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Crescent Roll

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  • kelsiemca
    I m trying to locate a picture that I remember. I think it is late 14th/early 15th. There are padded roll type headdresses, at least one of which is crescent
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 28 4:04 PM
      I'm trying to locate a picture that I remember. I think it is late
      14th/early 15th. There are padded roll type headdresses, at least
      one of which is crescent shaped (like a miniature bum-roll), and the
      hair is in a single long plait, out through the back of the roll.

      Can anyone help with name or location of this image?

      Thanks
      Kelsie
    • Cynthia Virtue
      ... There are more than a few with the plait, but all the ones I know of are not crescents, but donut-shaped. Is it a particular picture you re thinking of?
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 28 4:31 PM
        kelsiemca wrote:

        > I'm trying to locate a picture that I remember. I think it is late
        > 14th/early 15th. There are padded roll type headdresses, at least
        > one of which is crescent shaped (like a miniature bum-roll), and the
        > hair is in a single long plait, out through the back of the roll.

        There are more than a few with the plait, but all the ones I know of are
        not crescents, but donut-shaped.

        Is it a particular picture you're thinking of? If so, can you tell us
        more about what else is going on in the picture?

        --
        Cynthia Virtue and/or
        Cynthia du Pré Argent

        There are a lot of people who don't believe what they read in the
        newspaper, but will believe any fool thing someone forwards to them in
        email.
      • danabren@verizon.net
        ... It sounds like a picture from the Tres Riches Heures of Jean, Duc de Berry. Does anyone have a direct link to the engagement page, so that I don t have
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 28 5:47 PM
          > I'm trying to locate a picture that I remember. I think it is late
          > 14th/early 15th. There are padded roll type headdresses, at least
          > one of which is crescent shaped (like a miniature bum-roll), and the
          > hair is in a single long plait, out through the back of the roll.
          >
          > Can anyone help with name or location of this image?
          >
          > Thanks
          > Kelsie

          It sounds like a picture from the Tres Riches Heures of Jean, Duc de Berry. Does anyone have a direct link to the "engagement" page, so that I don't have to scan it?

          Danabren
        • Zohra Rawling
          ... http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/f4v.html this one? I have been eyeing the black dress with the blue under for about a year now. *g* ysabella ...
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 28 6:22 PM
            On Aug 28, 2004, at 8:47 PM, danabren@... wrote:
            >>
            >
            > It sounds like a picture from the Tres Riches Heures of Jean, Duc de
            > Berry. Does anyone have a direct link to the "engagement" page, so
            > that I don't have to scan it?
            >
            > Danabren
            http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/f4v.html

            this one?

            I have been eyeing the black dress with the blue under for about a year
            now. *g*


            ysabella



            --------------------------------------------------------
            "Logic is not the strong point of critics"
          • danabren@verizon.net
            ... Yes - thank you! It s not the best resolution (or at least that s how it shows on my monitor) but you can see both roundel and gently shaped heart-shaped
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 28 8:11 PM
              > On Aug 28, 2004, at 8:47 PM, danabren@... wrote:
              > >>
              > >
              > > It sounds like a picture from the Tres Riches Heures of Jean, Duc de
              > > Berry. Does anyone have a direct link to the "engagement" page, so
              > > that I don't have to scan it?
              > >
              > > Danabren
              > http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/f4v.html
              >
              > this one?

              Yes - thank you! It's not the best resolution (or at least that's how it shows on my monitor) but you can see both roundel and gently shaped heart-shaped roundels with a single braid dw the back, with hair in what seems to be in a poinytail at the nape of the neck, and in cauls - all in one picture :)

              > I have been eyeing the black dress with the blue under for about a year
              > now. *g*

              Isn't it nice that you now know how to make it *grin*

              Danabren

              ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
              "You will find it a very good practice always to verify your references, sir!"
              Dr. Routh 1755-1854
            • Zohra Rawling
              ... lol yes now I just need the time *g* hmm coronation...yes I have time mwa hahaa don t tell my laurel...oh wait.... ysabella ... ceteri populi obtingimus
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 28 9:54 PM
                On Aug 28, 2004, at 11:11 PM, danabren@... wrote:



                >
                >> I have been eyeing the black dress with the blue under for about a
                >> year
                >> now. *g*
                >
                > Isn't it nice that you now know how to make it *grin*

                lol yes

                now I just need the time *g*

                hmm coronation...yes I have time mwa hahaa
                don't tell my laurel...oh wait....


                ysabella



                > ____________________
                ceteri populi obtingimus


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • kelsie
                ... Sorry that s not it. I seem to recall that they are sitting down at a table , but that may be wrong. The rolls are much smaller, and the plait definitely
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 28 11:02 PM
                  > http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/f4v.html
                  >
                  > this one?
                  >
                  Sorry that's not it. I seem to recall that they are sitting down at a
                  table , but that may be wrong. The rolls are much smaller, and the plait
                  definitely comes out through the roll.

                  Kelsie
                • Katherine Barich
                  Sounds Flemish to me. Katherine
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 28 11:14 PM
                    Sounds Flemish to me.

                    Katherine

                    >Sorry that's not it. I seem to recall that they are sitting down at a<BR>
                    >table , but that may be wrong. The rolls are much smaller, and the plait<BR>
                    >definitely comes out through the roll.<BR>
                    ><BR>
                    >Kelsie<BR>
                    ><BR>
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                  • Cynthia Virtue
                    ... There s one at the bottom of this page: http://www.virtue.to/articles/braiding.html I don t recall either small rolls, or folks around a table, sorry. --
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 29 6:12 AM
                      kelsie wrote:
                      > Sorry that's not it. I seem to recall that they are sitting down at a
                      > table , but that may be wrong. The rolls are much smaller, and the plait
                      > definitely comes out through the roll.

                      There's one at the bottom of this page:
                      http://www.virtue.to/articles/braiding.html

                      I don't recall either small rolls, or folks around a table, sorry.

                      --
                      Cynthia Virtue and/or
                      Cynthia du Pré Argent

                      Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win!
                    • Rebecca Perry
                      What about this one - click on W in the index at the left, then Weyden, Rogier van der, then the St Columba Altarpiece, last two images at the bottom of the
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 29 7:33 AM
                        What about this one - click on W in the index at the left, then Weyden,
                        Rogier van der, then the St Columba Altarpiece, last two images at the
                        bottom of the page:

                        http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html

                        or this one from Mistress Cynthia's website, down at the very bottom of the
                        page:

                        http://www.virtue.to/articles/women_roll_hats.html

                        Or perhaps the one with the ladies sitting on a family tree?

                        http://www.virtue.to/articles/headband.html

                        None of these is quite what you are describing, I know. I have to say I've
                        never seen a head roll that looked remotely crescent shaped, unfortunately.
                        I don't know if any of these will have helped, but I hope so. If you do ever
                        find it, please post it here, I'd be most interested to see it!

                        Savina



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: kelsiemca [mailto:kelsie@...]
                        Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 5:05 PM
                        To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Crescent Roll



                        I'm trying to locate a picture that I remember. I think it is late
                        14th/early 15th. There are padded roll type headdresses, at least
                        one of which is crescent shaped (like a miniature bum-roll), and the
                        hair is in a single long plait, out through the back of the roll.

                        Can anyone help with name or location of this image?

                        Thanks
                        Kelsie


                        ---
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                        Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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                      • danabren@verizon.net
                        ... Hm. There s an Italian Ren picture where some folks are playing tarocchi, and one of the women has her back to the viewer. She s wearing a big
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 29 7:38 AM
                          > > http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/f4v.html
                          > >
                          > > this one?
                          > >
                          > Sorry that's not it. I seem to recall that they are sitting down at a
                          > table , but that may be wrong. The rolls are much smaller, and the plait
                          > definitely comes out through the roll.
                          >
                          > Kelsie

                          Hm. There's an Italian Ren picture where some folks are playing tarocchi, and one of the women has her back to the viewer. She's wearing a big mickey-mouse-like hat, probably made of woven reeds or willow withies, and her braid comes out of the back. Does that sound right?

                          Danabren

                          ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                          "You will find it a very good practice always to verify your references, sir!"
                          Dr. Routh 1755-1854
                        • danabren@verizon.net
                          ... Oh - wait - are talking about the allegorical picture of Music , where she s playing a dulcimer, in front of a table of diners? It was in a Medieval Woman
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 29 7:49 AM
                            > Sorry that's not it. I seem to recall that they are sitting down at a
                            > table , but that may be wrong. The rolls are much smaller, and the plait
                            > definitely comes out through the roll.

                            Oh - wait - are talking about the allegorical picture of "Music", where she's playing a dulcimer, in front of a table of diners? It was in a Medieval Woman calendar.

                            Danabren

                            ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                            "You will find it a very good practice always to verify your references, sir!"
                            Dr. Routh 1755-1854
                          • kelsie
                            ... That s a good thought. That would explain why I can t find it now. I don t know if that s it. I only have 2000 but for I while I had borrowed some others
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 29 11:14 PM
                              >
                              > Oh - wait - are talking about the allegorical picture of
                              > "Music", where she's playing a dulcimer, in front of a table
                              > of diners? It was in a Medieval Woman calendar.
                              >
                              > Danabren
                              >
                              That's a good thought. That would explain why I can't find it now.

                              I don't know if that's it. I only have 2000 but for I while I had
                              borrowed some others from a friend, so I may have seen it there.
                              Unfortunately, she has recently shifted house so everything is still
                              packed in boxes.

                              Any chance you could scan it to somewhere?

                              Kelsie
                            • uxbridgefox
                              ... I posted a scan of the image I think you all are talking about in Crescent hats under the photo section.. The image is from late 15th century France, from
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 30 6:19 AM
                                > Any chance you could scan it to somewhere?
                                >
                                > Kelsie

                                I posted a scan of the image I think you all are talking about in
                                Crescent hats under the photo section..

                                The image is from late 15th century France, from the 1993 Medieval
                                Woman's calander.

                                Eleanor
                              • Cynthia Virtue
                                ... Although I belive this is a fantasy/allegorical hat, if I were to make it, I d use a regular stuffed roll, not a crescent. The apparent crescent-ness is
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 30 7:15 AM
                                  uxbridgefox wrote:

                                  > The image is from late 15th century France, from the 1993 Medieval
                                  > Woman's calander.

                                  Although I belive this is a fantasy/allegorical hat, if I were to make
                                  it, I'd use a regular stuffed roll, not a crescent. The apparent
                                  crescent-ness is just because it goes behind the head.

                                  Is this the one you were thinking of, Kelsie?

                                  --
                                  Cynthia Virtue and/or
                                  Cynthia du Pré Argent

                                  Register to vote! Don't let that other guy win!
                                • Jennifer Poulin
                                  It has always seemed to me that the woman in this van Der Weyden painting has a crescent Shaped roll under her linen headdress, to give it the shape it has.
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 30 1:21 PM
                                    It has always seemed to me that the woman in this van Der Weyden
                                    painting has a crescent Shaped roll under her linen headdress, to
                                    give it the shape it has. (third frame down the page)

                                    http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html

                                    Matilda

                                    --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "kelsiemca" <kelsie@e...> wrote:
                                    > I'm trying to locate a picture that I remember. I think it is late
                                    > 14th/early 15th. There are padded roll type headdresses, at least
                                    > one of which is crescent shaped (like a miniature bum-roll), and
                                    the
                                    > hair is in a single long plait, out through the back of the roll.
                                    >
                                    > Can anyone help with name or location of this image?
                                    >
                                    > Thanks
                                    > Kelsie
                                  • Jennifer Poulin
                                    It s the Bladelin Triptych (left wing) under van der Weyden. Sorry about that! Matilda
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 30 1:23 PM
                                      It's the Bladelin Triptych (left wing) under van der Weyden. Sorry
                                      about that!

                                      Matilda

                                      --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer Poulin"
                                      <matilda_la_zouche@y...> wrote:
                                      > It has always seemed to me that the woman in this van Der Weyden
                                      > painting has a crescent Shaped roll under her linen headdress, to
                                      > give it the shape it has. (third frame down the page)
                                      >
                                      > http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/index1.html
                                      >
                                      > Matilda
                                      >
                                    • kelsie
                                      ... Aha, I ve found it, thanks to the reminder about medieval woman calendar. It s in 2001. I ve uploaded it to the photos/crescent roll folder. It s from
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Sep 7, 2004
                                        >
                                        > > The image is from late 15th century France, from the 1993 Medieval
                                        > > Woman's calander.
                                        >
                                        > Although I belive this is a fantasy/allegorical hat, if I
                                        > were to make
                                        > it, I'd use a regular stuffed roll, not a crescent. The apparent
                                        > crescent-ness is just because it goes behind the head.
                                        >
                                        > Is this the one you were thinking of, Kelsie?

                                        Aha, I've found it, thanks to the reminder about medieval woman
                                        calendar.

                                        It's in 2001. I've uploaded it to the photos/crescent roll folder.

                                        It's from Boccaccio. Le livre des cent nouvelles.
                                        MS. Fr. 129, fol. 129. French 15th century.
                                        Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris.

                                        Left side.

                                        Thanks.

                                        Does anyone know what the lump holding the plait is?

                                        Kelsie
                                      • danabren@verizon.net
                                        ... Sure looks like a scrunchie, doesn t it? :) I d guess it s probably not a slippery silk but a coarser, more grippy fabric. A noil or dupioni, or a
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Sep 8, 2004
                                          > Aha, I've found it, thanks to the reminder about medieval woman
                                          > calendar.
                                          >
                                          > It's in 2001. I've uploaded it to the photos/crescent roll folder.
                                          >
                                          > It's from Boccaccio. Le livre des cent nouvelles.
                                          > MS. Fr. 129, fol. 129. French 15th century.
                                          > Bibliotheque Nationale, Paris.
                                          >
                                          > Left side.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks.
                                          >
                                          > Does anyone know what the lump holding the plait is?
                                          >
                                          > Kelsie

                                          Sure looks like a scrunchie, doesn't it? :) I'd guess it's probably not a slippery silk but a coarser, more grippy fabric. A noil or dupioni, or a cotton or linen, perhaps. Cotton would have been an expensive import and would have been more a show of wealth than linen.

                                          Danabren
                                        • uxbridgefox
                                          ... I posted another picture to the cresent directory, It is a portrait of Mary Magdalen by the italian painter Carlos Crivilli c.1473 In this painting the
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Sep 9, 2004
                                            > Sure looks like a scrunchie, doesn't it?

                                            I posted another picture to the cresent directory, It is a portrait
                                            of Mary Magdalen by the italian painter Carlos Crivilli c.1473

                                            In this painting the ponytail holder is in nice detail, and it looks
                                            like maybe a strip of linen.

                                            Good Luck
                                            Eleanor le Brun
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