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Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

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  • Charlie Farrow
    If you don t have a pantry full of made-up remedies you will need to improvise. You need to clean the wound with a sterile antibacterial substance. Vinegar
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      If you don't have a pantry full of made-up remedies you will need to improvise.

      You need to clean the wound with a sterile antibacterial substance. Vinegar solution infused with dried comfrey springs to mind to clean and aid healing of broken bones or sprains. Allow to dry. Then close the lesion with a salve - modern poultry farmers use vaseline! A simple calendula salve should do the trick.

      In a double boiler combine a measure vegetable oil with as much dried calendula flower as will fit into the oil, heat for an hour and a half let cool for a while, and strain through muslin.

      Add 1 part beeswax (by weight) to 8 parts herbal oil (by volume); that's 100 g beeswax to 8 dl oil.


      Charlie



      On 23 February 2011 18:27, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
       

      Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
      Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

      Ameline



      On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
       

      Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
      nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
      VETERINARIAN.

      My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
      turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
      attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
      a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
      (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
      could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
      metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
      NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
      and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
      perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

      But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
      for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
      prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
      was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
      better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
      them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
      7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
      are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
      people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
      applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
      tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
      dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

      rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
      birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

      But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
      dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
      Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
      and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
      crippling.

      If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
      please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
      her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
      her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
      adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

      What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
      remaining life from being filled with pain?

      Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
      animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

      Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
      even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
      valuable bird?

      --
      Biya




      --
      www.crookedwall.org
      www.bthumbstudios.com



      --
      Charlie Farrow

    • Charlie Farrow
      Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure s definitive article reproduced by
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure's definitive article reproduced by Henriette Kress.
        http://www.henriettesherbal.com/faqs/medi-5-1-side-effects.html/


        On 23 February 2011 19:57, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
         

        There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.



        On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
         

        There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
        Thanks!
        Cempestra O'Breoniann
         
        One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



        From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

         

        Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
        Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

        Ameline

        On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
         

        Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
        nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
        VETERINARIAN.

        My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
        turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
        attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
        a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
        (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
        could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
        metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
        NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
        and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
        perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

        But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
        for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
        prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
        was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
        better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
        them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
        7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
        are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
        people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
        applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
        tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
        dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

        rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
        birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

        But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
        dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
        Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
        and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
        crippling.

        If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
        please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
        her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
        her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
        adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

        What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
        remaining life from being filled with pain?

        Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
        animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

        Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
        even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
        valuable bird?

        --
        Biya







        --
        www.crookedwall.org
        www.bthumbstudios.com



        --
        Charlie Farrow

      • Jeffrey Pottle
        An infusion of calendula is excellent as a topical antiseptic. I have a cat who was scratched in the eye by another cat. We used an infusion of calendula and
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 24, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          An infusion of calendula is excellent as a topical antiseptic. I have a cat who was scratched in the eye by another cat. We used an infusion of calendula and applied it with an eye dropper and it cleared right up.

          I don't know about birds, but a little Rescue Remedy in their water calmed my cats down. I hope your bird feels better soon!


          --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:

          > From: Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...>
          > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?
          > To: "SCA-Herbalist" <SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com>
          > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 6:12 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a
          > fight...the kind of
          >
          > nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon
          > at the
          >
          > VETERINARIAN.
          >
          >
          >
          > My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should
          > NOT get a
          >
          > turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very
          > aggressively
          >
          > attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned
          > out to be
          >
          > a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of
          > the bone
          >
          > (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went
          > down and she
          >
          > could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor
          > prescribed
          >
          > metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very
          > very new
          >
          > NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps
          > with both pain
          >
          > and swelling. Even with medication, she's having
          > trouble grasping her
          >
          > perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.
          >
          >
          >
          > But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human
          > societies
          >
          > for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the
          > most
          >
          > prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick
          > II's cockatoo
          >
          > was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably
          > received
          >
          > better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more
          > than most of
          >
          > them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since
          > at least the
          >
          > 7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still
          > difficult--they really
          >
          > are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially!
          > Most
          >
          > people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro
          > bird
          >
          > applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting
          > from temper
          >
          > tantrums when they don't get what they want--which
          > could just be "you
          >
          > dared pay attention to something besides ME just
          > now!"
          >
          >
          >
          > rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are
          > NOT easy
          >
          > birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).
          >
          >
          >
          > But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of
          > first,
          >
          > dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot
          > imagine
          >
          > Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in
          > aviculture!)
          >
          > and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal
          > nor
          >
          > crippling.
          >
          >
          >
          > If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your
          > persona's year,
          >
          > please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg
          > injuries to keep
          >
          > her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor
          > break in
          >
          > her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST
          > ENTERING
          >
          > adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!
          >
          >
          >
          > What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of
          > her
          >
          > remaining life from being filled with pain?
          >
          >
          >
          > Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context!
          > Too many
          >
          > animals were too valuable for too many reasons!
          >
          >
          >
          > Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or
          > would they,
          >
          > even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody
          > wound on a
          >
          > valuable bird?
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          > Biya
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • psn3748@comcast.net
          i had taken a class 20 + yrs from Dr. James Duke - one of the reknown herbalists of our mundane time - w hen i asked him about some of the information i had be
          Message 4 of 15 , Aug 5, 2011
          • 0 Attachment

            i had taken a class 20+ yrs from Dr. James Duke - one of the reknown herbalists of our mundane time - when i asked him about some of the information i had been reading regarding comfrey and it's carcinogenic levels - his response to me - "comfrey taken internally has only half the carcinogens that the mustard you put on your hotdog does - the thing to remember - comfrey doesn't have a lobby in washington".   since then i've used comfrey for numrous things both externally and internally with no problems or issues.

             

            Ros

             


             


            From: "Charlie Farrow" <charlie.farrow@...>
            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:00:26 PM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

             

            Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure's definitive article reproduced by Henriette Kress.
            http://www.henriettesherbal.com/faqs/medi-5-1-side-effects.html/


            On 23 February 2011 19:57, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
             

            There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.



            On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
             

            There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
            Thanks!
            Cempestra O'Breoniann
             
            One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



            From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

             

            Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
            Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

            Ameline

            On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
             

            Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
            nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
            VETERINARIAN.

            My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
            turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
            attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
            a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
            (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
            could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
            metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
            NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
            and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
            perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

            But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
            for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
            prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
            was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
            better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
            them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
            7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
            are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
            people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
            applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
            tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
            dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

            rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
            birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

            But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
            dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
            Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
            and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
            crippling.

            If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
            please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
            her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
            her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
            adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

            What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
            remaining life from being filled with pain?

            Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
            animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

            Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
            even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
            valuable bird?

            --
            Biya







            --
            www.crookedwall.org
            www.bthumbstudios.com



            --
            Charlie Farrow

          • Rhonda Heyns
            I have one of Dr. Duke s books. Lucky you getting to learn directly from him! To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com From: psn3748@comcast.net Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011
            Message 5 of 15 , Aug 7, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              I have one of Dr. Duke's books. Lucky you getting to learn directly from him!




              To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
              From: psn3748@...
              Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 21:03:59 +0000
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

               

              i had taken a class 20+ yrs from Dr. James Duke - one of the reknown herbalists of our mundane time - when i asked him about some of the information i had been reading regarding comfrey and it's carcinogenic levels - his response to me - "comfrey taken internally has only half the carcinogens that the mustard you put on your hotdog does - the thing to remember - comfrey doesn't have a lobby in washington".   since then i've used comfrey for numrous things both externally and internally with no problems or issues.
               
              Ros
               

               



              From: "Charlie Farrow" <charlie.farrow@...>
              To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:00:26 PM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

               
              Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure's definitive article reproduced by Henriette Kress.
              http://www.henriettesherbal.com/faqs/medi-5-1-side-effects.html/



              On 23 February 2011 19:57, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
               
              There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.


              On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
               

              There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
              Thanks!
              Cempestra O'Breoniann
               
              One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



              From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
              To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

               
              Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
              Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

              Ameline


              On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
               
              Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
              nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
              VETERINARIAN.

              My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
              turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
              attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
              a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
              (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
              could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
              metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
              NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
              and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
              perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

              But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
              for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
              prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
              was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
              better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
              them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
              7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
              are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
              people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
              applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
              tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
              dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

              rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
              birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

              But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
              dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
              Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
              and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
              crippling.

              If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
              please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
              her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
              her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
              adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

              What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
              remaining life from being filled with pain?

              Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
              animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

              Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
              even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
              valuable bird?

              --
              Biya







              --
              www.crookedwall.org
              www.bthumbstudios.com



              --
              Charlie Farrow



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