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Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

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  • Lady Biya
    Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the VETERINARIAN. My male,
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
      Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
      nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
      VETERINARIAN.

      My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
      turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
      attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
      a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
      (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
      could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
      metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
      NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
      and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
      perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

      But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
      for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
      prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
      was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
      better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
      them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
      7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
      are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
      people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
      applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
      tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
      dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

      rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
      birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

      But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
      dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
      Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
      and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
      crippling.


      If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
      please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
      her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
      her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
      adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

      What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
      remaining life from being filled with pain?

      Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
      animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

      Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
      even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
      valuable bird?



      --
      Biya
    • Amy Provost
      Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
        Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
        Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

        Ameline

        On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
         

        Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
        nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
        VETERINARIAN.

        My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
        turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
        attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
        a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
        (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
        could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
        metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
        NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
        and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
        perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

        But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
        for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
        prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
        was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
        better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
        them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
        7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
        are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
        people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
        applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
        tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
        dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

        rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
        birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

        But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
        dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
        Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
        and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
        crippling.

        If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
        please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
        her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
        her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
        adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

        What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
        remaining life from being filled with pain?

        Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
        animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

        Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
        even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
        valuable bird?

        --
        Biya




        --
        www.crookedwall.org
        www.bthumbstudios.com
      • Rosamistica Tomacelli de Greene
        My persona is 16th century (for the very reason that earlier is really hard to document any herbs) so I will address it from there. COMFREY!!! This is the
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
          My persona is 16th century (for the very reason that earlier is really
          hard to document any herbs) so I will address it from there.
          COMFREY!!! This is the sovereign healer. I was known as bone knit
          because it aids in healing broken bones. One can apply it topically,
          though if using internally (which the fda now prevents me from
          suggesting for a human, though it was VERY period to do and has been
          considered safe for centuries) it might be wise to use the leaf rather
          than the root. It is well known to aid in healing the flesh, bone,
          muscle and even internal injuries (as Gerard says it is good for those
          with blood in the urine) when taken internally.

          For an antibiotic, my favorite period herb is myrrh. It also is known
          to act as a numbing agent to decrease the pain.

          Cayenne pepper helps with staunching blood flow (though that is
          documentable to my persona, it isn't to yours.)

          Marshmallow, yarrow are other common healers taken both internally and
          used externally.

          I don't know about your time, but washing a wound with alcohol was not
          unheard of in my time. I believe vinegar was also used in wound care.

          Honey is another antibiotic that was period, though I have used it on
          cats, I have not on birds. Please make sure it is raw to retain the
          antibiotic properties. (I can document honey being used topically
          also.)

          My first aid salve that I made for Kingdom A&S last year and
          documented to 1182 is made with equal parts
          Comfrey
          Plantain
          Calendula
          Marshmallow root
          Yarrow
          Myrrh
          Spearmint

          in a base of olive oil and beeswax.

          Please understand that this is my recipe and though I documented the
          herbs and the process, I created the recipe the way any house wife
          might.

          I have other salve recipes for healing, though they are not documented
          to such an early time period.
          --
          Rosamistica Tomacelli de Greene
          Nec timeo, nec sperno.


          > If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
          > please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
          > her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
          > her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
          > adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!
          >
          > What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
          > remaining life from being filled with pain?
          >
          > Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
          > animals were too valuable for too many reasons!
          >
          > Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
          > even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
          > valuable bird?
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > Biya
          >
        • Alyson
          There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
            There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
            Thanks!
            Cempestra O'Breoniann
             
            One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



            From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
            Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

             

            Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
            Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

            Ameline

            On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
             

            Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
            nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
            VETERINARIAN.

            My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
            turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
            attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
            a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
            (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
            could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
            metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
            NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
            and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
            perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

            But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
            for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
            prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
            was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
            better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
            them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
            7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
            are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
            people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
            applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
            tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
            dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

            rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
            birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

            But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
            dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
            Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
            and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
            crippling.

            If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
            please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
            her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
            her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
            adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

            What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
            remaining life from being filled with pain?

            Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
            animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

            Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
            even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
            valuable bird?

            --
            Biya




            --
            www.crookedwall.org
            www.bthumbstudios.com
          • Charlie Farrow
            If you don t have a pantry full of made-up remedies you will need to improvise. You need to clean the wound with a sterile antibacterial substance. Vinegar
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
              If you don't have a pantry full of made-up remedies you will need to improvise.

              You need to clean the wound with a sterile antibacterial substance. Vinegar solution infused with dried comfrey springs to mind to clean and aid healing of broken bones or sprains. Allow to dry. Then close the lesion with a salve - modern poultry farmers use vaseline! A simple calendula salve should do the trick.

              In a double boiler combine a measure vegetable oil with as much dried calendula flower as will fit into the oil, heat for an hour and a half let cool for a while, and strain through muslin.

              Add 1 part beeswax (by weight) to 8 parts herbal oil (by volume); that's 100 g beeswax to 8 dl oil.


              Charlie



              On 23 February 2011 18:27, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
               

              Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
              Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

              Ameline



              On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
               

              Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
              nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
              VETERINARIAN.

              My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
              turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
              attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
              a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
              (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
              could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
              metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
              NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
              and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
              perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

              But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
              for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
              prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
              was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
              better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
              them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
              7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
              are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
              people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
              applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
              tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
              dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

              rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
              birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

              But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
              dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
              Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
              and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
              crippling.

              If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
              please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
              her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
              her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
              adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

              What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
              remaining life from being filled with pain?

              Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
              animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

              Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
              even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
              valuable bird?

              --
              Biya




              --
              www.crookedwall.org
              www.bthumbstudios.com



              --
              Charlie Farrow

            • Rosamistica Tomacelli de Greene
              Comfrey is on the fda target list because of the pyrolyzing alkaloids in it. They are more prevalent in the roots than the leaves, and in order to ingest
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
                Comfrey is on the fda target list because of the pyrolyzing alkaloids
                in it. They are more prevalent in the roots than the leaves, and in
                order to ingest enough to cause damage one would have to have the
                equivalent of 40 cups of infusion injected subcutaneously, or eat
                approximate 2600 leaves daily for at least 6 weeks. There is very
                rarely a reaction with those who have extreme liver toxicity and no
                injury to mend, but in all the cases are about a handful and all that
                is to be done is to only eat it in case of injury, or use it after
                cleansing the liver (like dandelion.)
                --
                Ramona Rebarchik student School of Natural Healing (because
                Rosamistica wouldn't know what pyrolyzing alkaloids were.)
                Nec timeo, nec sperno.


                Quoting Alyson <tolkienscholar@...>:

                > There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken
                > internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does
                > anyone have
                > any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey
                > internally? I
                > know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but
                > were deemed
                > toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had
                > non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery
                > in not an
                > herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a
                > dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                >
                > Thanks!
                > Cempestra O'Breoniann
                >
                >
                > One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would
                > have done in
                > period?
                >
                >
                > Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical
                > infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow
                > for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                > Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!
                >
                > Ameline
                >
                >
                > On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >> Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                >> nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                >> VETERINARIAN.
                >>
                >> My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                >> turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                >> attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                >> a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                >> (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                >> could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                >> metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                >> NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                >> and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                >> perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.
                >>
                >> But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                >> for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                >> prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                >> was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                >> better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                >> them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                >> 7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                >> are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                >> people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                >> applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                >> tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                >> dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"
                >>
                >> rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                >> birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).
                >>
                >> But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                >> dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                >> Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                >> and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                >> crippling.
                >>
                >> If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                >> please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                >> her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                >> her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                >> adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!
                >>
                >> What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                >> remaining life from being filled with pain?
                >>
                >> Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                >> animals were too valuable for too many reasons!
                >>
                >> Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                >> even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                >> valuable bird?
                >>
                >> --
                >> Biya
                >>
                >
                >
                > --
                > www.crookedwall.org
                > www.bthumbstudios.com
                >
                >
              • Amy Provost
                There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use. This study, in my opinion,
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
                  There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.

                  On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                   

                  There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                  Thanks!
                  Cempestra O'Breoniann
                   
                  One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                  From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                   

                  Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                  Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                  Ameline

                  On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                  nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                  VETERINARIAN.

                  My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                  turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                  attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                  a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                  (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                  could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                  metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                  NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                  and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                  perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                  But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                  for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                  prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                  was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                  better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                  them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                  7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                  are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                  people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                  applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                  tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                  dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                  rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                  birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                  But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                  dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                  Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                  and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                  crippling.

                  If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                  please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                  her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                  her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                  adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                  What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                  remaining life from being filled with pain?

                  Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                  animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                  Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                  even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                  valuable bird?

                  --
                  Biya







                  --
                  www.crookedwall.org
                  www.bthumbstudios.com
                • Charlie Farrow
                  Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure s definitive article reproduced by
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
                    Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure's definitive article reproduced by Henriette Kress.
                    http://www.henriettesherbal.com/faqs/medi-5-1-side-effects.html/


                    On 23 February 2011 19:57, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
                     

                    There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.



                    On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                     

                    There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                    Thanks!
                    Cempestra O'Breoniann
                     
                    One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                    From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                    To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                     

                    Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                    Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                    Ameline

                    On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                     

                    Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                    nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                    VETERINARIAN.

                    My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                    turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                    attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                    a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                    (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                    could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                    metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                    NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                    and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                    perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                    But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                    for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                    prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                    was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                    better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                    them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                    7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                    are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                    people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                    applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                    tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                    dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                    rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                    birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                    But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                    dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                    Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                    and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                    crippling.

                    If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                    please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                    her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                    her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                    adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                    What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                    remaining life from being filled with pain?

                    Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                    animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                    Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                    even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                    valuable bird?

                    --
                    Biya







                    --
                    www.crookedwall.org
                    www.bthumbstudios.com



                    --
                    Charlie Farrow

                  • Alyson
                    Thanks! I was unaware of the limitation. I am familiar with the bone-mending properties but not the enzymes that can balance any toxins. Your information
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
                      Thanks! I was unaware of the limitation. I am familiar with the bone-mending properties but not the enzymes that can balance any "toxins." Your information will prove helpful!
                      Cheers,
                      Cemper
                       
                      One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                      From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 10:57:43 AM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                       

                      There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.

                      On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                       

                      There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                      Thanks!
                      Cempestra O'Breoniann
                       
                      One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                      From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                       

                      Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                      Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                      Ameline

                      On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                       

                      Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                      nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                      VETERINARIAN.

                      My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                      turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                      attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                      a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                      (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                      could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                      metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                      NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                      and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                      perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                      But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                      for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                      prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                      was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                      better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                      them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                      7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                      are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                      people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                      applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                      tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                      dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                      rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                      birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                      But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                      dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                      Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                      and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                      crippling.

                      If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                      please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                      her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                      her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                      adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                      What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                      remaining life from being filled with pain?

                      Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                      animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                      Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                      even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                      valuable bird?

                      --
                      Biya







                      --
                      www.crookedwall.org
                      www.bthumbstudios.com
                    • Jennifer Heise
                      Comfrey is considered a bad idea to take internally because it is toxic to the liver, which they found out from people taking it for long periods or in high
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
                        Comfrey is considered a bad idea to take internally because it is toxic to the liver, which they found out from people taking it for long periods or in high doses. The pyrrolizidine alkaloids that are present in comfrey are also associated with carcenogenicity in other contexts, so in the U.S. it's generally considered iffy for external application.  So, there are actual human poisioning cases for comfrey, but it's long-term hepatotoxic, unlike, say, mature pokeweed.

                        Many of the 'witches weeds' that are now considered toxic *do* cause hallucinations, but not alll. Many of the painkillers in period such as mandragora were known even then to be dangerous due to dosing issues.  One way to see how easy it is to overdose on an herb is to look it up in Pubmed and see how many reports of poisoning/toxicity cases show up. (My favorite for Datura is the one about the guy who accidentally poisoned his whole family by grafting  tomato plants onto Jimsonweed, then serving the tomatoes.)

                        -- Jadwiga

                        On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                         

                        There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                        Thanks!
                        Cempestra O'Breoniann
                         
                        One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                        From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                         

                        Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                        Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                        Ameline

                        On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                         

                        Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                        nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                        VETERINARIAN.

                        My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                        turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                        attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                        a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                        (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                        could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                        metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                        NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                        and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                        perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                        But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                        for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                        prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                        was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                        better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                        them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                        7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                        are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                        people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                        applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                        tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                        dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                        rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                        birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                        But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                        dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                        Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                        and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                        crippling.

                        If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                        please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                        her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                        her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                        adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                        What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                        remaining life from being filled with pain?

                        Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                        animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                        Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                        even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                        valuable bird?

                        --
                        Biya




                        --
                        www.crookedwall.org
                        www.bthumbstudios.com



                        --
                        Jennifer Heise

                        known in the SCA as Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
                      • Shield of Peace
                        Comfrey (Symphytum Officianale) is recommended for external use only in the Physician s Desk Reference for Herbal Medicines, unless an extract has been
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
                          Comfrey (Symphytum Officianale) is recommended for external use only in the Physician's Desk Reference for Herbal Medicines, unless an extract has been prepared that removes the pyrrolizidine alkaloids which supposedly are carcinogenic.

                          My copy of this PDR is from 2000, so it's information might be outdated. However, it should be noted that this reference relies heavily on European sources, so the idea that comfrey was discouraged for use only by the FDA is probably false. The FDA often does go overboard, though - they want to eliminate use of the herb entirely from what I've heard.

                          I have used comfrey externally with no ill effects.

                          Aquilina

                          On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                           

                          There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                          Thanks!
                          Cempestra O'Breoniann
                           
                          One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                          From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                          To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                          Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                           

                          Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                          Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                          Ameline

                          On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                           

                          Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                          nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                          VETERINARIAN.

                          My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                          turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                          attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                          a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                          (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                          could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                          metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                          NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                          and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                          perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                          But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                          for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                          prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                          was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                          better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                          them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                          7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                          are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                          people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                          applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                          tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                          dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                          rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                          birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                          But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                          dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                          Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                          and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                          crippling.

                          If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                          please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                          her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                          her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                          adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                          What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                          remaining life from being filled with pain?

                          Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                          animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                          Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                          even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                          valuable bird?

                          --
                          Biya




                          --
                          www.crookedwall.org
                          www.bthumbstudios.com



                          --
                          "If they tell you to go, there is something you should know
                          They wave the flag when you attack, when you come home they turn their back" - VFP cadence

                        • Amy Provost
                          I believe it was Matthew Wood that states that the alkaloids in question are more present in the spring. Because of this we ve generally been using the first
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 23, 2011
                            I believe it was Matthew Wood that states that the alkaloids in question are more present in the spring.  Because of this we've generally been using the first harvest to make oils and the second harvest for internal consumption.
                            Here's an excellent link with most of the latest information and references... http://www.comfreycentral.com/
                            Ameline

                            On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Jennifer Heise <jenne.heise@...> wrote:
                             

                            Comfrey is considered a bad idea to take internally because it is toxic to the liver, which they found out from people taking it for long periods or in high doses. The pyrrolizidine alkaloids that are present in comfrey are also associated with carcenogenicity in other contexts, so in the U.S. it's generally considered iffy for external application.  So, there are actual human poisioning cases for comfrey, but it's long-term hepatotoxic, unlike, say, mature pokeweed.

                            Many of the 'witches weeds' that are now considered toxic *do* cause hallucinations, but not alll. Many of the painkillers in period such as mandragora were known even then to be dangerous due to dosing issues.  One way to see how easy it is to overdose on an herb is to look it up in Pubmed and see how many reports of poisoning/toxicity cases show up. (My favorite for Datura is the one about the guy who accidentally poisoned his whole family by grafting  tomato plants onto Jimsonweed, then serving the tomatoes.)

                            -- Jadwiga



                            On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                             

                            There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                            Thanks!
                            Cempestra O'Breoniann
                             
                            One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                            From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                            Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                             

                            Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                            Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                            Ameline

                            On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                             

                            Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                            nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                            VETERINARIAN.

                            My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                            turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                            attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                            a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                            (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                            could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                            metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                            NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                            and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                            perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                            But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                            for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                            prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                            was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                            better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                            them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                            7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                            are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                            people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                            applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                            tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                            dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                            rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                            birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                            But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                            dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                            Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                            and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                            crippling.

                            If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                            please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                            her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                            her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                            adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                            What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                            remaining life from being filled with pain?

                            Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                            animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                            Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                            even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                            valuable bird?

                            --
                            Biya




                            --
                            www.crookedwall.org
                            www.bthumbstudios.com



                            --
                            Jennifer Heise

                            known in the SCA as Jadwiga Zajaczkowa



                            --
                            www.crookedwall.org
                            www.bthumbstudios.com
                          • Jeffrey Pottle
                            An infusion of calendula is excellent as a topical antiseptic. I have a cat who was scratched in the eye by another cat. We used an infusion of calendula and
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 24, 2011
                              An infusion of calendula is excellent as a topical antiseptic. I have a cat who was scratched in the eye by another cat. We used an infusion of calendula and applied it with an eye dropper and it cleared right up.

                              I don't know about birds, but a little Rescue Remedy in their water calmed my cats down. I hope your bird feels better soon!


                              --- On Wed, 2/23/11, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:

                              > From: Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...>
                              > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?
                              > To: "SCA-Herbalist" <SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Date: Wednesday, February 23, 2011, 6:12 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              >
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                              >
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                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a
                              > fight...the kind of
                              >
                              > nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon
                              > at the
                              >
                              > VETERINARIAN.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should
                              > NOT get a
                              >
                              > turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very
                              > aggressively
                              >
                              > attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned
                              > out to be
                              >
                              > a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of
                              > the bone
                              >
                              > (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went
                              > down and she
                              >
                              > could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor
                              > prescribed
                              >
                              > metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very
                              > very new
                              >
                              > NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps
                              > with both pain
                              >
                              > and swelling. Even with medication, she's having
                              > trouble grasping her
                              >
                              > perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human
                              > societies
                              >
                              > for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the
                              > most
                              >
                              > prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick
                              > II's cockatoo
                              >
                              > was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably
                              > received
                              >
                              > better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more
                              > than most of
                              >
                              > them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since
                              > at least the
                              >
                              > 7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still
                              > difficult--they really
                              >
                              > are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially!
                              > Most
                              >
                              > people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro
                              > bird
                              >
                              > applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting
                              > from temper
                              >
                              > tantrums when they don't get what they want--which
                              > could just be "you
                              >
                              > dared pay attention to something besides ME just
                              > now!"
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are
                              > NOT easy
                              >
                              > birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of
                              > first,
                              >
                              > dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot
                              > imagine
                              >
                              > Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in
                              > aviculture!)
                              >
                              > and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal
                              > nor
                              >
                              > crippling.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your
                              > persona's year,
                              >
                              > please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg
                              > injuries to keep
                              >
                              > her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor
                              > break in
                              >
                              > her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST
                              > ENTERING
                              >
                              > adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of
                              > her
                              >
                              > remaining life from being filled with pain?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context!
                              > Too many
                              >
                              > animals were too valuable for too many reasons!
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or
                              > would they,
                              >
                              > even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody
                              > wound on a
                              >
                              > valuable bird?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              >
                              > Biya
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • psn3748@comcast.net
                              i had taken a class 20 + yrs from Dr. James Duke - one of the reknown herbalists of our mundane time - w hen i asked him about some of the information i had be
                              Message 14 of 15 , Aug 5 2:03 PM

                                i had taken a class 20+ yrs from Dr. James Duke - one of the reknown herbalists of our mundane time - when i asked him about some of the information i had been reading regarding comfrey and it's carcinogenic levels - his response to me - "comfrey taken internally has only half the carcinogens that the mustard you put on your hotdog does - the thing to remember - comfrey doesn't have a lobby in washington".   since then i've used comfrey for numrous things both externally and internally with no problems or issues.

                                 

                                Ros

                                 


                                 


                                From: "Charlie Farrow" <charlie.farrow@...>
                                To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:00:26 PM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                                 

                                Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure's definitive article reproduced by Henriette Kress.
                                http://www.henriettesherbal.com/faqs/medi-5-1-side-effects.html/


                                On 23 February 2011 19:57, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
                                 

                                There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.



                                On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                                 

                                There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                                Thanks!
                                Cempestra O'Breoniann
                                 
                                One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                                From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                                To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                                Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                                 

                                Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                                Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                                Ameline

                                On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                                nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                                VETERINARIAN.

                                My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                                turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                                attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                                a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                                (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                                could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                                metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                                NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                                and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                                perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                                But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                                for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                                prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                                was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                                better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                                them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                                7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                                are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                                people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                                applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                                tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                                dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                                rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                                birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                                But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                                dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                                Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                                and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                                crippling.

                                If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                                please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                                her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                                her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                                adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                                What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                                remaining life from being filled with pain?

                                Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                                animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                                Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                                even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                                valuable bird?

                                --
                                Biya







                                --
                                www.crookedwall.org
                                www.bthumbstudios.com



                                --
                                Charlie Farrow

                              • Rhonda Heyns
                                I have one of Dr. Duke s books. Lucky you getting to learn directly from him! To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com From: psn3748@comcast.net Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011
                                Message 15 of 15 , Aug 7 12:04 PM
                                  I have one of Dr. Duke's books. Lucky you getting to learn directly from him!




                                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: psn3748@...
                                  Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 21:03:59 +0000
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                                   

                                  i had taken a class 20+ yrs from Dr. James Duke - one of the reknown herbalists of our mundane time - when i asked him about some of the information i had been reading regarding comfrey and it's carcinogenic levels - his response to me - "comfrey taken internally has only half the carcinogens that the mustard you put on your hotdog does - the thing to remember - comfrey doesn't have a lobby in washington".   since then i've used comfrey for numrous things both externally and internally with no problems or issues.
                                   
                                  Ros
                                   

                                   



                                  From: "Charlie Farrow" <charlie.farrow@...>
                                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:00:26 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                                   
                                  Regarding the hepatotoxicity of pyrrolizidine-alkaloid-containing plants such as Comfrey please see Jonathan Treasure's definitive article reproduced by Henriette Kress.
                                  http://www.henriettesherbal.com/faqs/medi-5-1-side-effects.html/



                                  On 23 February 2011 19:57, Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  There is one study that implicates a carcinogenic component of comfrey, which moved the FDA to ban it in the US for internal use.  This study, in my opinion, does not take into account the hundreds of other constituents in the plant that counterbalance and negate the effects of that component.  The fact of the matter is that the plant has safely been used internally for over 2000 years.  I've used it, and herbal friends have used it to cut down the bone mending time by about 1/3.  I believe the German Commision E recommends limiting usage to under 6 weeks.  For an otherwise healthy person, there should not be issues of short term consumption.  It is processed by the liver, so caution is advised if combining with other medications, especially NSAIDS.  Externally, it's a fantastic healer too.


                                  On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Alyson <tolkienscholar@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  There seems to be a controversy surrounding comfrey: Should comfrey be taken internally? I personally do not use it internally, but some do. Does anyone have any research or evidence that supports the use (or not) of comfrey internally? I know that many herbs considered "toxic" are toxic at high doses but were deemed toxic because they produced hallucinogenics or were aphrodisiacs or had non-Christian associations (I'm referring to medieval here). Comfery in not an herb that shows up on my radar of controversial medieval herbs. I'm more of a dittany, mandragora and daturia woman.
                                  Thanks!
                                  Cempestra O'Breoniann
                                   
                                  One cannot silly-walk into Mordor.



                                  From: Amy Provost <sparrowhawk9@...>
                                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wed, February 23, 2011 9:27:29 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mithril's injuries and what they would have done in period?

                                   
                                  Off the top of my head, I would think myrhh and calendula for topical infection/wound treatment, comfrey internally for potential break, and willow for pain (might as well just let them chew on a branch).
                                  Hope your bird's okay - they can be so testy when in breeding mode!

                                  Ameline


                                  On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Lady Biya <aisinbiya@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  Hello all. Monday night my two cockatoos had a fight...the kind of
                                  nasty fight that meant I spend all of yesturday afternoon at the
                                  VETERINARIAN.

                                  My male, Aragorn, decided that my female, Mithril, should NOT get a
                                  turn on their eggs in their nest box and he very very aggressively
                                  attacked her. He bite her right thigh, causing what turned out to be
                                  a moderate flesh wound and a possible hairline fracture of the bone
                                  (the doctor did not want to x-ray until the swelling went down and she
                                  could perch). She's in a lot of pain and the doctor prescribed
                                  metacam for her twice a day which is apparently this very very new
                                  NSAID that is safe for dogs, cats, and birds that helps with both pain
                                  and swelling. Even with medication, she's having trouble grasping her
                                  perch with the right leg or putting weight on it.

                                  But it makes me wonder...aviculture has been part of human societies
                                  for thousands of years. And cockatoos have always been the most
                                  prized of all aviculture birds. In Germany, Frederick II's cockatoo
                                  was the talk of 13th century europe. That bird probably received
                                  better care than half of his subjects (and was worth more than most of
                                  them too!). The Chinese had been raising cockatoos since at least the
                                  7th century, but cockatoo aviculture is still difficult--they really
                                  are the hardest of the parrots to deal with behaviorially! Most
                                  people cannot handle their personalities (the phrase velcro bird
                                  applies!) which can include frequent and vicious biting from temper
                                  tantrums when they don't get what they want--which could just be "you
                                  dared pay attention to something besides ME just now!"

                                  rofl...after 15 years of cockatoos, may I say that they are NOT easy
                                  birds to deal with?! (receives bite in ear for typing).

                                  But being so valuable...they would have had to have ways of first,
                                  dealing with these squabbles with their mates (i cannot imagine
                                  Mithril is the only cockatoo to be bitten by her mate in aviculture!)
                                  and second, treating the injuries so they were not lethal nor
                                  crippling.

                                  If I were my persona and it was 1185 (or pick your persona's year,
                                  please!), how would we be dealing with Mithril's leg injuries to keep
                                  her from going lame over a flesh wound and a possible minor break in
                                  her leg? How would we deal with this? This bird is JUST ENTERING
                                  adulthood. she's barely more than a baby!

                                  What would we do to keep her from spending the decades of her
                                  remaining life from being filled with pain?

                                  Herbalism had to have been applied to a veterinary context! Too many
                                  animals were too valuable for too many reasons!

                                  Was there a way to gently disinfect a wound in period? or would they,
                                  even in the far east, even thought about washing a bloody wound on a
                                  valuable bird?

                                  --
                                  Biya







                                  --
                                  www.crookedwall.org
                                  www.bthumbstudios.com



                                  --
                                  Charlie Farrow



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