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Re: Veils and why I hate them

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  • Chris Laning
    ...
    Message 1 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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      Slaine wrote:

      >Part of the reason I started doing 13th century was that I could
      >do the circlet and net thing with no veil. Yeah, there's still a
      >barbette (the choaky neck thing) but I found that if I made my own
      >to fit out linen it was much more comfortable. Pinning a veil over
      <this whole contraption was much easier than wearing it closer to
      >my head.

      If you have a cloth strip pinned around your head -- either from forehead to nape of neck like a kerchief, or horizontally around your head -- and pin everything to that, then the barbette or wimple that goes under your chin does not _have_ to be snug in order to stay on. You can easily leave enough space to stick two fingers between the barbette and your chin. I hate being choked by my clothing (ask me about necklines!), and I don't find this uncomfortable.

      Also, don't make whatever goes under your chin too wide. It should rest forward, just under the front of your chin, not back against your throat. If you use a flat strip as your barbette, you can give it a half-twist in the middle so that the part under your chin is narrow but the sides are still wider.

      The problem I have with veils is that after a while, my head gets too hot, especially in warm weather. I'm still searching for the "perfect" thing that will at least get the veil up off my head and leave some air space. So far I haven't gotten a "pie crust" band that really looks right.

      (Lady) Christian de Holacombe

      ____________________________________________________________
      0 Chris Laning
      | <claning@...>
      + Davis, California
      ____________________________________________________________
    • caitlin_oduibhir
      Well.. hat, singular, at the moment. I had posted links and whatnot for my hat on this message on this list: Message 1910 of 1941 Date: Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:14
      Message 2 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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        Well.. hat, singular, at the moment. I had posted links and whatnot
        for my hat on this message on this list:
        Message 1910 of 1941
        Date: Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:14 pm
        Subject: Just for the sake of sharing

        The rest of what I have made are.. you guessed it, veils. But they
        are late period Italian, which makes them even less exicting to look
        at, unless one figures in that nebulous veil they are purported to
        wear (which I am looking into seriously, I am backtracking source art
        that I have contacted the Kostumbibliotek in Berlin to look up the
        engraving in question *in the original print of the book* for me).
        Everything else I have made that is stuck to my head are Martedi
        Grasso Carnevale Masks in leather, and most recently, in papier
        mache. Oh, and those freaky horn hairdos popular in Italy at the
        time. I have hair taped before as well using artificial hair added
        in. I really must make a proper "hair ring" to lighten the load, it
        gave me a monsterous headache. I really should hold still long enough
        for a camera to catch me sometime.

        When I get around to making the Shinrone Gown, I'll make up
        my "cheesehead" hat to go with it. I wouldn't be surprised if someone
        gives me yet another pet name somewhere along the lines of "Fram" *L*

        Caitlin

        > Are there pictures of your hats? Are they posted to
        > this group? I would love to see them.
      • Renee Robinson
        Thank you so much for explaining this in a way I can finally follow!!! I m very challenged at following written directions. I need pictures and diagrams, and
        Message 3 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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          Thank you so much for explaining this in a way I can
          finally follow!!! I'm very challenged at following
          written directions. I need pictures and diagrams, and
          sometimes a person demonstrating.

          I did find a turban style in a pattern meant for
          African-American women, but it requires a lot of
          fabric and had a small piece of elastic. It gives the
          right look, but it's obviously not the period way.

          How wide should the fabric be, and how do you usually
          finish it?

          Renee

          --- danabren@... wrote:
          > Have you tried the "peasant" turban? Put your hair
          > in a low bun. Take a long rectangle of lightweight
          > fabric. With one of the short ends, fold slightly
          > under




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        • Wisby
          The fabric is packed for the turban, Ill be happy to send a report! Hopefully, AEsa ... Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
          Message 4 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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            The fabric is packed for the turban, Ill be happy to send a report!

            Hopefully,

            AEsa


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          • danabren@verizon.net
            ... It s usually a finished oval veil, the hems turned under twice as small as they can be. Width, it should be as wide as around your head plus about another
            Message 5 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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              > How wide should the fabric be, and how do you usually
              > finish it?
              >
              > Renee

              It's usually a finished oval veil, the hems turned under twice as small as they can be.

              Width, it should be as wide as around your head plus about another 6-8" for overlap, and long enough to be twisted up yet wrap around your head (how's that for virtual information!)

              Danabren

              ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
              Numquam gerras itero - itaque audi diligenter.
            • Cynthia Virtue
              The 1400s head wrap that I got from Historic Enterprises is 4-6 feet long and about 10 wide, made of large weave linen. (Well, fairly standard for a
              Message 6 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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                The 1400s head wrap that I got from Historic Enterprises is 4-6 feet
                long and about 10" wide, made of large weave linen. (Well, fairly
                standard for a teatowel, coarser than average muslin.) I tried making
                duplicates in muslin, and they didn't have enough body to stand out from
                my head (bulk it out a bit) nor enough friction to stay on well.

                There's also a basic kerchief wrap; take a large square, fold
                diagonally, tie on like a kerchief, tuck the free point of the fabric
                under the knot at the top of your neck (making a bag for any long hair
                thereby), and twist the two knot ends and tie them above your forehead.
                Tuck the final tiny tie ends down.

                The look is much like Danabren's description, but it's all symmetrical
                pulling forces, so I find it easier to put on.

                Any of these should be white or off-white, although there is some very
                scant documentation for very early red veils.

                --
                Cynthia Virtue and/or
                Cynthia du Pré Argent

                Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick.
              • Renee Robinson
                LOL. Reminds me of what my high school teacher used to tell us when we asked how long an essay should be: Like a lady s skirt-- long enough to cover the
                Message 7 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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                  LOL. Reminds me of what my high school teacher used
                  to tell us when we asked how long an essay should be:

                  "Like a lady's skirt-- long enough to cover the
                  subject, but short enough to be interesting."

                  Not sure how that kind of statement would fly in
                  today's schools, but it certainly made the point. :)

                  --- danabren@... wrote:
                  > Width, it should be as wide as around your head plus
                  > about another 6-8" for overlap, and long enough to
                  > be twisted up yet wrap around your head (how's that
                  > for virtual information!)
                  >
                  > Danabren
                  >
                  > ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                  > ^v^
                  > Numquam gerras itero - itaque audi diligenter.
                  >
                  >





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                • Rebecca Perry
                  I like the kerchief wrap too - I often use it as a base to contain my hair and cover the front of it, then add a wimple and veil. Sometimes I just wear the
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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                    I like the kerchief wrap too - I often use it as a base to contain my hair
                    and cover the front of it, then add a wimple and veil. Sometimes I just wear
                    the kerchief itself. I find it very comfortable and stable.

                    Savina
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Cynthia Virtue [mailto:cvirtue@...]
                    Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 2:25 PM
                    To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Veils and why I hate them/turban


                    The 1400s head wrap that I got from Historic Enterprises is 4-6 feet
                    long and about 10" wide, made of large weave linen. (Well, fairly
                    standard for a teatowel, coarser than average muslin.) I tried making
                    duplicates in muslin, and they didn't have enough body to stand out from
                    my head (bulk it out a bit) nor enough friction to stay on well.

                    There's also a basic kerchief wrap; take a large square, fold
                    diagonally, tie on like a kerchief, tuck the free point of the fabric
                    under the knot at the top of your neck (making a bag for any long hair
                    thereby), and twist the two knot ends and tie them above your forehead.
                    Tuck the final tiny tie ends down.

                    The look is much like Danabren's description, but it's all symmetrical
                    pulling forces, so I find it easier to put on.

                    Any of these should be white or off-white, although there is some very
                    scant documentation for very early red veils.

                    --
                    Cynthia Virtue and/or
                    Cynthia du Pré Argent

                    Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick.


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                  • Roana FitsStephen
                    My turban veil is 5.5-6 long and about 24 wide. I like to do a rolled hem on them. I have one that is made of cheap Wal-mart white cotton and second that
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 14, 2004
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                      My turban veil is 5.5-6' long and about 24" wide. I
                      like to do a rolled hem on them. I have one that is
                      made of cheap Wal-mart white cotton and second that is
                      made of white light weight cotton. I have some
                      handkerchief linen waiting to be cut out and made into
                      a chemise and veil butyou know that what if I make a
                      mistake syndrome.

                      I like the turban because it's not in my eyes, and it
                      doesn't feel like I have "something" on my head. Only
                      one drawback. My neck gets sunburn. On the plus side
                      my straw hat can be stacked on top.

                      Roana




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                    • Wisby
                      This past weekend we went to Spring Southern War Camp/A+S championships. Not only was everyone an absolute dear, but I did the kerchief thing. I must say... i
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 16, 2004
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                        This past weekend we went to Spring Southern War Camp/A+S championships.

                        Not only was everyone an absolute dear, but I did the kerchief thing. I must say... i was fine!
                        It kept the hair and sweat under control, and didnt drive me nutty. Kind of like mundane a do-rag for under a safety helmet.

                        Next try will be the turban, I got to watch some in action and now "get it" as to how they work.

                        Thanks so much for the encouragement, you all have been so helpful!

                        Another Hatted Person,
                        AEsa

                        Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@...> wrote:
                        The 1400s head wrap that I got from Historic Enterprises is 4-6 feet
                        long and about 10" wide, made of large weave linen. (Well, fairly
                        standard for a teatowel, coarser than average muslin.) I tried making
                        duplicates in muslin, and they didn't have enough body to stand out from
                        my head (bulk it out a bit) nor enough friction to stay on well.

                        There's also a basic kerchief wrap; take a large square, fold
                        diagonally, tie on like a kerchief, tuck the free point of the fabric
                        under the knot at the top of your neck (making a bag for any long hair
                        thereby), and twist the two knot ends and tie them above your forehead.
                        Tuck the final tiny tie ends down.

                        The look is much like Danabren's description, but it's all symmetrical
                        pulling forces, so I find it easier to put on.

                        Any of these should be white or off-white, although there is some very
                        scant documentation for very early red veils.

                        --
                        Cynthia Virtue and/or
                        Cynthia du Pr� Argent

                        Losing weight is like chipping away at boulder with a toothpick.


                        Community email addresses:
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                        Subscribe: SCA-Milliners-subscribe@onelist.com
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                      • danabren@verizon.net
                        ... You were there? Sorry I missed you... Danabren ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ Numquam gerras itero - itaque audi diligenter.
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 16, 2004
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                          > This past weekend we went to Spring Southern War Camp/A+S championships.
                          > Another Hatted Person,
                          > AEsa

                          You were there? Sorry I missed you...

                          Danabren

                          ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                          Numquam gerras itero - itaque audi diligenter.
                        • Zohra Rawling
                          On Sunday, May 16, 2004, at 21:50 US/Eastern, ... I wish we had known! That would of been nice to have met you! Although Brenna was
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 16, 2004
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                            On Sunday, May 16, 2004, at 21:50 US/Eastern, <danabren@...>
                            wrote:

                            >
                            >> This past weekend we went to Spring Southern War Camp/A+S
                            >> championships.
                            >> Another Hatted Person,
                            >> AEsa
                            >
                            > You were there? Sorry I missed you...
                            >
                            > Danabren


                            I wish we had known!

                            That would of been nice to have met you!

                            Although Brenna was crazy judging woman yesterday.
                            I was only mildly crazy judging woman.

                            ^_^


                            ysabella
                          • J. May
                            This past weekend I tried a new way to hold a veil on that was fantastic! I made two small braids on the top of my head. Using strong stick pins, I pinned
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 16, 2004
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                              This past weekend I tried a new way to hold a veil on that was fantastic!

                              I made two small braids on the top of my head. Using strong stick pins, I
                              pinned through the veil and the braids. I had an embroidered 45" wide veil
                              hanging to my butt with no discomfort. It was amazing. If you have really
                              slippery hair, just slather on the hair goo of your choosing and braid it
                              before it dries.

                              Samia


                              _____________________
                              I still have veil issues, including they don't stay on
                              even with Cynthia's instructions. I have very
                              slippery hair and it still starts sliding
                            • Wisby
                              Y all didnt miss me =p I displayed the chain collar, I was next to Kayleigh =) Resident *hatted* whiner, AEsa ... Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 16, 2004
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                                Y'all didnt miss me =p

                                I displayed the chain collar, I was next to Kayleigh =)

                                Resident *hatted* whiner,

                                AEsa


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                              • danabren@verizon.net
                                ... Hey - I judged your chainmail! But I didn t get to *meet* you.... Danabren ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ Numquam gerras itero -
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 17, 2004
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                                  > Y'all didnt miss me =p
                                  >
                                  > I displayed the chain collar, I was next to Kayleigh =)
                                  >
                                  > Resident *hatted* whiner,
                                  >
                                  > AEsa

                                  Hey - I judged your chainmail! But I didn't get to *meet* you....

                                  Danabren

                                  ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^ ^v^
                                  Numquam gerras itero - itaque audi diligenter.
                                • Zohra Rawling
                                  ... oh neat! That was lovely. So many great things on saturday! Ys
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 17, 2004
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                                    On Sunday, May 16, 2004, at 22:36 US/Eastern, Wisby wrote:

                                    >
                                    > Y'all didnt miss me =p
                                    >
                                    > I displayed the chain collar, I was next to Kayleigh =)
                                    >
                                    > Resident *hatted* whiner,
                                    >
                                    > AEsa
                                    >


                                    oh neat!

                                    That was lovely.


                                    So many great things on saturday!


                                    Ys
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