Re: Matheron Triptych hood?
- --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "mathildegirlgenius"
> http://www.wga.hu/art/f/froment/diptych.jpgIt seems to me if it was folded back twice, you would only see one
> It looks to me like a fairly normal open hood, that has been folded
> back twice.
edge. It would have to be accordian pleated back to show two edges.
When I think of how long it would have to be to fold that way (like
15" longer than the current front edge) I just can't imagine a hood
being that deep.
From my investigations, this style of hood was generally French from
the late 15th century. The tend was towards a soft rounded hood
versus the rigid hennins. There is a good picture of the back and
side of one in Gerard David's "The Marriage at Cana", c. 1500 (
http://www.wga.hu/art/d/david/2/cana_mar.jpg ). She is the one in
the center near the guy standing with the wine jugs. A similar one
can be seen by one of the ladies in one of the Unicorn Tapestries (
http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/Unicorn/unicorn_clothing_2.htm ). I
have seen one picture (which I can not find now) where you can see
lines running along the hat indicating seams
The hoods seemed to be multi layer versus a multi folded lappet
I have found one example from England (http://www.mbs-
brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Stokesby_Brass.htm ), but women were mostly
depicted with a hennin like style ( http://www.mbs-
I believe it to be an intermediate style between the truncated
hennins and the French hood.
--- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@t...>
> Holly Stockley wrote:between a
> > I'd have guessed lappets, too. This almost looks like a cross
> > hood and a truncated henin.
> The wrinkles at the back of the head make me think it's soft, not
> firm/stiff like a truncated hennin.
> Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pre Argent
> I'd have guessed lappets, too. This almost looks like a crossbetween a
> hood and a truncated henin.Hi,
Thanks for looking at my hand out. It was done for Pennsic and I'm
still trying to format it to a web page. I have loaded more of the
pictures but I'm still trying to get it all formatted and "pretty"
It is exausting work :)
I'm wondering if the henins with lappets are worn over this style of
hood? The back of the hood is form fitting to the lady's head and a
hat could fit over it.
For the double lappet look could you pleat back the hood front pin
it and get the double fold look? You would not have to have a
really deep front either. A few hidden pins could hold the pleat in
place. The paining is a bit dark to get a lot of details.
things to check out:
tall henin's with lappets
There is aonther one in a Medieval Women's Calendar the women is
wearing a tall henin, with very short lappets that curve like dog
ears just at her jaw line. This is a french image.
early French hoods transition after the henin
- Hi Mathilde,
Have you seen the work of Marie Chantal Cadieux? She makes a hood very similar
in style to this one, except in white linen. She also makes open faced hoods
which are a variation but close to what you are looking for, and has some
theories as to how they were constructed. Her website is
There are other pictures on the site of late 15th century French
illuminations, you might have to dig around to find them.
She is generally happy to answer questions, but there has also been a
discussion of the hoods that she makes in this MedCos forum:
if you'd prefer to start there.
Don't expect proper grammar from me, it's way to early in the morning *ugh*
^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
"Some mornings it just doesn't pay to gnaw through the leather straps"
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Re: Matheron Triptych hood?
> Is that a chin strap the (presumed) donatrice is wearing, just beneath her
> chin, and not affiliated with the necklace below that which looks similar?
Sure looks like one. It clearly goes from one side of the headdress to the
other, and certainly appears to be attached to it on one side.
Note weasel words. I have not yet had enough coffee to trust my own vision.
Must mainline more coffeeeeeee.
> I'm wondering if the henins with lappets are worn over this styleof
> hood? The back of the hood is form fitting to the lady's head anda
> hat could fit over it.That's exactly what I was thinking. I'd eventually like to make a
hennin, and thought maybe this piece would be a good base article.
The hood would be a very sturdy base, and the lappets would
counterweight the hennin. Also, as I'm wearing this for camping next
weekend, it might be a nice "in camp" look, then when the public
comes by for the demo (other events, not this one) I can put on the
hennin and explain.
> For the double lappet look could you pleat back the hood front pinin
> it and get the double fold look? You would not have to have a
> really deep front either. A few hidden pins could hold the pleat
> place. The paining is a bit dark to get a lot of details.Yeah, I know. :-) Wish I could see the original. This is what I
originally pictured when I saw the hood. Of course, I'm coming at it
from a generally earlier 15th century background, so I would see
a "hood". As Rashid pointed out, it would have to be an accordian
pleat, which is what I was actually imagining. A hood, made very
deep and designed to pleat twice. It would explain what looks like a
double fold to me.
You know, it might not even need that much to hold it - I'm going to
do it in a heavy wool, that holds its shape pretty well. Ah, the
joys of fulled wool - don't need to finish the edges! :-D
Link again, just in case people don't still have it...
My only worry now is that the style is too late for me. The painting
is attributed at 1474, and my group portrays 1471. 3 years off I'm
willing to do, especially because it has the look (to me) of what
could be under a contemporary henin. But if it's just a precursor to
the later French hood, maybe Jeanne de Laval was more chic than I
give her credit for. She's a queen, I'm only a minor gentlewoman.
Thanks for the links!
The good news is, the dress that this is going with is done! I'll
post pics as soon as I get them uploaded (the other computer is on
the blitz, though).
- Wonderful! Thank you for the links. That puts more context around it.
> The hoods seemed to be multi layer versus a multi folded lappetYes, these others definitely look like multi layer. It looks to me
like she has two folds at the front of her head. I wonder how to get
that without the aforementioned accordian pleating? I'll have to
play with it.
> I have found one example from England (http://www.mbs-*sigh* Unfortunatly, we have so LITTLE from England in the 15th
> brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/Stokesby_Brass.htm ), but women were mostly
> depicted with a hennin like style ( http://www.mbs-
> brasses.co.uk/pic_lib/picture_library-jewellery.htm ).
century. Even the Web Gallery of Art has *nothing* for 1400-1500. If
anybody has more than these brasses, please let me know!
> --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Cynthia Virtue<cvirtue@t...>
> > The wrinkles at the back of the head make me think it's soft,
> > firm/stiff like a truncated hennin.I was wondering, if it's gathered back there? Then if it stops at
the nape of the neck, or continues down like a 15th c hood?
And re: the Marie Chantal link:
I still haven't found the white hood, but I'll keep looking. She
really does have quite a site. I really enjoy all of her sources -
there's some artwork I just haven't seen elsewhere! Her theories on
breast binding are very interesting as well.