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Re: [SCA-Milliners] wimple/veiling question

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  • Naomi Banta
    Actually there are different protestant christian groups (not amish or mennonite) where the women practice covering their heads - but come on I wouldn t use a
    Message 1 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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      Actually there are different protestant christian groups (not amish or
      mennonite) where the women practice covering their heads - but come on I
      wouldn't use a wimple and veil for that! Very very hot.

      Constance

      "Doesn't anyone respect the traditional captive/captor relationship
      anymore?"
      -- Drakken, "Kim Possible: SO the Drama"
    • danabren@verizon.net
      ... I ve been called my lord (while wearing a Norman bliaut, go figure??), Jewish, Muslim, a nun, Sister Bertril.... Of course, that was in the old days,
      Message 2 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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        >My family tells me that the veil/snood/wimple make me look ancient. Really takes the fun out of being period correct. I strive to look like I stepped out of a painting or illumination.
        >
        >What sort of comments do others get?
        >Julie

        I've been called "my lord" (while wearing a Norman bliaut, go figure??), Jewish, Muslim, a nun, Sister Bertril....

        Of course, that was in the old days, before I bullied and chivvied and forced and nagged everyone around me to wear something on their head so that I wouldn't be surrounded by shameless women, but women of respectability and honor (heh)

        Danabren
        East

        ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
        Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.
      • Naomi Banta
        I wish I could manage that in our shire... I m the only one who wears a sort of headcovering of ANY sort on a regular basis -- if I m doing Elizabethan, it s
        Message 3 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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          I wish I could manage that in our shire... I'm the only one who wears a
          sort of headcovering of ANY sort on a regular basis -- if I'm doing
          Elizabethan, it's a caul.

          Of course they keep telling me I'm single to let the hair out -- but then
          again, corrupting me into Norman-saxon stuff is as far as they will succceed
          in corrupting me. (The seneschal said on my first appearance in a T-tunic
          (one year into my SCA experience) "Resistance is futile, you will be
          assimilated")

          Constance

          "Doesn't anyone respect the traditional captive/captor relationship
          anymore?"
          -- Drakken, "Kim Possible: SO the Drama"
        • Cynthia Virtue
          ... Here s what I did: Hold an afternoon seminar with cookies and such, at your house or a friend s. Be sure to advertise the cookies, encourage new folks,
          Message 4 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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            Naomi Banta wrote:
            > I wish I could manage that in our shire... I'm the only one who wears a
            > sort of headcovering of ANY sort on a regular basis

            Here's what I did:

            Hold an afternoon "seminar" with cookies and such, at your house or a
            friend's. Be sure to advertise the cookies, encourage new folks, etc.
            If you think your group isn't ready for sewing and cutting, call it a
            "come play with hats" snack session, and have lots of mirrors, bobby
            pins, yards of pearls for braiding, etc. A one-page handout with
            medieval images of a few types would be nice, but not necessary.

            After one or two of those, you can move onto a simple veil workshop or
            an easy Elizabethan caul, or a man's cylinder hat...

            --
            Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

            "Before I die with a hammer in my hand,
            I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord,
            Get me a steam drill too!"
            -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry
          • Kristen Dahle
            Constance writes: Actually there are different protestant christian groups (not amish or mennonite) where the women practice covering their heads - but come
            Message 5 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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              Constance writes: Actually there are different protestant christian groups (not amish or
              mennonite) where the women practice covering their heads - but come on I
              wouldn't use a wimple and veil for that! Very very hot.
              I think it depends what fabric you make your veils from. My linen veils tend to keep me cooler on hot days (no sun on my head, but they still catch any breeze) and warmer on cold days (esp. in combination with my wool hood).

              Many of the women in my family wear a hat or small veil (about the size of an embroidered handkerchief) during their Missionary Baptist church services.

              Pax,
              Elisa

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Melanie Cozad
              After reading the rest of the comments on this thread, I feel very fortunate that most comments about my veils and wimples are positive. In fact, my veil and
              Message 6 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                After reading the rest of the comments on this thread, I feel very
                fortunate that most comments about my veils and wimples are positive.
                In fact, my veil and wimple ensemble is what caused my husband to
                first notice me and think, "Gosh, she's cute!" :)

                Cheers,
                Melissent

                On 5/31/05, Julie <jtknits@...> wrote:
                > My family tells me that the veil/snood/wimple make me look ancient. Really
                > takes the fun out of being period correct. I strive to look like I stepped
                > out of a painting or illumination.
                >
                > What sort of comments do others get?
                > Julie


                --
                Melanie Cozad
                Lady Melissent d'Artois [Exchequer, Barony of Ponte Alto, Kingdom of Atlantia]
                Milicent Chapman [Lord Grey's Retinue, 15th Century Living History]
                melaniesuzanne@...
              • Elinor Salter
                ... I asked my husband - and he doesn t like my veil! He says it covers up my face too much (the veil fluttering down the sides). Wow, I would never have
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                  Julie wrote on 5/31/2005 5:03 PM:

                  > My family tells me that the veil/snood/wimple make me look ancient.
                  > Really takes the fun out of being period correct. I strive to look
                  > like I stepped out of a painting or illumination.
                  >
                  > What sort of comments do others get?
                  > Julie
                  >
                  I asked my husband - and he doesn't like my veil! He says it covers up
                  my face too much (the veil fluttering down the sides). Wow, I would
                  never have known if he hadn't had told me.

                  I'm going to wear my veil no matter what he thinks, but I think I'll try
                  to find a flowier one. I know he'll hate the wimple that I'm going to
                  try as well. Maybe I'll do a coffee filter hat with barbette to keep
                  him happy. =)

                  --
                  - Elinor Salter
                • Julie
                  Oops - sorry if I started something. I have waist length hair and hubby likes long hair. Is there an appropriate headcovering for a married women where her
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                    Oops - sorry if I started something.
                    I have waist length hair and hubby likes long hair. Is there an appropriate headcovering for a married women where her hair is visible?

                    I have plans for the coffee filter hat, but isn't a caul worn with that? I think I've seen manuscripts with ladies with loose hair but are they married or single? I tend to skip the veiling when hubby's at events.
                    Julie

                    ---- <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    > I asked my husband - and he doesn't like my veil! He says it covers up
                    > my face too much (the veil fluttering down the sides). Wow, I would
                    > never have known if he hadn't had told me.
                    >
                    > I'm going to wear my veil no matter what he thinks, but I think I'll try
                    > to find a flowier one. I know he'll hate the wimple that I'm going to
                    > try as well. Maybe I'll do a coffee filter hat with barbette to keep
                    > him happy. =)
                    >
                  • Cynthia Virtue
                    ... No bare heads for northern Europe in the middle ages, unless you re Queen or a Saint, or a child. There s braided and updos of various sorts for Italian
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                      Julie wrote:
                      > Oops - sorry if I started something. I have waist length hair and
                      > hubby likes long hair. Is there an appropriate headcovering for a
                      > married women where her hair is visible?

                      No bare heads for northern Europe in the middle ages, unless you're
                      Queen or a Saint, or a child.

                      There's braided and updos of various sorts for Italian Ren and later,
                      though.

                      > I have plans for the coffee filter hat, but isn't a caul worn with
                      > that?

                      Not always. The Manesse codex shows loose hair on some of the ladies.
                      I don't know their marital status.

                      Although I think that the right headcovering is a really good idea, for
                      both medieval and practical reasons, I'm not going to scold anyone for
                      not wearing it. If you need to convince a sweetheart, may I suggest
                      getting snuggly while wearing the headcovering? I'm sure your
                      imaginations can take it from there.

                      (Rant warning)
                      One thing that does bug me though is women of more than 20 years saying
                      "I'm not married, so I can have my hair down." By the time you were out
                      of your teens, you'd definitely be married, or if not, would be dressing
                      modestly to fit in with your age group who were. It's not a valid
                      excuse. If you don't want to wear a headcovering, just don't!

                      --
                      Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                      "Want to see my Brass Rubbings?"
                      "Mediaevalist on Board" license plate frames
                      at http://www.cafepress.com/virtueventures
                    • danabren@verizon.net
                      ... There is documentation for every combination of fillet (coffee filter hat), crespinette (hair net), barbette (chin strap) and veil.
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                        >I have plans for the coffee filter hat, but isn't a caul worn with that? I think I've seen manuscripts with ladies with loose hair but are they married or single? I tend to skip the veiling when hubby's at events.
                        >Julie


                        There is documentation for every combination of fillet (coffee filter hat), crespinette (hair net), barbette (chin strap) and veil.

                        http://www.baronmorgan.gallowglass.org/articles/cna07_plantaganetcap.html

                        has a handout of mine with multiple pictures of some of the various combinations.

                        The Manasse Codex, among others, has images of ladies wearing fillets over their unbound hair.

                        Danabren
                        East
                      • Andi Pennell
                        ... I can totally back this up. My husband didn t really care one way or the other when I began covering my hair appropriately for my 16th century clothes,
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                          On 6/1/05, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:
                          > Julie wrote:
                          > > Oops - sorry if I started something. I have waist length hair and
                          > > hubby likes long hair. Is there an appropriate headcovering for a
                          > > married women where her hair is visible?
                          > If you need to convince a sweetheart, may I suggest
                          > getting snuggly while wearing the headcovering? I'm sure your
                          > imaginations can take it from there.
                          >

                          I can totally back this up. My husband didn't really care one way or
                          the other when I began covering my hair appropriately for my 16th
                          century clothes, but once he realized he was the only one who got to
                          see/touch my hair that day, he started to really like it. Of course
                          we're both huge geeks and a little odd anyway.

                          -Abigail Pinel
                          (Andi Scott)
                          Shire of the Shadowlands
                          Ansteorra (College Station, Texas)
                        • Dianne & Greg Stucki
                          ... From: Naomi Banta To: Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners]
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Naomi Banta" <ladynai@...>
                            To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 9:21 AM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] wimple/veiling question


                            >I wish I could manage that in our shire... I'm the only one who wears a
                            > sort of headcovering of ANY sort on a regular basis -- if I'm doing
                            > Elizabethan, it's a caul.

                            Danabren shamed me into it...she called me a hussy!

                            grins

                            Laurensa
                          • Yolanda Graham
                            ... ... Whoever said that must be seriously blind since Her Excellency Mistress Danabren looks NOTHING like a man! ... Me too. I think I awarded my
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                              --- danabren@... wrote:
                              <snip>
                              >>
                              > I've been called "my lord" (while wearing a Norman
                              > bliaut, go figure??), Jewish, Muslim, a nun, Sister
                              > Bertril....
                              >

                              Whoever said that must be seriously blind since Her
                              Excellency Mistress Danabren looks NOTHING like a man!


                              > Of course, that was in the old days, before I
                              > bullied and chivvied and forced and nagged everyone
                              > around me to wear something on their head so that I
                              > wouldn't be surrounded by shameless women, but women
                              > of respectability and honor (heh)
                              >
                              > Danabren
                              > East
                              >
                              >
                              Me too. I think I awarded my Maunche for nag!


                              YIS,

                              Pagan
                              East ( the pelican not the laurel)

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                            • danabren@verizon.net
                              ... It was pretty humorous (to me) - I was wearing a draped veil cum wimple, and the poor merchant was looking at my back. I turned around when he said Good
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                >> I've been called "my lord" (while wearing a Norman
                                >> bliaut, go figure??), Jewish, Muslim, a nun, Sister
                                >> Bertril....
                                >>
                                >
                                >Whoever said that must be seriously blind since Her
                                >Excellency Mistress Danabren looks NOTHING like a man!

                                It was pretty humorous (to me) - I was wearing a draped veil cum wimple, and the poor merchant was looking at my back. I turned around when he said "Good day, my lord", and he was utterly mortified. Since I'd only wandered idly into his booth and hadn't planned on actually buying anything at that time, I'm sure he thinks that I didn't spend any money there because I was insulted (I wasn't, really).

                                Poor guy!

                                But this is, of course, why we need to educate people about proper headwear, so that no one ever thinks that a draped veil is worn by a Northern European male! :)

                                Danabren

                                ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                                Come to the Dark Side. We have cookies.
                              • Cynthia Virtue
                                I ve been mistaken for Duke Cariadoc! Granted, I m short and plump, he likewise (at least at the time) we were living in the same shire, and I was wearing the
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                  I've been mistaken for Duke Cariadoc!

                                  Granted, I'm short and plump, he likewise (at least at the time) we were
                                  living in the same shire, and I was wearing the wrapped linen headwrap,
                                  and my back was turned.

                                  --
                                  Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent

                                  "Before I die with a hammer in my hand,
                                  I'm gonna get me a steam drill, too, Lord, Lord,
                                  Get me a steam drill too!"
                                  -- The Smothers Brothers version of The Ballad of John Henry
                                • Naomi Banta
                                  I m threatening to start a medieval hat shop actually.... Mainly because I am good at hat making (I am the one who is known for things like cauls and
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                    I'm threatening to start a medieval hat shop actually.... Mainly because I
                                    am good at hat making (I am the one who is known for things like cauls and
                                    headrolls and stuff like that...). I've done two A&S projects and both
                                    have dealt with caps -- 16th century in that case... One caul and the one
                                    mysterious cap that I had later found that my question was all the way out
                                    on the Calontir textile's list. (I'm Midrealm)

                                    I'm hoping that maybe some A&S night I can do some stuff on medieval hats --
                                    I'll talk to our MOAS -- she's really cool, but I never want to presume too
                                    much, have only been involved in the society a little more then a year...

                                    Constance, who got her membership card yesterday YAY ME!

                                    "Doesn't anyone respect the traditional captive/captor relationship
                                    anymore?"
                                    -- Drakken, "Kim Possible: SO the Drama"
                                  • Maitresse Yvianne
                                    ... I ve been wearing a veil and wimple for 10+ years. Folks are so used to seeing my head covered that I get called a hussy anytime I don t wear anything on
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jun 1, 2005
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                                      > Danabren shamed me into it...she called me a hussy!
                                      >
                                      > grins
                                      > Laurensa

                                      I've been wearing a veil and wimple for 10+ years. Folks are so used to
                                      seeing my head covered that I get called a hussy anytime I don't wear
                                      anything on it. As a Youth marshal/ heavy weapons fighter I have to wear a
                                      coif to the field or else I get the same abuse :-)

                                      It's sort of nice that folks notice

                                      Yvianne
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