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Italian 1300's and 1400's

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  • enjzerbunny
    What kind of headress did the Italian ladies wear? I ve got my court dress done but need to know how to cover my head and how to put my hair? Can anyone help
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 7, 2004
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      What kind of headress did the Italian ladies wear? I've got my court
      dress done but need to know how to cover my head and how to put my
      hair? Can anyone help all so do you have pattren or pics to see what
      I need to make. I can do the sewing. Thanks Novella (SCA name)
    • danabren@verizon.net
      What period or century are you doing? Danabren
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 8, 2004
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        What period or century are you doing?

        Danabren

        > From: "enjzerbunny" <enjzerbunny@...>
        > Date: 2004/01/07 Wed PM 11:13:49 CST
        > To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Italian 1300's and 1400's
        >
        > What kind of headress did the Italian ladies wear? I've got my court
        > dress done but need to know how to cover my head and how to put my
        > hair? Can anyone help all so do you have pattren or pics to see what
        > I need to make. I can do the sewing. Thanks Novella (SCA name)
      • Dianne & Greg Stucki
        ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Italian 1300 s and
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 8, 2004
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <danabren@...>
          To: <SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:42 AM
          Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Italian 1300's and 1400's


          > What period or century are you doing?
          >
          > Danabren

          She mentioned in the subject line that she is looking for 14-15th century.

          I know Bella does late period, but she has about a gazillion portraits on
          her site, and tons of links. it can't hurt to check here:
          http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/

          good luck!

          Laurensa
        • danabren@verizon.net
          ... Right. Duh me. *sigh* Danabren
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 8, 2004
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            > She mentioned in the subject line that she is looking for 14-15th century.
            > Laurensa

            Right. Duh me.

            *sigh*
            Danabren
          • Teena Paradise
            There are several styles including hair taping which is (in an overly simplified description) sewing braided or unbraided hair to your head with a ribbon,
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 8, 2004
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              There are several styles including hair taping which is (in an overly simplified description) sewing braided or unbraided hair to your head with a ribbon, small caplets attached to a braid case, pulling your hair back into a bun with small ringlets at the sides (with or without a black ribbon/cord around your head or a "coif" over the bun), a reta which is a sort of knotted and pearled cord. Look at the images on these pages and get some inspiration. Then ask about some specific ones and we can give guidance in that direction. :)

              http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/earlyflor/portfolio.html

              The reta portrait... which by the way is a bugger to make (I am currently on the 3rd try), but looks very cool is here:
              http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman66.html

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: enjzerbunny
              To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 12:13 AM
              Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Italian 1300's and 1400's


              What kind of headress did the Italian ladies wear? I've got my court
              dress done but need to know how to cover my head and how to put my
              hair? Can anyone help all so do you have pattren or pics to see what
              I need to make. I can do the sewing. Thanks Novella (SCA name)



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Cynthia Virtue
              ... I ve always liked that look. What are the tricky bits that make it difficult? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Such virtue hath my
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 8, 2004
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                Teena Paradise wrote:

                > The reta portrait... which by the way is a bugger to make (I am currently on the 3rd try), but looks very cool is here:
                > http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman66.html

                I've always liked that look. What are the tricky bits that make it
                difficult?

                --
                Cynthia Virtue and/or
                Cynthia du Pré Argent

                "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
              • Teena Paradise
                Well I decided that in order for it to retain it s shape there needed to be some wire around the edge. I saw someone in our kingdom wearing one made without
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 8, 2004
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                  Well I decided that in order for it to retain it's shape there needed to be some wire around the edge. I saw someone in our kingdom wearing one made without wire and it looked too floppy. My first incarnation was made of ribbon being knotted. Ribbon was way to slick and didn't look right. Getting the knots perfect was hard too. I thought very thin strips of leather would look right, give a good "structure", but I couldn't find what I wanted. I decided in the end to use black soutache braid only because I could get big spools of it cheaply and figured it would be good for working out the details (i.e. I could always make another out of something else later). The weight was good too. Knotting was still a problem though because it was impossible for me to get all of the squares exactly the same... so I gave up on knotting. This was probably my own flaws and inexperience rather than a problem with doing that process. What I decided to do... and thought would look gorgeous.... was to just sew the cords at the intersections and then put small garnets there. The second incarnation had many of the middle front to back strands already attached to the frame. Bad idea. Third and current incarnation has me doing it flat on top of a big grid on posterboard to get the squares perfect. I have done the entire front to back part in the middle. I am now ready to start making the strings at the edges become the sides of the cap. Once, I have that relatively straight, I am going to attach it to the wire frame which will then be covered in pearls and more garnets. One thing I haven't found is the ornaments that attach to the band around the head.

                  This is one of those projects that gets to me after a while. So I work on it... set it aside for a while... then work on it again. I really should just hunker down and finish it because I know it is going to look so pretty when it is done.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Cynthia Virtue
                  To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 8:57 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Italian 1300's and 1400's


                  Teena Paradise wrote:

                  > The reta portrait... which by the way is a bugger to make (I am currently on the 3rd try), but looks very cool is here:
                  > http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman66.html

                  I've always liked that look. What are the tricky bits that make it
                  difficult?

                  --
                  Cynthia Virtue and/or
                  Cynthia du Pré Argent


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kat
                  Oh..... that depends on what area of Italy and exactly what time.. things changed do you have a pic of the garb you can show us... Kat Innilgard
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 9, 2004
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                    Oh.....
                    that depends on what area of Italy and exactly what time.. things changed
                    do you have a pic of the garb you can show us...
                    Kat
                    Innilgard
                    > What kind of headress did the Italian ladies wear? I've got my court
                    > dress done but need to know how to cover my head and how to put my
                    > hair? Can anyone help all so do you have pattren or pics to see what
                  • Lori Leppink
                    I have been planning on doing a reta, but I haven t gotten started yet. For the ornaments that attach to the band around the head I got some vintage clip
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 19, 2004
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                      I have been planning on doing a reta, but I haven't gotten started
                      yet. For the ornaments that attach to the band around the head I got
                      some vintage clip earrings that look like period jewelry, and put
                      some pearl drops on them, and was going to clip them to the band and
                      the reta, and maybe into my hair, too, to help hold it on.

                      What do you think would be the best material to make it out of? I
                      was thinking of using black or gold middy braid from Joanne's. Not
                      exactly period, but it looks like it would be easy to work with.

                      Giovanna



                      --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Teena Paradise"
                      <bkessinger@u...> wrote:
                      > Well I decided that in order for it to retain it's shape there
                      needed to be some wire around the edge. I saw someone in our kingdom
                      wearing one made without wire and it looked too floppy. My first
                      incarnation was made of ribbon being knotted. Ribbon was way to slick
                      and didn't look right. Getting the knots perfect was hard too. I
                      thought very thin strips of leather would look right, give a
                      good "structure", but I couldn't find what I wanted. I decided in the
                      end to use black soutache braid only because I could get big spools
                      of it cheaply and figured it would be good for working out the
                      details (i.e. I could always make another out of something else
                      later). The weight was good too. Knotting was still a problem though
                      because it was impossible for me to get all of the squares exactly
                      the same... so I gave up on knotting. This was probably my own flaws
                      and inexperience rather than a problem with doing that process. What
                      I decided to do... and thought would look gorgeous.... was to just
                      sew the cords at the intersections and then put small garnets there.
                      The second incarnation had many of the middle front to back strands
                      already attached to the frame. Bad idea. Third and current
                      incarnation has me doing it flat on top of a big grid on posterboard
                      to get the squares perfect. I have done the entire front to back part
                      in the middle. I am now ready to start making the strings at the
                      edges become the sides of the cap. Once, I have that relatively
                      straight, I am going to attach it to the wire frame which will then
                      be covered in pearls and more garnets. One thing I haven't found is
                      the ornaments that attach to the band around the head.
                      >
                      > This is one of those projects that gets to me after a while. So I
                      work on it... set it aside for a while... then work on it again. I
                      really should just hunker down and finish it because I know it is
                      going to look so pretty when it is done.
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Cynthia Virtue
                      > To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 8:57 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Milliners] Italian 1300's and 1400's
                      >
                      >
                      > Teena Paradise wrote:
                      >
                      > > The reta portrait... which by the way is a bugger to make (I am
                      currently on the 3rd try), but looks very cool is here:
                      > > http://www.geocities.com/mizzmelisende/woman66.html
                      >
                      > I've always liked that look. What are the tricky bits that make
                      it
                      > difficult?
                      >
                      > --
                      > Cynthia Virtue and/or
                      > Cynthia du Pré Argent
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Cynthia Virtue
                      ... What is middy braid? -- Cynthia Virtue and/or Cynthia du Pré Argent Such virtue hath my pen.... -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81 I knew this wasn t _my_
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 19, 2004
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                        Lori Leppink wrote:
                        > What do you think would be the best material to make it out of? I
                        > was thinking of using black or gold middy braid from Joanne's. Not
                        > exactly period, but it looks like it would be easy to work with.

                        What is "middy braid?"


                        --
                        Cynthia Virtue and/or
                        Cynthia du Pré Argent

                        "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                        "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
                      • Teena Paradise
                        Depends on whether you plan on knotting the intersections or sewing them. The black soutache isn t period, but it looks right and feels right to me weight
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 20, 2004
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                          Depends on whether you plan on knotting the intersections or sewing them. The black soutache isn't period, but it looks right and feels right to me weight wise. But I am sewing the intersections.... I couldn't get the knotting consistent.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Lori Leppink
                          To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:39 PM
                          Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: Italian 1300's and 1400's


                          I have been planning on doing a reta, but I haven't gotten started
                          yet. For the ornaments that attach to the band around the head I got
                          some vintage clip earrings that look like period jewelry, and put
                          some pearl drops on them, and was going to clip them to the band and
                          the reta, and maybe into my hair, too, to help hold it on.

                          What do you think would be the best material to make it out of? I
                          was thinking of using black or gold middy braid from Joanne's. Not
                          exactly period, but it looks like it would be easy to work with.

                          Giovanna




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Lori Leppink
                          Sorry I took so long to get back to you! Middy braid is a flat cotton decorative ribbon, a little more than 1/8 in wide (I don t have a ruler here, so I can t
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 27, 2004
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                            Sorry I took so long to get back to you!

                            Middy braid is a flat cotton decorative ribbon, a little more than
                            1/8 in wide (I don't have a ruler here, so I can't tell the exact
                            measurement), that is sold in packages at Joannes and other fabric
                            stores. It is cheap, and seems like it would be easy to work with,
                            and it is wide enough to sew pearls and beads onto easily. It seems
                            like a flat ribbon would work better than a round one.

                            Giovanna




                            --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, Cynthia Virtue <cvirtue@t...>
                            wrote:
                            > Lori Leppink wrote:
                            > > What do you think would be the best material to make it out of?
                            I
                            > > was thinking of using black or gold middy braid from Joanne's.
                            Not
                            > > exactly period, but it looks like it would be easy to work with.
                            >
                            > What is "middy braid?"
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Cynthia Virtue and/or
                            > Cynthia du Pré Argent
                            >
                            > "Such virtue hath my pen...." -Shakespeare, Sonnet 81
                            > "I knew this wasn't _my_ pen!" --Cynthia V.
                          • Lori Leppink
                            I am planning on taking a class in Knotted Hairnets, so I hope to learn something I can apply to a reta. Middy braid would work good for sewing the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jan 27, 2004
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                              I am planning on taking a class in Knotted Hairnets, so I hope to
                              learn something I can apply to a reta. Middy braid would work good
                              for sewing the intersections, too, and then I could sew a bead or
                              pearl to them. A sewn intersection would be easier to sew something
                              onto. I am still in the thinking about how to do it stage, but I
                              hope the class will give me some ideas.

                              Giovanna




                              --- In SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com, "Teena Paradise"
                              <bkessinger@u...> wrote:
                              > Depends on whether you plan on knotting the intersections or sewing
                              them. The black soutache isn't period, but it looks right and feels
                              right to me weight wise. But I am sewing the intersections.... I
                              couldn't get the knotting consistent.
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Lori Leppink
                              > To: SCA-Milliners@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 7:39 PM
                              > Subject: [SCA-Milliners] Re: Italian 1300's and 1400's
                              >
                              >
                              > I have been planning on doing a reta, but I haven't gotten started
                              > yet. For the ornaments that attach to the band around the head I
                              got
                              > some vintage clip earrings that look like period jewelry, and put
                              > some pearl drops on them, and was going to clip them to the band
                              and
                              > the reta, and maybe into my hair, too, to help hold it on.
                              >
                              > What do you think would be the best material to make it out of? I
                              > was thinking of using black or gold middy braid from Joanne's. Not
                              > exactly period, but it looks like it would be easy to work with.
                              >
                              > Giovanna
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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