kristine Elliott
                    Ties that are distinctly tied. If you are still having trouble with these later, let me know and I can send you copies I made earlier of the calendar pages --
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                      Ties that are distinctly tied. If you are still having trouble with
                      these later, let me know and I can send you copies I made earlier of
                      the calendar pages -- after 4 today.

                      Cateline

                      On 7/25/05, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:
                      > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                      >
                      > > Check out the Fecamp Psalter, dated 1180:
                      > >
                      > > http://collecties.meermanno.nl/handschriften/showmanu?id=1181
                      > >
                      > > The calendar pictures in particular feature men wearing white coifs
                      > > tied under the chin.
                      >
                      > I'll have to try later; it's being obstreporous. Do the images show the
                      > ties, or just that there's a strap of some kind?
                      >
                      > --
                      > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                      >
                      > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                      > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                      >
                      >
                      > Community email addresses:
                      > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                      > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                      > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                      > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                      >
                      > Shortcut URL to this page:
                      > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      --
                    • Cynthia Virtue
                      ... When I click on the thumbnail, hoping to get a larger version, it takes me to a server which begins with hognose which is not responding. Does that
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                        Kristine Elliott wrote:

                        > Ties that are distinctly tied. If you are still having trouble with
                        > these later, let me know and I can send you copies I made earlier of
                        > the calendar pages -- after 4 today.

                        When I click on the thumbnail, hoping to get a larger version, it takes
                        me to a server which begins with "hognose" which is not responding.
                        Does that happen for you?

                        --
                        Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                        "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                        "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                      • souriete
                        ... Yes it is, today. Never happened to me before. I have extracted the coifs into one file and will put them in the Files section. Cateline
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                          --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@t...> wrote:
                          > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                          >
                          > > Ties that are distinctly tied. If you are still having trouble with
                          > > these later, let me know and I can send you copies I made earlier of
                          > > the calendar pages -- after 4 today.
                          >
                          > When I click on the thumbnail, hoping to get a larger version, it takes
                          > me to a server which begins with "hognose" which is not responding.
                          > Does that happen for you?
                          >
                          > --
                          > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                          >
                          > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                          > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue

                          Yes it is, today. Never happened to me before. I have extracted the
                          coifs into one file and will put them in the Files section.

                          Cateline
                        • Cynthia Virtue
                          ... Thank you very much! Those are great pictures. And, interestingly, Yahoo has done something obscure to make it impossible to copy images from their
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                            souriete wrote:

                            > Yes it is, today. Never happened to me before. I have extracted the
                            > coifs into one file and will put them in the Files section.

                            Thank you very much! Those are great pictures.

                            And, interestingly, Yahoo has done something obscure to make it
                            impossible to copy images from their directories. Innnnteresting.

                            I'll check back with the original website tomorrow to see if I can view
                            the images there.


                            --
                            Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                            "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                            "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                          • Caitriona Campbell
                            I found this a while back and saved it for reference. It s in french, but the picture leaves no doubt since you can well see the coif tied on top of the mans
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                              I found this a while back and saved it for reference.
                              It's in french, but the picture leaves no doubt since
                              you can well see the coif tied on top of the mans
                              head.

                              http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/medieval/francais/c265.htm

                              Caitriona Campbell

                              --- souriete <souriete@...> wrote:

                              > --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Cynthia Virtue
                              > <cvirtue@t...> wrote:
                              > > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Ties that are distinctly tied. If you are still
                              > having trouble with
                              > > > these later, let me know and I can send you
                              > copies I made earlier of
                              > > > the calendar pages -- after 4 today.


                              Caitriona, Karen, DragonLady
                              (My personality trinity)

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                            • Kristine Elliott
                              I can email you offlist a copy of that file or a copy of all of the calendar pictures. The latter will total close to 5 megs, though. Just let me know. This ms
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                                I can email you offlist a copy of that file or a copy of all of the
                                calendar pictures. The latter will total close to 5 megs, though. Just
                                let me know.

                                This ms was brought to my attention when I challenged the 12th century
                                list to prove to me that the coif was in use in the 12th century,
                                since they said it was, and I had only been able to find it in 13th
                                century illustrations. One of those cases where I loved being proved
                                wrong.

                                Cateline


                                On 7/25/05, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:
                                > souriete wrote:
                                >
                                > > Yes it is, today. Never happened to me before. I have extracted the
                                > > coifs into one file and will put them in the Files section.
                                >
                                > Thank you very much! Those are great pictures.
                                >
                                > And, interestingly, Yahoo has done something obscure to make it
                                > impossible to copy images from their directories. Innnnteresting.
                                >
                                > I'll check back with the original website tomorrow to see if I can view
                                > the images there.
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                                >
                                > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                                > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                                >
                                >
                                > Community email addresses:
                                > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                                > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                                > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                                >
                                > Shortcut URL to this page:
                                > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Cynthia Virtue
                                ... I love being proved wrong. It s like getting a chocolate truffle in email! I would be very grateful for the files whenever you re able to send them; I ve
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                                  Kristine Elliott wrote:

                                  > One of those cases where I loved being proved
                                  > wrong.

                                  I love being proved wrong. It's like getting a chocolate truffle in email!

                                  I would be very grateful for the files whenever you're able to send
                                  them; I've DSL so it won't be a problem. I'm planning to put one or two
                                  examples on my coif page and will credit you as the finder -- how would
                                  you like to be credited?

                                  Catriona and Danabren, I'll put up your examples also -- credits
                                  preference?

                                  --
                                  Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                                  "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                                  "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                                • Kristine Elliott
                                  Please credit the 12th century garb list! I am just the humble messenger. I ll send the files within the house to your personal email. Cateline ... --
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                                    Please credit the 12th century garb list! I am just the humble
                                    messenger. I'll send the files within the house to your personal
                                    email.

                                    Cateline

                                    On 7/25/05, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:
                                    > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > One of those cases where I loved being proved
                                    > > wrong.
                                    >
                                    > I love being proved wrong. It's like getting a chocolate truffle in email!
                                    >
                                    > I would be very grateful for the files whenever you're able to send
                                    > them; I've DSL so it won't be a problem. I'm planning to put one or two
                                    > examples on my coif page and will credit you as the finder -- how would
                                    > you like to be credited?
                                    >
                                    > Catriona and Danabren, I'll put up your examples also -- credits
                                    > preference?
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                                    >
                                    > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                                    > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia Virtue
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Community email addresses:
                                    > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                                    > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                                    > Unsubscribe: SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                    > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                                    >
                                    > Shortcut URL to this page:
                                    > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    --
                                  • danabren@verizon.net
                                    ... I just did a Google search to get the picture, just credit the site please. Danabren ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ Come to
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                                      >Catriona and Danabren, I'll put up your examples also -- credits
                                      >preference?
                                      >
                                      >--
                                      >Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                                      I just did a Google search to get the picture, just credit the site please.

                                      Danabren

                                      ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                                      Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.
                                    • Caitriona Campbell
                                      I d love to take credit for finding it, but I will have to admit I stumbled on it while I was looking at another costume site and it mentioned La Peinture
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                                        I'd love to take credit for finding it, but I will
                                        have to admit I stumbled on it while I was looking at
                                        another costume site and it mentioned La Peinture
                                        Medievale and gave the link. It features an english
                                        translation if you chose so I wandered all over the
                                        site looking at costume and everything else available
                                        there. I saved the coif tied up on the head simply
                                        because I'd never seen one represented that way
                                        before.

                                        Caitriona

                                        --- danabren@... wrote:

                                        >
                                        > >Catriona and Danabren, I'll put up your examples
                                        > also -- credits
                                        > >preference?
                                        > >
                                        > >--
                                        > >Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                                        >
                                        > I just did a Google search to get the picture, just
                                        > credit the site please.
                                        >
                                        > Danabren
                                        >
                                        > ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                                        > ^v^ ^v^
                                        > Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.
                                        >


                                        Caitriona, Karen, DragonLady
                                        (My personality trinity)



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                                      • Yolanda Graham
                                        It does the same to me. P~ ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                                          It does the same to me.

                                          P~

                                          --- Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:

                                          > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > Ties that are distinctly tied. If you are still
                                          > having trouble with
                                          > > these later, let me know and I can send you copies
                                          > I made earlier of
                                          > > the calendar pages -- after 4 today.
                                          >
                                          > When I click on the thumbnail, hoping to get a
                                          > larger version, it takes
                                          > me to a server which begins with "hognose" which is
                                          > not responding.
                                          > Does that happen for you?
                                          >
                                          > --
                                          > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                                          >
                                          > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare,
                                          > Sonnet 81
                                          > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia
                                          > Virtue
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Community email addresses:
                                          > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                                          > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                                          > Unsubscribe:
                                          > SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                          > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                                          >
                                          > Shortcut URL to this page:
                                          > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >


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                                        • Yolanda Graham
                                          Wait! I d like a copy as well . YIS, Pagan You can send it/them to this addy. I have cable so the file size is okhere too.
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jul 25, 2005
                                            Wait! I'd like a copy as well <delurking and jumping
                                            up and down>.

                                            YIS,

                                            Pagan

                                            You can send it/them to this addy. I have cable so
                                            the file size is okhere too.

                                            --- Kristine Elliott <souriete@...> wrote:

                                            > Please credit the 12th century garb list! I am just
                                            > the humble
                                            > messenger. I'll send the files within the house to
                                            > your personal
                                            > email.
                                            >
                                            > Cateline
                                            >
                                            > On 7/25/05, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            > > Kristine Elliott wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > > One of those cases where I loved being proved
                                            > > > wrong.
                                            > >
                                            > > I love being proved wrong. It's like getting a
                                            > chocolate truffle in email!
                                            > >
                                            > > I would be very grateful for the files whenever
                                            > you're able to send
                                            > > them; I've DSL so it won't be a problem. I'm
                                            > planning to put one or two
                                            > > examples on my coif page and will credit you as
                                            > the finder -- how would
                                            > > you like to be credited?
                                            > >
                                            > > Catriona and Danabren, I'll put up your examples
                                            > also -- credits
                                            > > preference?
                                            > >
                                            > > --
                                            > > Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
                                            > >
                                            > > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare,
                                            > Sonnet 81
                                            > > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia
                                            > Virtue
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Community email addresses:
                                            > > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                                            > > Subscribe:
                                            > SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                                            > > Unsubscribe:
                                            > SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                            > > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                                            > >
                                            > > Shortcut URL to this page:
                                            > > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Community email addresses:
                                            > Post message: SCA-Milliners@onelist.com
                                            > Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
                                            > Unsubscribe:
                                            > SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@onelist.com
                                            > List owner: SCA-Milliners-owner@onelist.com
                                            >
                                            > Shortcut URL to this page:
                                            > http://www.onelist.com/community/SCA-Milliners
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > SCA-Milliners-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


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