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RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

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  • jack hollandbeck
    Thank you again. I think I remember that it was mentioned by Galen of Pergumum. More research is called for I think. It is amazing how a simple and short
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 31, 2011
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      Thank you again. I think I remember that it was mentioned by Galen of Pergumum. More research is called for I think. It is amazing how a simple and short change in geography can change a plant's characteristics. That puts an even higher importance on local expertise. Today it seems to me that there is (or maybe has been for a long time) an attempt to hybridize the planet in an attempt to spread beneficial plants, and keep their best characteristics. It just makes me wonder about diversity. Well, an idiot speaks and I don't get much time to do that anymore. Mom's care keeps me too much in my head. Also, I wonder just how much medicinal plant lore was lost in the witch hunts.....and now society is trying to reclaim that lost knowledge. Time to go. Thanks again.
      Jack


      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      From: tolkienscholar@...
      Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:40:39 -0700
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



      One need remember that plants had very different names in different places. Even the genus species of plants was different between areas and many of the genus species and plants we know now were known by different names. The difference could even be extreme from city to city or two different towns within a 30 mile radius. (This makes research a bit of a pain). Valerian has been used as a mild sedative as early as the 7th c. and is mentioned in Bald's Leecebook; however, Valerian was also known as Cetewall. There are two completely different plants known as cetewall: one is a ginger type plant and one is Valerian. 
      The Oxford English Dictionary  cites that setwall, Md. sedewale, is the name given to zedoary, Curcuma zedoaria, a ginger type of plant that is associated with turmeric, and Valeriana pyrenaicia  The mediaeval community knew Valeriana pyrenaicia as Ebullus minor; the modern date genus species names Ebullus minor the name of Valeriana officintalis . Some old English writers, named the herb valerian, setwall (or cetewall). The herb, was, and still is, generally accessible to many .  Even today, one can find Valerian growing in old ruins and buildings in England. Valerian is a strong sedative and works upon the higher nerve centers. It is used internally and usually prescribed as a tea to relieve anxiety and, incidentally, as an anti-convulsion medicine.  The Lacnunga manuscript also lists valerian as an ingredient as a salve. Salves, used against infection are topically applied. “Ðis is seo grene seaf, betonia, rude, lufestice, finel, salue, aeðelferðinewyrt,……ualeriane, clate, medewyert, dweorgedwolsan." {This green (ointment) is betony scab, lovage plant, fennel, (dark noble), king-herb (basil), valerian, burdock,mead-wort (mead with herbs in it),can use for [against] dwarves, mists.}

      As an herb with the medicinal uses that we center upon, whilst Valerian was used internally, because it also had external benefits, the drug also, in some cases, carried the folk name of all-heal. All-heal(s) were popular names given to drugs that had more then one use and more then one important benefit. There are many many different plants that have the name of All-heal and they could be different again from city to city or town to town...
      The biggest problem that I find with Valerian is its current over-use or misuse. For example, my daughter is allergic to Valerian and I have found that many people have adverse reactions to Valerian depending upon doses or just plain unable to digest. Valium is a modern day equivalent of the plant and should be treated as a medication and with caution.
      Citations and References:
      Anderson, Frank J. An Illustrated History of the Herbals. New York: Colombia University Press. 1977.
      Bodin, Gösta. Agnus Castus: A Middle English Herbal.  ed Liljegren, S. B. Uppsala: Almqvist and Wiksells Boktryckeri. 1950.
      Bonser, Wilfrid. The Medical Background of Anglo-Saxon England: A Study in History, Psychology, and Folklore. London: The Wellcome Historical Medical Library. 1963.
      Cameron, M.L. Anglo-Saxon Medicine. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1993.
      Pollington, Stephen. Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore, and Healing. Norfolk, England: Anglo-Saxon Books. 2000/2003.
      Porta, John Baptista. Natural Magick. ed. Price, Derek. New York: Basic Books. (1558). 1957.

      Cheers,
      Cemper



       
      One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


      From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
      To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:55 AM
      Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

       
      Thanks, Carowyn. Very cool! and right down my alley. I had not thought that ancient doctors had pre-formed compounds in easy to use and dispense packets or tablets. But it makes sense. 
      Jack
      ps now does anybody know long valerian root was used as a mild sedative?

      > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > From: silveroak@...
      > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:57:20 -0400
      > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!
      >
      >
      >
      > What a cool article!
      >
      > http://www.history.com/news/2011/07/14/ancient-medicines-from-shipwreck-s
      > hed-light-on-life-in-antiquity/
      >
      > -Carowyn
      > ____________________________________________________________
      > Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
      > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
      > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e34c4e5be697304c45st04duc
      >
      >
      >
      ------------------------------------
      >
      > -------------------------------------------------------------
      > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
      > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
      > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
      >
      > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
      > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
      > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]Yahoo! Groups Links
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    • Aly/Cemper
      Yes, Galen also mentions its uses. Valerian was also one of the main ingredients in one of the recipes I have for Dwale which was an anesthesia. Of course, if
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 31, 2011
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        Yes, Galen also mentions its uses. Valerian was also one of the main ingredients in one of the recipes I have for Dwale which was an anesthesia. Of course, if you even survied drinking the Dwale which called for 2 flagons of wine, Valerian, hops and Datura (you had to drink the entire thing before surgery), then Valerian or a reaction to it was the least of your worries. :)
         
        One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


        From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
        To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:03 AM
        Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

         
        Thank you again. I think I remember that it was mentioned by Galen of Pergumum. More research is called for I think. It is amazing how a simple and short change in geography can change a plant's characteristics. That puts an even higher importance on local expertise. Today it seems to me that there is (or maybe has been for a long time) an attempt to hybridize the planet in an attempt to spread beneficial plants, and keep their best characteristics. It just makes me wonder about diversity. Well, an idiot speaks and I don't get much time to do that anymore. Mom's care keeps me too much in my head. Also, I wonder just how much medicinal plant lore was lost in the witch hunts.....and now society is trying to reclaim that lost knowledge. Time to go. Thanks again.
        Jack


        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        From: tolkienscholar@...
        Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:40:39 -0700
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



        One need remember that plants had very different names in different places. Even the genus species of plants was different between areas and many of the genus species and plants we know now were known by different names. The difference could even be extreme from city to city or two different towns within a 30 mile radius. (This makes research a bit of a pain). Valerian has been used as a mild sedative as early as the 7th c. and is mentioned in Bald's Leecebook; however, Valerian was also known as Cetewall. There are two completely different plants known as cetewall: one is a ginger type plant and one is Valerian. 
        The Oxford English Dictionary  cites that setwall, Md. sedewale, is the name given to zedoary, Curcuma zedoaria, a ginger type of plant that is associated with turmeric, and Valeriana pyrenaicia  The mediaeval community knew Valeriana pyrenaicia as Ebullus minor; the modern date genus species names Ebullus minor the name of Valeriana officintalis . Some old English writers, named the herb valerian, setwall (or cetewall). The herb, was, and still is, generally accessible to many .  Even today, one can find Valerian growing in old ruins and buildings in England. Valerian is a strong sedative and works upon the higher nerve centers. It is used internally and usually prescribed as a tea to relieve anxiety and, incidentally, as an anti-convulsion medicine.  The Lacnunga manuscript also lists valerian as an ingredient as a salve. Salves, used against infection are topically applied. “Ðis is seo grene seaf, betonia, rude, lufestice, finel, salue, aeðelferðinewyrt,……ualeriane, clate, medewyert, dweorgedwolsan." {This green (ointment) is betony scab, lovage plant, fennel, (dark noble), king-herb (basil), valerian, burdock,mead-wort (mead with herbs in it),can use for [against] dwarves, mists.}

        As an herb with the medicinal uses that we center upon, whilst Valerian was used internally, because it also had external benefits, the drug also, in some cases, carried the folk name of all-heal. All-heal(s) were popular names given to drugs that had more then one use and more then one important benefit. There are many many different plants that have the name of All-heal and they could be different again from city to city or town to town...
        The biggest problem that I find with Valerian is its current over-use or misuse. For example, my daughter is allergic to Valerian and I have found that many people have adverse reactions to Valerian depending upon doses or just plain unable to digest. Valium is a modern day equivalent of the plant and should be treated as a medication and with caution.
        Citations and References:
        Anderson, Frank J. An Illustrated History of the Herbals. New York: Colombia University Press. 1977.
        Bodin, Gösta. Agnus Castus: A Middle English Herbal.  ed Liljegren, S. B. Uppsala: Almqvist and Wiksells Boktryckeri. 1950.
        Bonser, Wilfrid. The Medical Background of Anglo-Saxon England: A Study in History, Psychology, and Folklore. London: The Wellcome Historical Medical Library. 1963.
        Cameron, M.L. Anglo-Saxon Medicine. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1993.
        Pollington, Stephen. Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore, and Healing. Norfolk, England: Anglo-Saxon Books. 2000/2003.
        Porta, John Baptista. Natural Magick. ed. Price, Derek. New York: Basic Books. (1558). 1957.

        Cheers,
        Cemper



         
        One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


        From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
        To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:55 AM
        Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

         
        Thanks, Carowyn. Very cool! and right down my alley. I had not thought that ancient doctors had pre-formed compounds in easy to use and dispense packets or tablets. But it makes sense. 
        Jack
        ps now does anybody know long valerian root was used as a mild sedative?

        > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        > From: silveroak@...
        > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:57:20 -0400
        > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!
        >
        >
        >
        > What a cool article!
        >
        > http://www.history.com/news/2011/07/14/ancient-medicines-from-shipwreck-s
        > hed-light-on-life-in-antiquity/
        >
        > -Carowyn
        > ____________________________________________________________
        > Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
        > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
        > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e34c4e5be697304c45st04duc
        >
        >
        >
        ------------------------------------
        >
        > -------------------------------------------------------------
        > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
        > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
        > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
        >
        > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
        > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
        > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Herbalist/
        >
        > <*> Your email settings:
        > Individual Email | Traditional
        >
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        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Herbalist/join
        > (Yahoo! ID
        required)
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        >
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        > SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
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        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >






      • Carowyn Silveroak
        Another point to ponder: Growing up, we bought lots of produce locally. Except for one thing - carrots. *Everyone* knew that carrots from Lancaster County,
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 31, 2011
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          Another point to ponder:
           
          Growing up, we bought lots of produce locally.  Except for one thing - carrots.  *Everyone* knew that carrots from Lancaster County, one county south, were sweeter and better than the local ones.  I don't know why (soil, I'm assuming, or some mineral thereof), but it was a Known thing.
           
          Makes me wonder what other Known things there were!  Or are, even today!   ;-)
           
          -"it's fun talking to the locals" Carowyn
           
           


          ____________________________________________________________
          57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
          Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
          ConsumerLifestyles.org
        • jack hollandbeck
          TWO FLAGONS!? The anesthetic was the cure for the dead feel no pain. lol It sounds like an old western where the doc got the patient drunk before removing the
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 1, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            TWO FLAGONS!? The anesthetic was the cure for the dead feel no pain. lol It sounds like an old western where the doc got the patient drunk before removing the arrow head.
            Jack


            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            From: tolkienscholar@...
            Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:43:22 -0700
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



            Yes, Galen also mentions its uses. Valerian was also one of the main ingredients in one of the recipes I have for Dwale which was an anesthesia. Of course, if you even survied drinking the Dwale which called for 2 flagons of wine, Valerian, hops and Datura (you had to drink the entire thing before surgery), then Valerian or a reaction to it was the least of your worries. :)
             
            One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


            From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
            To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:03 AM
            Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

             
            Thank you again. I think I remember that it was mentioned by Galen of Pergumum. More research is called for I think. It is amazing how a simple and short change in geography can change a plant's characteristics. That puts an even higher importance on local expertise. Today it seems to me that there is (or maybe has been for a long time) an attempt to hybridize the planet in an attempt to spread beneficial plants, and keep their best characteristics. It just makes me wonder about diversity. Well, an idiot speaks and I don't get much time to do that anymore. Mom's care keeps me too much in my head. Also, I wonder just how much medicinal plant lore was lost in the witch hunts.....and now society is trying to reclaim that lost knowledge. Time to go. Thanks again.
            Jack


            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            From: tolkienscholar@...
            Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:40:39 -0700
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



            One need remember that plants had very different names in different places. Even the genus species of plants was different between areas and many of the genus species and plants we know now were known by different names. The difference could even be extreme from city to city or two different towns within a 30 mile radius. (This makes research a bit of a pain). Valerian has been used as a mild sedative as early as the 7th c. and is mentioned in Bald's Leecebook; however, Valerian was also known as Cetewall. There are two completely different plants known as cetewall: one is a ginger type plant and one is Valerian. 
            The Oxford English Dictionary  cites that setwall, Md. sedewale, is the name given to zedoary, Curcuma zedoaria, a ginger type of plant that is associated with turmeric, and Valeriana pyrenaicia  The mediaeval community knew Valeriana pyrenaicia as Ebullus minor; the modern date genus species names Ebullus minor the name of Valeriana officintalis . Some old English writers, named the herb valerian, setwall (or cetewall). The herb, was, and still is, generally accessible to many .  Even today, one can find Valerian growing in old ruins and buildings in England. Valerian is a strong sedative and works upon the higher nerve centers. It is used internally and usually prescribed as a tea to relieve anxiety and, incidentally, as an anti-convulsion medicine.  The Lacnunga manuscript also lists valerian as an ingredient as a salve. Salves, used against infection are topically applied. “Ðis is seo grene seaf, betonia, rude, lufestice, finel, salue, aeðelferðinewyrt,……ualeriane, clate, medewyert, dweorgedwolsan." {This green (ointment) is betony scab, lovage plant, fennel, (dark noble), king-herb (basil), valerian, burdock,mead-wort (mead with herbs in it),can use for [against] dwarves, mists.}

            As an herb with the medicinal uses that we center upon, whilst Valerian was used internally, because it also had external benefits, the drug also, in some cases, carried the folk name of all-heal. All-heal(s) were popular names given to drugs that had more then one use and more then one important benefit. There are many many different plants that have the name of All-heal and they could be different again from city to city or town to town...
            The biggest problem that I find with Valerian is its current over-use or misuse. For example, my daughter is allergic to Valerian and I have found that many people have adverse reactions to Valerian depending upon doses or just plain unable to digest. Valium is a modern day equivalent of the plant and should be treated as a medication and with caution.
            Citations and References:
            Anderson, Frank J. An Illustrated History of the Herbals. New York: Colombia University Press. 1977.
            Bodin, Gösta. Agnus Castus: A Middle English Herbal.  ed Liljegren, S. B. Uppsala: Almqvist and Wiksells Boktryckeri. 1950.
            Bonser, Wilfrid. The Medical Background of Anglo-Saxon England: A Study in History, Psychology, and Folklore. London: The Wellcome Historical Medical Library. 1963.
            Cameron, M.L. Anglo-Saxon Medicine. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1993.
            Pollington, Stephen. Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore, and Healing. Norfolk, England: Anglo-Saxon Books. 2000/2003.
            Porta, John Baptista. Natural Magick. ed. Price, Derek. New York: Basic Books. (1558). 1957.

            Cheers,
            Cemper



             
            One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


            From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
            To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:55 AM
            Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

             
            Thanks, Carowyn. Very cool! and right down my alley. I had not thought that ancient doctors had pre-formed compounds in easy to use and dispense packets or tablets. But it makes sense. 
            Jack
            ps now does anybody know long valerian root was used as a mild sedative?

            > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            > From: silveroak@...
            > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:57:20 -0400
            > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!
            >
            >
            >
            > What a cool article!
            >
            > http://www.history.com/news/2011/07/14/ancient-medicines-from-shipwreck-s
            > hed-light-on-life-in-antiquity/
            >
            > -Carowyn
            > ____________________________________________________________
            > Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
            > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
            > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e34c4e5be697304c45st04duc
            >
            >
            >
            ------------------------------------
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------
            > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
            > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
            > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
            >
            > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
            > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
            > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Herbalist/
            >
            > <*> Your email settings:
            > Individual Email | Traditional
            >
            > <*> To change settings online go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Herbalist/join
            > (Yahoo! ID
            required)
            >
            > <*> To change settings via email:
            > SCA-Herbalist-digest@yahoogroups.com
            > SCA-Herbalist-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >








          • jack hollandbeck
            When I was growing up in Indiana we KNEW that our tomatoes were the best. Hoosiers are known to pull off a tomato and eat it like an apple. As it turns out we
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 1, 2011
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              When I was growing up in Indiana we KNEW that our tomatoes were the best. Hoosiers are known to pull off a tomato and eat it like an apple. As it turns out we were right according to some past tests. It was the limestone in the soil that really sweetened the tomatoes. The tomatoes in Arizona, well a lot of things including meat, are caca. I always suggest putting a little limestone (not the same as lime) in the tomato bed before planting. So I agree with you that soil can change plants.
              Jack


              To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
              From: silveroak@...
              Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 22:34:38 -0400
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



               
               
              Another point to ponder:
               
              Growing up, we bought lots of produce locally.  Except for one thing - carrots.  *Everyone* knew that carrots from Lancaster County, one county south, were sweeter and better than the local ones.  I don't know why (soil, I'm assuming, or some mineral thereof), but it was a Known thing.
               
              Makes me wonder what other Known things there were!  Or are, even today!   ;-)
               
              -"it's fun talking to the locals" Carowyn
               
               




              ____________________________________________________________
              57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
              Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
              ConsumerLifestyles.org
            • Aly/Cemper
              Personally, I have never made Dwale.  If I had, I would probably boil it down so that two flagons were reduced. Can you imagine having to drink 2 flagons. I d
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 1, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Personally, I have never made Dwale.  If I had, I would probably boil it down so that two flagons were reduced. Can you imagine having to drink 2 flagons. I'd never get through 1/8th of ONE flagon before I keeled over :)
                 
                One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
                To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:52 AM
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                 
                TWO FLAGONS!? The anesthetic was the cure for the dead feel no pain. lol It sounds like an old western where the doc got the patient drunk before removing the arrow head.
                Jack


                To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                From: tolkienscholar@...
                Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:43:22 -0700
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



                Yes, Galen also mentions its uses. Valerian was also one of the main ingredients in one of the recipes I have for Dwale which was an anesthesia. Of course, if you even survied drinking the Dwale which called for 2 flagons of wine, Valerian, hops and Datura (you had to drink the entire thing before surgery), then Valerian or a reaction to it was the least of your worries. :)
                 
                One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
                To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:03 AM
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                 
                Thank you again. I think I remember that it was mentioned by Galen of Pergumum. More research is called for I think. It is amazing how a simple and short change in geography can change a plant's characteristics. That puts an even higher importance on local expertise. Today it seems to me that there is (or maybe has been for a long time) an attempt to hybridize the planet in an attempt to spread beneficial plants, and keep their best characteristics. It just makes me wonder about diversity. Well, an idiot speaks and I don't get much time to do that anymore. Mom's care keeps me too much in my head. Also, I wonder just how much medicinal plant lore was lost in the witch hunts.....and now society is trying to reclaim that lost knowledge. Time to go. Thanks again.
                Jack


                To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                From: tolkienscholar@...
                Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:40:39 -0700
                Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



                One need remember that plants had very different names in different places. Even the genus species of plants was different between areas and many of the genus species and plants we know now were known by different names. The difference could even be extreme from city to city or two different towns within a 30 mile radius. (This makes research a bit of a pain). Valerian has been used as a mild sedative as early as the 7th c. and is mentioned in Bald's Leecebook; however, Valerian was also known as Cetewall. There are two completely different plants known as cetewall: one is a ginger type plant and one is Valerian. 
                The Oxford English Dictionary  cites that setwall, Md. sedewale, is the name given to zedoary, Curcuma zedoaria, a ginger type of plant that is associated with turmeric, and Valeriana pyrenaicia  The mediaeval community knew Valeriana pyrenaicia as Ebullus minor; the modern date genus species names Ebullus minor the name of Valeriana officintalis . Some old English writers, named the herb valerian, setwall (or cetewall). The herb, was, and still is, generally accessible to many .  Even today, one can find Valerian growing in old ruins and buildings in England. Valerian is a strong sedative and works upon the higher nerve centers. It is used internally and usually prescribed as a tea to relieve anxiety and, incidentally, as an anti-convulsion medicine.  The Lacnunga manuscript also lists valerian as an ingredient as a salve. Salves, used against infection are topically applied. “Ðis is seo grene seaf, betonia, rude, lufestice, finel, salue, aeðelferðinewyrt,……ualeriane, clate, medewyert, dweorgedwolsan." {This green (ointment) is betony scab, lovage plant, fennel, (dark noble), king-herb (basil), valerian, burdock,mead-wort (mead with herbs in it),can use for [against] dwarves, mists.}

                As an herb with the medicinal uses that we center upon, whilst Valerian was used internally, because it also had external benefits, the drug also, in some cases, carried the folk name of all-heal. All-heal(s) were popular names given to drugs that had more then one use and more then one important benefit. There are many many different plants that have the name of All-heal and they could be different again from city to city or town to town...
                The biggest problem that I find with Valerian is its current over-use or misuse. For example, my daughter is allergic to Valerian and I have found that many people have adverse reactions to Valerian depending upon doses or just plain unable to digest. Valium is a modern day equivalent of the plant and should be treated as a medication and with caution.
                Citations and References:
                Anderson, Frank J. An Illustrated History of the Herbals. New York: Colombia University Press. 1977.
                Bodin, Gösta. Agnus Castus: A Middle English Herbal.  ed Liljegren, S. B. Uppsala: Almqvist and Wiksells Boktryckeri. 1950.
                Bonser, Wilfrid. The Medical Background of Anglo-Saxon England: A Study in History, Psychology, and Folklore. London: The Wellcome Historical Medical Library. 1963.
                Cameron, M.L. Anglo-Saxon Medicine. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1993.
                Pollington, Stephen. Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore, and Healing. Norfolk, England: Anglo-Saxon Books. 2000/2003.
                Porta, John Baptista. Natural Magick. ed. Price, Derek. New York: Basic Books. (1558). 1957.

                Cheers,
                Cemper



                 
                One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
                To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:55 AM
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                 
                Thanks, Carowyn. Very cool! and right down my alley. I had not thought that ancient doctors had pre-formed compounds in easy to use and dispense packets or tablets. But it makes sense. 
                Jack
                ps now does anybody know long valerian root was used as a mild sedative?

                > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                > From: silveroak@...
                > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:57:20 -0400
                > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!
                >
                >
                >
                > What a cool article!
                >
                > http://www.history.com/news/2011/07/14/ancient-medicines-from-shipwreck-s
                > hed-light-on-life-in-antiquity/
                >
                > -Carowyn
                > ____________________________________________________________
                > Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
                > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
                > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e34c4e5be697304c45st04duc
                >
                >
                >
                ------------------------------------
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------
                > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
                >
                > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
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              • jack hollandbeck
                ugh! reduce two flagons to a glass? It would taste like cough syrup. lol The author probably meant to share the two flagons amongst the surgical team.......no
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 1, 2011
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                  ugh! reduce two flagons to a glass? It would taste like cough syrup. lol The author probably meant to share the two flagons amongst the surgical team.......no pain in Camelot!
                  Jack


                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  From: tolkienscholar@...
                  Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 10:48:35 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



                  Personally, I have never made Dwale.  If I had, I would probably boil it down so that two flagons were reduced. Can you imagine having to drink 2 flagons. I'd never get through 1/8th of ONE flagon before I keeled over :)
                   
                  One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                  From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
                  To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 7:52 AM
                  Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                   
                  TWO FLAGONS!? The anesthetic was the cure for the dead feel no pain. lol It sounds like an old western where the doc got the patient drunk before removing the arrow head.
                  Jack


                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  From: tolkienscholar@...
                  Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:43:22 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



                  Yes, Galen also mentions its uses. Valerian was also one of the main ingredients in one of the recipes I have for Dwale which was an anesthesia. Of course, if you even survied drinking the Dwale which called for 2 flagons of wine, Valerian, hops and Datura (you had to drink the entire thing before surgery), then Valerian or a reaction to it was the least of your worries. :)
                   
                  One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                  From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
                  To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:03 AM
                  Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                   
                  Thank you again. I think I remember that it was mentioned by Galen of Pergumum. More research is called for I think. It is amazing how a simple and short change in geography can change a plant's characteristics. That puts an even higher importance on local expertise. Today it seems to me that there is (or maybe has been for a long time) an attempt to hybridize the planet in an attempt to spread beneficial plants, and keep their best characteristics. It just makes me wonder about diversity. Well, an idiot speaks and I don't get much time to do that anymore. Mom's care keeps me too much in my head. Also, I wonder just how much medicinal plant lore was lost in the witch hunts.....and now society is trying to reclaim that lost knowledge. Time to go. Thanks again.
                  Jack


                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  From: tolkienscholar@...
                  Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2011 11:40:39 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



                  One need remember that plants had very different names in different places. Even the genus species of plants was different between areas and many of the genus species and plants we know now were known by different names. The difference could even be extreme from city to city or two different towns within a 30 mile radius. (This makes research a bit of a pain). Valerian has been used as a mild sedative as early as the 7th c. and is mentioned in Bald's Leecebook; however, Valerian was also known as Cetewall. There are two completely different plants known as cetewall: one is a ginger type plant and one is Valerian. 
                  The Oxford English Dictionary  cites that setwall, Md. sedewale, is the name given to zedoary, Curcuma zedoaria, a ginger type of plant that is associated with turmeric, and Valeriana pyrenaicia  The mediaeval community knew Valeriana pyrenaicia as Ebullus minor; the modern date genus species names Ebullus minor the name of Valeriana officintalis . Some old English writers, named the herb valerian, setwall (or cetewall). The herb, was, and still is, generally accessible to many .  Even today, one can find Valerian growing in old ruins and buildings in England. Valerian is a strong sedative and works upon the higher nerve centers. It is used internally and usually prescribed as a tea to relieve anxiety and, incidentally, as an anti-convulsion medicine.  The Lacnunga manuscript also lists valerian as an ingredient as a salve. Salves, used against infection are topically applied. “Ðis is seo grene seaf, betonia, rude, lufestice, finel, salue, aeðelferðinewyrt,……ualeriane, clate, medewyert, dweorgedwolsan." {This green (ointment) is betony scab, lovage plant, fennel, (dark noble), king-herb (basil), valerian, burdock,mead-wort (mead with herbs in it),can use for [against] dwarves, mists.}

                  As an herb with the medicinal uses that we center upon, whilst Valerian was used internally, because it also had external benefits, the drug also, in some cases, carried the folk name of all-heal. All-heal(s) were popular names given to drugs that had more then one use and more then one important benefit. There are many many different plants that have the name of All-heal and they could be different again from city to city or town to town...
                  The biggest problem that I find with Valerian is its current over-use or misuse. For example, my daughter is allergic to Valerian and I have found that many people have adverse reactions to Valerian depending upon doses or just plain unable to digest. Valium is a modern day equivalent of the plant and should be treated as a medication and with caution.
                  Citations and References:
                  Anderson, Frank J. An Illustrated History of the Herbals. New York: Colombia University Press. 1977.
                  Bodin, Gösta. Agnus Castus: A Middle English Herbal.  ed Liljegren, S. B. Uppsala: Almqvist and Wiksells Boktryckeri. 1950.
                  Bonser, Wilfrid. The Medical Background of Anglo-Saxon England: A Study in History, Psychology, and Folklore. London: The Wellcome Historical Medical Library. 1963.
                  Cameron, M.L. Anglo-Saxon Medicine. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. 1993.
                  Pollington, Stephen. Leechcraft: Early English Charms, Plantlore, and Healing. Norfolk, England: Anglo-Saxon Books. 2000/2003.
                  Porta, John Baptista. Natural Magick. ed. Price, Derek. New York: Basic Books. (1558). 1957.

                  Cheers,
                  Cemper



                   
                  One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                  From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
                  To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:55 AM
                  Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                   
                  Thanks, Carowyn. Very cool! and right down my alley. I had not thought that ancient doctors had pre-formed compounds in easy to use and dispense packets or tablets. But it makes sense. 
                  Jack
                  ps now does anybody know long valerian root was used as a mild sedative?

                  > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: silveroak@...
                  > Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:57:20 -0400
                  > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > What a cool article!
                  >
                  > http://www.history.com/news/2011/07/14/ancient-medicines-from-shipwreck-s
                  > hed-light-on-life-in-antiquity/
                  >
                  > -Carowyn
                  > ____________________________________________________________
                  > Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
                  > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
                  > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e34c4e5be697304c45st04duc
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > -------------------------------------------------------------
                  > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                  > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                  > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
                  >
                  > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                  > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
                  > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Herbalist/
                  >
                  > <*> Your email settings:
                  > Individual Email | Traditional
                  >
                  > <*> To change settings online go to:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA-Herbalist/join
                  > (Yahoo! ID
                  required)
                  >
                  > <*> To change settings via email:
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                  >
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                  >












                • Carowyn Silveroak
                  I m *assuming* (I know, I know!) that the patient was told to drink it all, but closely watched for certain signs of a certain level of intoxication, then
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 1, 2011
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                    I'm *assuming*  (I know, I know!) that the patient was told to drink it all, but closely watched for certain signs of a certain level of intoxication, then have the rest pulled away from the unresisting patient by an assistant?  Conjecture, I know, but hopefully logical! 
                     
                    -Carowyn
                     
                     
                    >Personally, I have never made Dwale.  If I had, I would
                    probably boil it down so that two flagons were reduced. Can you imagine having to drink 2 flagons. I'd never get through 1/8th of ONE flagon before I keeled over :)


                    ____________________________________________________________
                    57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
                    Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
                    ConsumerLifestyles.org
                  • Aly/Cemper
                    I would hope so. I realized after I posted it that boiling would eliminate the alcohol. Needed more coffee for that one. I would assume *yeah, I know too!*
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 1, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I would hope so. I realized after I posted it that boiling would eliminate the alcohol. Needed more coffee for that one. I would assume *yeah, I know too!* that the mixture was a larger quantity and then doled out per person as you mentioned.I have an herbal/liquor tonic, "Mildred's Marvel," that my mom makes and you have to make it in great quantities.Kinda like Plum Pudding. Recently, there were posting about pre-made capsules and such and Dwale may have been one\ of those. Most of the salves and recipes I've used from mediaeval herbals make larger quantities since the work is the same for small or larger doses, so it makes sense to make a lot of Dwale. I've only found a few references to dwale. One or two in books and one or two were on the internet but I try to say away from tertiary sources like wikipedia when I can since who knows who wrote it! (Sorry soapbox!)

                      I guess you could also nip some dwale if the physician was so inclined. 

                      The use of the datura has pretty much prevented me from making it since it is an herb that should be used with caution. Seems a bit toxic and I'm truly not planning on doing surgery on anyone any time soon. 

                      ~Cemper
                       
                      One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                      From: Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...>
                      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 12:59 PM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                       
                      
                       
                       
                      I'm *assuming*  (I know, I know!) that the patient was told to drink it all, but closely watched for certain signs of a certain level of intoxication, then have the rest pulled away from the unresisting patient by an assistant?  Conjecture, I know, but hopefully logical! 
                       
                      -Carowyn
                       
                       
                      >Personally, I have never made Dwale.  If I had, I would
                      probably boil it down so that two flagons were reduced. Can you imagine having to drink 2 flagons. I'd never get through 1/8th of ONE flagon before I keeled over :)


                      ____________________________________________________________
                      57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
                      Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
                      ConsumerLifestyles.org


                    • jack hollandbeck
                      It would make sense for an ancient/medieval pharmacist to make large batches of anything, just like it makes sense for a restaurant chef to prep large
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 2, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        It would make sense for an ancient/medieval pharmacist to make large batches of anything, just like it makes sense for a restaurant chef to prep large quantities. It was a business. As for wikipedia, it is useful for getting some directions and ideas for new research lines. I don't use it as a primary (ie bibliographical) source for the same reasons. Everything from there must be independently verified, but it is a start on ideas. That is unless you believe that Paul Revere rode out to warn the British. lol
                        Jack


                        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                        From: tolkienscholar@...
                        Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2011 19:58:19 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!



                        I would hope so. I realized after I posted it that boiling would eliminate the alcohol. Needed more coffee for that one. I would assume *yeah, I know too!* that the mixture was a larger quantity and then doled out per person as you mentioned.I have an herbal/liquor tonic, "Mildred's Marvel," that my mom makes and you have to make it in great quantities.Kinda like Plum Pudding. Recently, there were posting about pre-made capsules and such and Dwale may have been one\ of those. Most of the salves and recipes I've used from mediaeval herbals make larger quantities since the work is the same for small or larger doses, so it makes sense to make a lot of Dwale. I've only found a few references to dwale. One or two in books and one or two were on the internet but I try to say away from tertiary sources like wikipedia when I can since who knows who wrote it! (Sorry soapbox!)

                        I guess you could also nip some dwale if the physician was so inclined. 

                        The use of the datura has pretty much prevented me from making it since it is an herb that should be used with caution. Seems a bit toxic and I'm truly not planning on doing surgery on anyone any time soon. 

                        ~Cemper
                         
                        One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.


                        From: Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...>
                        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 12:59 PM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] oooh!

                         
                        
                         
                         
                        I'm *assuming*  (I know, I know!) that the patient was told to drink it all, but closely watched for certain signs of a certain level of intoxication, then have the rest pulled away from the unresisting patient by an assistant?  Conjecture, I know, but hopefully logical! 
                         
                        -Carowyn
                         
                         
                        >Personally, I have never made Dwale.  If I had, I would
                        probably boil it down so that two flagons were reduced. Can you imagine having to drink 2 flagons. I'd never get through 1/8th of ONE flagon before I keeled over :)


                        ____________________________________________________________
                        57 Year Old Mom Looks 27!
                        Mom Reveals $5 Wrinkle Trick That Has Angered Doctors!
                        ConsumerLifestyles.org




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