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RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel

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  • Rickard, Patty
    Hi Jack, Ours did come from Europe (as far as I know) but I thought that it was a different species - it used to be called Dipsacus sylvestrus. Looking at
    Message 1 of 33 , Feb 1, 2010

      Hi Jack,

       

      Ours did come from Europe (as far as I know) but I thought that it was a different species - it used to be called Dipsacus sylvestrus. Looking at recent sites, though, it looks like they’ve moved it back to Dipsacus fullonum, like the European fuller’s teasel. Just goes to show that what you used to know might not be so. The ones here still wouldn’t bite in very far, but if it’s for a surface finish that would probably be better. Not going to get the knots out of those ponytails, though.

       

      Snow piles up on them ‘real pretty’ as we say hereabouts, but they make lousy snow shovels (those prickly handles are murder). Looks like all of our snow is going to melt away this week. Of course we still have the rest of Feb, March, April, … to get more. Sun? oh, that bright thing that’s sometimes in the sky? I think we have more overcast days than anywhere else in the country. We only have a nodding acquaintance with the sun.

       

      Patty

      From: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jack hollandbeck
      Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:19 PM
      To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel

       

       

      Hmmm, the web source I read said ours were imported from Europe, I think. Oh well, mutations will occur. How are they at shoveling snow? lol I heard you have had some. In Phoenix we just get rain and sun.........lot of really hot sun.
      Jack

      > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > From: rickarpa@...
      > Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:40:40 -0500
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      >
      > I think that the european teasels (used for fulling) are different from N.
      Am. ones. I don't know if their bristles were more at 90 degrees, but I don't think that ours (Ohio) would be very effective at combing (or currying) anything.
      > Patty
      > ________________________________
      > From: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com [SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of jack hollandbeck [original_xman@...]
      > Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:37 AM
      > To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      >
      >
      >
      > Hmm, if the flower pods were/are soft then they could be handled easily if
      you gripped them from the bottom up. I should think that if they are soft, yet still spiky then they would do a good job on the horse, mane, tail, or even little girl's ponytails in a time before brushes. I can understand putting them in a frame for fulling. One could cover more area that way. Nice thinking. Any more ideas? lol'
      > Jack
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > From: avaline_2003@...
      > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:11:04 -0800
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      >
      >
      >
      > I would most likely have used gloves - although one respondent mentioned
      that teasle heads are curiously soft. I'd have just grabbed one up and curried the horse in the usual fashion! Got a new one when that became fouled with hair. When they used them for fulling cloth, the teasel heads were attached to a framework.
      >
      > Avaline la Chevriere
      >
      > o--}------------------------
      >
      > A committee should consist of three men, two of whom are absent.
      >
      >
      > --- On Sat, 1/30/10, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...>
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      > To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 2:27 PM
      >
      >
      > Oh, sorry about the horses. A friend of mine is also a horsewoman with no
      horses. She misses riding, too. However a friend of mine lives in a city and is Western rider. He lives by Cherry Hill's book on keeping horses on small acreage. That might be a way for you to meet all needs. lol I have never ridden one of Epona's children (Epona was a goddess associated with horses) so I can't empathize. I am a rock in the river of the economy, the money just goes around me, so I can't even take lessons. Oh, back to horses....how would you use the teasel? trim them down? use gloves? put them on a stick?
      > Jack
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      > From: avaline_2003@ yahoo.com
      > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:54:57 -0800
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      >
      >
      >
      > Nope, not an equestrian now, but used to be. Sold the critters, moved to
      the city, now can only daydream...
      >
      > BUT: If I had had teasels around, I would have used them on my horses to
      curry them, I betcha!
      >
      > Avaline la Chevriere
      >
      > o--}-------- --------- -------
      >
      > A committee should consist of three men, two of whom are absent.
      >
      >
      > --- On Fri, 1/29/10, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@ hotmail.com>
      wrote:
      >
      > From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@ hotmail.com>
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      > To: sca-herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 6:16 PM
      >
      >
      > Hey, are you an equestrian? Just asking. Maybe it could be used. The
      flower pod is egg-shaped, but covered with stickers like a giant thistle. I would think that a hand hold must be carved, like for a stubby pestle, for it to be used. Then again, perhaps it could be hollowed out and stuck on a stick, something like a gourd rattle. I really am not sure how it was used. The archaeologist didn't go into that in her report. Her report was about agriculture and land use in the region in late Roman times.
      > Jack
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      > From: avaline_2003@ yahoo.com
      > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:07:03 -0800
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      >
      >
      >
      > I could see where a teasel might be useful for brushing out a horse's
      winter coat in the spring - like a shedding blade. Would fit in the palm of the hand (with gloves) and be easy to use.
      >
      > Avaline la Chevriere
      >
      > o--}-------- --------- -------
      >
      > A committee should consist of three men, two of whom are absent.
      >
      >
      > --- On Fri, 1/29/10, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@ hotmail.com>
      wrote:
      >
      > From: jack hollandbeck <original_xman@ hotmail.com>
      > Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      > To: sca-herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 5:40 PM
      >
      >
      > Yuck. That would hurt. Maybe it was better on taking out braids than the
      local combs. I wonder if the ancients used it to curry out and brush their horses. They had a lot of them in that region of the Netherlands.
      > Jack
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      > From: tolkienscholar@ yahoo.com
      > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:49:07 -0800
      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      >
      >
      >
      > I believe that they were also used to brush hair.
      > ~Kemper O'Breoniann
      >
      > Life is meant to be an adventure; change is a gift that we have to learn
      to use aright. A Celtic curse is to be stuck in a field and unable to leave. To be stuck in one place forever.
      > To be unable to venture or change.
      > An open gate is the opposite of this. It is the invitation to venture, to
      grow, the call to be among the living vital elements of the world.
      > The open gate is the call to explore new areas of yourself
      > and the world around you
      > ~David Adam,The Open Gate~
      >
      >
      > ________________________________
      > From: Avaline <avaline_2003@ yahoo.com>
      > To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Thu, January 28, 2010 11:33:35 AM
      > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      >
      >
      > Weren't teasel heads used to raise the nap of woven cloth? Teasel has a
      head like a burr, only larger, if I remember correctly. I'd have to check my sources to see if it had medicinal value, but I remember something about it being used in eyewash - collecting the dew from the heads, I think.
      >
      > When I get home, I'll check my sources and see what I have. We are relying
      on my memory, here. *gasp*
      >
      > Avaline la Chevriere
      >
      > o--}-------- --------- -------
      >
      > A committee should consist of three men, two of whom are absent.
      >
      >
      > --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Richard <original_xman@
      hotmail.com<http://hotmail.com>> wrote:
      >
      > From: Richard <original_xman@ hotmail.com>
      > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel
      > To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      > Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 2:16 PM
      >
      >
      > Good afternoon, Happy New Year and almost Happy February.
      >
      > I have come across mention of teasel in my research. It was from near the
      mouth of the Rhine River in The Netherlands. It may be a wetlands plant, if not from a marsh. The archaeologist thought that it might have been used in dying.
      >
      > Does anyone know of this plant, uses, etc.? If it was used in dying, how
      so? color? fixer? primer? Could or did it have other uses such as medicinal? The same archaeologist also listed vervain as a medicinal.
      >
      > Anyway, I appreciate any and all help that you can share. Thanks all.
      > Jack
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Lila Richards
      ... It does, although I suppose you could thereby create an entire new set of misconceptions. :-) But I certainly think it pays not to take too much notice of
      Message 33 of 33 , Feb 12, 2010
        > Pretty much. Speculating on the druids can be a full time profession. lol
        > I like to use other language than what has already been used to describe
        > them. I do that for everything because I used to do some counseling and
        > teach special education so I had to find alternative explanations, and
        > because by not using the "usual" words I try to avoid any built in
        > misconceptions. Does that make sense?<

        It does, although I suppose you could thereby create an entire new set of
        misconceptions. :-) But I certainly think it pays not to take too much
        notice of the Roman propaganda about them.

        >Anyway, what we may have had in the druids was the genesis of a
        >proto-priestly elite. Think of the druids, NOT in classical terms, but in
        >the development of a civilization like Egypt, Babylonia, Indus Valley. The
        >usual development in civilization was to plant, then the rise of a military
        >elite (we have that in the Celts), then the rise of a priesthood around a
        >temple cult. Those priesthoods were the intellectual leaders and
        >controllers for their civilizations. I think that is what the druids
        >were....the proto-priesthood for this undiscovered lost civilization of
        >Celts. This avoids all the misconceptions by the Greeks, Romans, and
        >Christian bishops. The druids were trained to be the local elites with a
        >core of necessary skills and knowledge (college), but could also specialize
        >and cross train. This extra education would account for the classic "up to
        >twenty years of training" in the classical literature. They kept order by
        >enforcing the natural laws of the gods, I think. That would include the
        >natural order in planting, plant use, inter-personal and inter-tribal
        >relations, relations with the gods, weather, and every other thing. They
        >monitored the natural machinery of the world and life for the gods.
        >Naturally they would have to be able to observe, understand, translate and
        >make use of every thing in their environment. A thistle curry comb was no
        >different than a flight of birds or a rainbow to them. They were all part
        >of the natural machinery. Okay, enough of this, I am starting to have fun.
        >I guess that I have tried to back off and look at them from a different
        >perspective, in this case anthropologically. I don't see them as great
        >mystics (though some were, take the myrdden?) or nature freaks or
        >super-environmentalists. I think they did much as this group
        >does......experiment and learn from each other. In their plant lore I don't
        >think that they were much different from you....scholars, agronomists and
        >scientists. That is kind of a fun way to look at it. They were the handimen
        >and women of the gods. That is also one explanation of a priesthood.<

        I think they were probably similar to the Maori tohunga or his equivalent in
        African cultures, who was a priest (probably in a more or less shamanic
        sense), and also the repository of the tribe's lore and history, and as
        such, having a very high status in the tribe.


        >There is some thought that the classic Irish tales, such as the Tain bo
        >Cuailnge (?), may have come from the time of the Irish migrations in the
        >3rd or 4th century CE. lol A family album of a hostile takeover.<

        They do seem to refer to a time when the politics of Ireland were in a state
        of flux, and clan territories, etc., being established, so this could well
        be the case.

        Cheers,

        Sinech.


        * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil - The Truth Against the World





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