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Re: [SCA-Herbalist] teasel

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  • Lila Richards
    ... On reflection, New Age wasn t really the right phrase, more that he romanticises more than scholars like (I have this from the scholars and academics on
    Message 1 of 33 , Jan 31, 2010
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      jack hollandbeck wrote:
       

      hehehe This is fun. I have The Druids by Peter Beresford Ellis. I don't know how new age he is, but some of his ideas strike pretty close to what we do know (and that is pitifully little) of the ancient druids.


      On reflection, New Age wasn't really the right phrase, more that he romanticises more than scholars like (I have this from the scholars and academics on the Early Medieval Ireland list). But, as you say, very little is known about them, and much of that was Roman attempts to vilify them.


      I, too, love the rebellion in the phrase. If you apply to everyday experiences it becomes wisdom to see things as they really are, and avoid getting distracted from what is really going on. Try it with politicians. lol They become sooooo childish.


      :-D  Too true. So much for democracy!


      I wouldn't know ancient Gaelic from modern if I had a guide. I was joking and playing off the rebellious nature of the Welsh and the Irish, and their playfulness. Also they haven't had the best relations with English speakers in history. Just ask them.

      Also very true. :-)   Just as a matter of interest, the language spoken by the Gauls at the time the Romans got there was apparently still quite close to Latin. I suspect, from that, that they must have spoken Brythonic Celtic (P Celtic), the same branch as the Welsh and Cornish. Gaelic (Q Celtic) is much more ancient, as it branched off from Indo European before Greek and Latin did.

      Sinech.
      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
      An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil - The Truth Against the World
                      
      
      
      
      


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    • Lila Richards
      ... It does, although I suppose you could thereby create an entire new set of misconceptions. :-) But I certainly think it pays not to take too much notice of
      Message 33 of 33 , Feb 12, 2010
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        > Pretty much. Speculating on the druids can be a full time profession. lol
        > I like to use other language than what has already been used to describe
        > them. I do that for everything because I used to do some counseling and
        > teach special education so I had to find alternative explanations, and
        > because by not using the "usual" words I try to avoid any built in
        > misconceptions. Does that make sense?<

        It does, although I suppose you could thereby create an entire new set of
        misconceptions. :-) But I certainly think it pays not to take too much
        notice of the Roman propaganda about them.

        >Anyway, what we may have had in the druids was the genesis of a
        >proto-priestly elite. Think of the druids, NOT in classical terms, but in
        >the development of a civilization like Egypt, Babylonia, Indus Valley. The
        >usual development in civilization was to plant, then the rise of a military
        >elite (we have that in the Celts), then the rise of a priesthood around a
        >temple cult. Those priesthoods were the intellectual leaders and
        >controllers for their civilizations. I think that is what the druids
        >were....the proto-priesthood for this undiscovered lost civilization of
        >Celts. This avoids all the misconceptions by the Greeks, Romans, and
        >Christian bishops. The druids were trained to be the local elites with a
        >core of necessary skills and knowledge (college), but could also specialize
        >and cross train. This extra education would account for the classic "up to
        >twenty years of training" in the classical literature. They kept order by
        >enforcing the natural laws of the gods, I think. That would include the
        >natural order in planting, plant use, inter-personal and inter-tribal
        >relations, relations with the gods, weather, and every other thing. They
        >monitored the natural machinery of the world and life for the gods.
        >Naturally they would have to be able to observe, understand, translate and
        >make use of every thing in their environment. A thistle curry comb was no
        >different than a flight of birds or a rainbow to them. They were all part
        >of the natural machinery. Okay, enough of this, I am starting to have fun.
        >I guess that I have tried to back off and look at them from a different
        >perspective, in this case anthropologically. I don't see them as great
        >mystics (though some were, take the myrdden?) or nature freaks or
        >super-environmentalists. I think they did much as this group
        >does......experiment and learn from each other. In their plant lore I don't
        >think that they were much different from you....scholars, agronomists and
        >scientists. That is kind of a fun way to look at it. They were the handimen
        >and women of the gods. That is also one explanation of a priesthood.<

        I think they were probably similar to the Maori tohunga or his equivalent in
        African cultures, who was a priest (probably in a more or less shamanic
        sense), and also the repository of the tribe's lore and history, and as
        such, having a very high status in the tribe.


        >There is some thought that the classic Irish tales, such as the Tain bo
        >Cuailnge (?), may have come from the time of the Irish migrations in the
        >3rd or 4th century CE. lol A family album of a hostile takeover.<

        They do seem to refer to a time when the politics of Ireland were in a state
        of flux, and clan territories, etc., being established, so this could well
        be the case.

        Cheers,

        Sinech.


        * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
        An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil - The Truth Against the World





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