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Re: Ghee

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  • Alicia Carr Mitsch
    I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food.  So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 8, 2009

      I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food.  So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for one am interested in the response.  I have seen modern Ayuverdic manuals calling for the use of ghee mixed with sesame oil as a daily moisturizer/tonic.  The manuals specifically call for the concoction to be used on the soles of the feet every night before bed, in theory to help draw out the toxins in the body and help restore a sense of equilibrium.  Has anyone seen any period recipes in Arabic or Hindu texts calling for the use of ghee in such a fashion?

      Aldyth the Gentle

    • Chris Carpenter
      I know I participated in this discussion, but can I get you to at least TRY to bring this round to, if not medieval or renaissance herbalism/medical practice,
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 9, 2009
        "I know I participated in this discussion, but can I get you to at least TRY to bring this round to, if not medieval or renaissance herbalism/medical practice, at least HERBALISM?" (Zadweiga's quote)

        I am sorry if I annoyed you by going off on what seems like a tangent, Zadweiga, but I disagree. Herbalism is not about plants.. its supposed to be about pharmacy; how to treat illness's with natural remedies. In order for us to do this, we need to understand what those illness's are.. what caused them and how to address them. Yes, we must sometimes go to mundane knowledge and technology, but unless we do this, all we are doing is fishing in the dark about what the problem is and stabbing at solutions. I know this is period: to fish for solutions with no research; only period documented manuscripts, but some maladies are serious enough to use contemporary research to understand before we apply period herbalism. There are period solutions to Diabetes, and I will eventually venture them, but first we need to understand the causes of it or all we are doing is spouting references without actually practicing herbalism: period or not.

        Donato

        PS.. besides, this list is stagnant 90% of the time, whats wrong with having a little activity and discussing interesting off topic tangental matter? Its better than nothing. We have some of the most intelligent people I have ever encountered on this list, and I personally feel I have a lot to learn from all of you!
      • Chris Carpenter
        So much has been said, and although some may seem contradictory, its all very much interconeceted with lack of understanding being the weak point. I am going
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 9, 2009
          So much has been said, and although some may seem contradictory, its all very much interconeceted with lack of understanding being the weak point. I am going to start with very non period matter first, but it does all lead back to health problems that have always existed to one level or another.

          To start with, much of what I have brought up IS all about hydrogenated fats; not level of saturation or animal fat vs vegetable fat. To make any fat more "Storable", and transportable, humans figured out if they add a molecule of water to the fat lipid chain, it would congeal. They could also make it a lot cheaper if they dumped water in it. This is NOT part of the human diet and is very new, we are not able to easily digest this, but what does happen is.. let me approach this a little differently.

          Insulin is a hormone that acts exactly like a "Lock and Key" to the cells. It unlocks the cell and allows it to convert carbohydrate into energy. Hydrogenated fats floating in your system plug up the key holes and makes it so the insulin no longer works. The key no longer fits and the carbohydrates build up, and so does the insulin. This is called insulin resistance and insulin resistant hypoinsulinemea.

          When you become Insulin Resistant, instead of having easy energy reserves produced by the carbohydrates processed with the insulin through your cells, you instead convert the carbohydrates into fat; which is another process done with the insulin. I will repeat, insulin is building up to high levels in your system and converting carbohydrates (blood glucose) into fat. This fat is deposited around the body organs, someone mentioned "PotBelly syndrome" This is the way you can tell you are IR. AFTER yoru blood glucose is turned into fat, you convert it back into energy with the glycogen in your liver. There isn't much energy produced in this 3 step process and causes people to become overweight and sedentary. Insulin resistance and too many carbohydrates cause people to become obese... not too much fat.

          When you become insulin resistant, your carbohydrates build up in your bloodstream to high levels, and your body goes... LOTS OF BLOOD SUGAR I must get rid of it!!! Your pancreas, the organ that produces the insulin goes into full production mode to create the insulin needed to process that blood glucose that won't go away. Eventually the pancreas burns out. By definition, Diabetes = your pancreas has burned out. Type II is still producing small amounts of insulin, Type I is totally burned out. Notice how obesity is not in this equation, thats an old wives tale and very slim people can get Type II diabetes too.

          When your body is building up all this insulin, it makes the blood vessels brittle. I know this seems too simple, but its directly too much insulin in your system that causes aneurisms and pulmonary weakness.. yes. Heart disease.

          Lets go in a different direction which will connect back; cholesterol. The dietary cholesterol you eat doesn't digest very well and most of it actually flushes through your system never leaving your intestines. When you have carbohydrates being converted to fats, the byproduct of this are triglycerides and yes, Cholesterol. Not properly processing your carbohydrates is what deposits the cholesterol in your system and causes Heart disease. The one thing they found out about the Aitkins diet (I am not endorsing it, just stating facts) is that people who cut WAY back on their carbohydrates had all their triglycerides and lipids levels balance out to VERY healthy levels.. even if they ate nothing but bacon and cheese.

          I know this all is complicated, but it ties much together. There was mention that its carbohydrates that are the problem with diabetics; which is true, but what initially causes diabetes is caused by eating the wrong kinds of fats, hydrogenated. This causes, Insulin Resistance, also causes obesity and myriad cardio vascular problems.

          Until we understand this, we cannot apply herbal solutions to the problem.

          The basic solution though, and you have to start this with your child from birth, is no french fries, margerine or any other oils that have been converted into a solid fat by humans. It builds up and cannot be fixed once its done. Other than pancreatic stimulators and liver inhibitors what research is revealing to help IR are medications that are based upon...........

          CHROMIUM! (hear that... thats where you will discover herbal solutions to IR)

          The period herbal solutions to diabetes (I am diabetic, so I researched this), will seem DUH, and you can tell was applied in period intuitively.

          Cassia Cinnimon, which is commonly applied to almost everything with sugar in it. Its also commonly added to rice, which is the WORST carbohydrate for a diabetic.

          Green Tea, as I am sure I don't need to tell you, was commonly consumed with carbohydrates, be they with chineese food, or scones and crumpets in england. This too was a primary diabetic solution.

          These 2 remedies may not have been directly applied for what was called "Sweet Urine", but entire societies used them as dietary staples intuitively combining them with those foods insulin resistant people should avoid the most.

          See, I told you I would bring you back to topic....;O)
        • Rosie
          ... I guess not :) Nawojka
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 10, 2009
            > I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food.  So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for one am interested in the response.  I have seen modern Ayuverdic manuals calling for the use of ghee mixed with sesame oil as a daily moisturizer/tonic.  The manuals specifically call for the concoction to be used on the soles of the feet every night before bed, in theory to help draw out the toxins in the body and help restore a sense of equilibrium.  Has anyone seen any period recipes in Arabic or Hindu texts calling for the use of ghee in such a fashion?
            >
            > Aldyth the Gentle

            I guess not :)

            Nawojka
          • jack hollandbeck
            Howdy all. I have to put my 1.73 cents (devalued) in. This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. The Tarim mummies were not Celts . They may have gotten that stigma
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 12, 2009

              Howdy all. I have to put my 1.73 cents (devalued) in. This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. The Tarim mummies were not Celts . They may have gotten that stigma from their reddish hair, and some of their textiles were herringbone weave or with plaid patterns. These are simply early textiles. As for their height, that could be due to diet. Europeans tended to be bigger the farther north they lived and that is assumed to be from the higher percentage of meat in their diets, much as the Japanese began to get taller after WWII, and their adoption of a more meaty American diet. On the whole, the ancients were shorter than the average European of today. The Roman male averaged 5'5''-5'7", the British male a bit less, Gallic males were up to 5'10" and Germans around 6'0". However the Mediterranean males were shorter. The Greeks averaged around 5'3" (the dreaded Spartans were peewees) and Palestinians around 5'0". Compare this with the 5'3"-5'6" Neandertal males. On the whole, they were shorter and slighter. People of the Mediterranean Basin ate more veggies and seafood because it was easier to garden there than farther north. Now to period, go check out the armor collections for the middle ages and Renaissance. The knightly class (aristocracy) had the best diets available in their times. However the armor on display are not for big, modern professional atheletes. Those men were still almost average in height compared to today, and much slighter. They also had chicken legs. I don't know how they could walk without calves. Anyway, there are always exceptions such as Charlemagne and Henry VIII. As for the Tarim mummies being Celts, I don't think so. (proper Celtic studies only began after WWII) They were broadly simultaneous to the Halstatt Culture, or the first true Celtic peoples. Even in this celtic is a linguistic group with shared art and technology, which was also shared by non-celtic groups (such as some of the plastic plants and animals used in decoration, and much of the plant imagery was from the Greeks.  The Tarim mummy people probably spoke and Indo-Iranian rather than Indo-European language.To speak of a Celtic Culture is inappropriate but oh so popular. Celtic culture is very modern phenomenon, and I suspect has some linkages back to the 18th-19th centuries notion of the noble savage. The first of this phenomenon may have been the Scottish plaid craze that took hold in Victorian England. Remember the clearances following the 1740 revolt of Bonnie Prince Charlie, and all the English aristocrats went north to take over the lands, ejecting the Scots and their cattle for sheep. It was also Victorian England which glorified the Highland regiments and their kilts. Tartans were invented, as well as regularizing clans. There were no clan tartans before Victoria. Nowadays, Celtic culture has spread from reference to the Irish out to the Scots (I am Clan Henderson). Today the last of these linguistically Celtic European peoples are the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Manx, Cornish and Bretons. There are other groups in Eastern Europe and the Middle East (Galatians in Turkey come to mind). No one used the term Celt as official until very recently. Up until very recently these groups were referred to by tribe (ancient) or region (medieval and Renaissance). Sorry for the essay, but I have made some study of this issue. The issue is not helped by all the Renaissance festivals which really muddy up the Celts. I love the fairs, but they are not history. The participants my be historically accurate, but the venue is not. I am sure there is a similar contradiction with the Robin Hood festivals in England. Unfortunately, the word "Celtic" has a popular meaning, as in Celtic Culture, but that is artificial and inaccurate. The Tarim were not Celts. They just had red hair, long legs, wore plaid sometimes and spoke an Iranian dialect. For the medieval and Renaissance periods just call them Irish, Scots, Manx, Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. That would be historically accurate.
              Jack
              ps There is archaeological evidence that the Tarim mummy people (long head European types) interacted peacefully and intermarried with round headed Asian types. This does not necessarily debunk the violence of the ancestors. It does set a nice precedent.



              On the medieval side: The Tarim mummies, for those who aren't familiar
              with them, are a group of natural mummies found in the Tarim basin of
              China. Despite being Bronze age and being buried long before anyone
              from the west was supposed to (by our knowledge) traveling that far
              eastward, they appear to be of Celtic origin and the adults were over 6
              ft. tall. There is evidence that they actually introduced writing and
              chariots to China. So the myth that our medieval ancestors were shorter
              than us is once again debunked. The myth that our medieval ancestors
              lived shorter lifespans is also debunked by these and other finds. The
              question is do you think it was diet?
              Avacyn







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            • jack hollandbeck
              mom just used it for cooking. I did use to get warm olive oil in my ears for an ear ache, though. Jack To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com From:
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 13, 2009
                mom just used it for cooking. I did use to get warm olive oil in my ears for an ear ache, though.
                Jack


                To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                From: a1979carr@...
                Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 18:30:25 -0800
                Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: Ghee




                I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food.  So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for one am interested in the response.  I have seen modern Ayuverdic manuals calling for the use of ghee mixed with sesame oil as a daily moisturizer/tonic.  The manuals specifically call for the concoction to be used on the soles of the feet every night before bed, in theory to help draw out the toxins in the body and help restore a sense of equilibrium.  Has anyone seen any period recipes in Arabic or Hindu texts calling for the use of ghee in such a fashion?

                Aldyth the Gentle





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              • Amanda
                I have come across web pages that use ghee in ointments. http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/agnihotra/preparation.htm is one I came across just type ghee
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 14, 2009
                  I have come across web pages that use ghee in ointments.
                  http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/agnihotra/preparation.htm
                  is one I came across just type "ghee ointment" on yahoo. I've never personally tried it.

                  Delara al-Badawiyya

                  --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Has anyone ever tried making ointments using ghee as the fat?
                  >
                  > Nawojka
                  >
                • gianottadallafiora
                  FYI; just saw a program about the Tarim mummies, in which genetic testing was done. The results were extremely interesting. Turns out the Tarim were more
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 23, 2009
                    FYI; just saw a program about the Tarim mummies, in which genetic testing was done.

                    The results were extremely interesting. Turns out the Tarim were more analagous to today's modern American culture; genetically, they were a melting pot of Asian, Eurasian, and European stock. They were trading and intermarrying with all the cultures that they encountered/passed through/etc., it seems.

                    YIS,
                    Adelisa di Salerno

                    --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Howdy all. I have to put my 1.73 cents (devalued) in. This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. The Tarim mummies were not Celts . They may have gotten that stigma from their reddish hair, and some of their textiles were herringbone weave or with plaid patterns. These are simply early textiles. As for their height, that could be due to diet. Europeans tended to be bigger the farther north they lived and that is assumed to be from the higher percentage of meat in their diets, much as the Japanese began to get taller after WWII, and their adoption of a more meaty American diet. On the whole, the ancients were shorter than the average European of today. The Roman male averaged 5'5''-5'7", the British male a bit less, Gallic males were up to 5'10" and Germans around 6'0". However the Mediterranean males were shorter. The Greeks averaged around 5'3" (the dreaded Spartans were peewees) and Palestinians around 5'0". Compare this with the 5'3"-5'6" Neandertal males. On the whole, they were shorter and slighter. People of the Mediterranean Basin ate more veggies and seafood because it was easier to garden there than farther north. Now to period, go check out the armor collections for the middle ages and Renaissance. The knightly class (aristocracy) had the best diets available in their times. However the armor on display are not for big, modern professional atheletes. Those men were still almost average in height compared to today, and much slighter. They also had chicken legs. I don't know how they could walk without calves. Anyway, there are always exceptions such as Charlemagne and Henry VIII. As for the Tarim mummies being Celts, I don't think so. (proper Celtic studies only began after WWII) They were broadly simultaneous to the Halstatt Culture, or the first true Celtic peoples. Even in this celtic is a linguistic group with shared art and technology, which was also shared by non-celtic groups (such as some of the plastic plants and animals used in decoration, and much of the plant imagery was from the Greeks. The Tarim mummy people probably spoke and Indo-Iranian rather than Indo-European language.To speak of a Celtic Culture is inappropriate but oh so popular. Celtic culture is very modern phenomenon, and I suspect has some linkages back to the 18th-19th centuries notion of the noble savage. The first of this phenomenon may have been the Scottish plaid craze that took hold in Victorian England. Remember the clearances following the 1740 revolt of Bonnie Prince Charlie, and all the English aristocrats went north to take over the lands, ejecting the Scots and their cattle for sheep. It was also Victorian England which glorified the Highland regiments and their kilts. Tartans were invented, as well as regularizing clans. There were no clan tartans before Victoria. Nowadays, Celtic culture has spread from reference to the Irish out to the Scots (I am Clan Henderson). Today the last of these linguistically Celtic European peoples are the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Manx, Cornish and Bretons. There are other groups in Eastern Europe and the Middle East (Galatians in Turkey come to mind). No one used the term Celt as official until very recently. Up until very recently these groups were referred to by tribe (ancient) or region (medieval and Renaissance). Sorry for the essay, but I have made some study of this issue. The issue is not helped by all the Renaissance festivals which really muddy up the Celts. I love the fairs, but they are not history. The participants my be historically accurate, but the venue is not. I am sure there is a similar contradiction with the Robin Hood festivals in England. Unfortunately, the word "Celtic" has a popular meaning, as in Celtic Culture, but that is artificial and inaccurate. The Tarim were not Celts. They just had red hair, long legs, wore plaid sometimes and spoke an Iranian dialect. For the medieval and Renaissance periods just call them Irish, Scots, Manx, Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. That would be historically accurate.
                    > Jack
                    > ps There is archaeological evidence that the Tarim mummy people (long head European types) interacted peacefully and intermarried with round headed Asian types. This does not necessarily debunk the violence of the ancestors. It does set a nice precedent.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On the medieval side: The Tarim mummies, for those who aren't familiar
                    >
                    > with them, are a group of natural mummies found in the Tarim basin of
                    >
                    > China. Despite being Bronze age and being buried long before anyone
                    >
                    > from the west was supposed to (by our knowledge) traveling that far
                    >
                    > eastward, they appear to be of Celtic origin and the adults were over 6
                    >
                    > ft. tall. There is evidence that they actually introduced writing and
                    >
                    > chariots to China. So the myth that our medieval ancestors were shorter
                    >
                    > than us is once again debunked. The myth that our medieval ancestors
                    >
                    > lived shorter lifespans is also debunked by these and other finds. The
                    >
                    > question is do you think it was diet?
                    >
                    > Avacyn
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > _________________________________________________________________
                    > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                    > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
                    >
                  • jack hollandbeck
                    yup, and if I recall don t seem to have a big war culture yet. They did have a woman shaman, though. Jack ...
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 23, 2009
                      yup, and if I recall don't seem to have a big war culture yet. They did have a woman shaman, though.
                      Jack

                      > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: christianetrue@...
                      > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:34:27 +0000
                      > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] The Tarim (was Re: Ghee)
                      >
                      > FYI; just saw a program about the Tarim mummies, in which genetic testing was done.
                      >
                      > The results were extremely interesting. Turns out the Tarim were more analagous to today's modern American culture; genetically, they were a melting pot of Asian, Eurasian, and European stock. They were trading and intermarrying with all the cultures that they encountered/passed through/etc., it seems.
                      >
                      > YIS,
                      > Adelisa di Salerno
                      >
                      > --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Howdy all. I have to put my 1.73 cents (devalued) in. This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. The Tarim mummies were not Celts . They may have gotten that stigma from their reddish hair, and some of their textiles were herringbone weave or with plaid patterns. These are simply early textiles. As for their height, that could be due to diet. Europeans tended to be bigger the farther north they lived and that is assumed to be from the higher percentage of meat in their diets, much as the Japanese began to get taller after WWII, and their adoption of a more meaty American diet. On the whole, the ancients were shorter than the average European of today. The Roman male averaged 5'5''-5'7", the British male a bit less, Gallic males were up to 5'10" and Germans around 6'0". However the Mediterranean males were shorter. The Greeks averaged around 5'3" (the dreaded Spartans were peewees) and Palestinians around 5'0". Compare this with the 5'3"-5'6" Neandertal males. On the whole, they were shorter and slighter. People of the Mediterranean Basin ate more veggies and seafood because it was easier to garden there than farther north. Now to period, go check out the armor collections for the middle ages and Renaissance. The knightly class (aristocracy) had the best diets available in their times. However the armor on display are not for big, modern professional atheletes. Those men were still almost average in height compared to today, and much slighter. They also had chicken legs. I don't know how they could walk without calves. Anyway, there are always exceptions such as Charlemagne and Henry VIII. As for the Tarim mummies being Celts, I don't think so. (proper Celtic studies only began after WWII) They were broadly simultaneous to the Halstatt Culture, or the first true Celtic peoples. Even in this celtic is a linguistic group with shared art and technology, which was also shared by non-celtic groups (such as some of the plastic plants and animals used in decoration, and much of the plant imagery was from the Greeks. The Tarim mummy people probably spoke and Indo-Iranian rather than Indo-European language.To speak of a Celtic Culture is inappropriate but oh so popular. Celtic culture is very modern phenomenon, and I suspect has some linkages back to the 18th-19th centuries notion of the noble savage. The first of this phenomenon may have been the Scottish plaid craze that took hold in Victorian England. Remember the clearances following the 1740 revolt of Bonnie Prince Charlie, and all the English aristocrats went north to take over the lands, ejecting the Scots and their cattle for sheep. It was also Victorian England which glorified the Highland regiments and their kilts. Tartans were invented, as well as regularizing clans. There were no clan tartans before Victoria. Nowadays, Celtic culture has spread from reference to the Irish out to the Scots (I am Clan Henderson). Today the last of these linguistically Celtic European peoples are the Irish, Scots, Welsh, Manx, Cornish and Bretons. There are other groups in Eastern Europe and the Middle East (Galatians in Turkey come to mind). No one used the term Celt as official until very recently. Up until very recently these groups were referred to by tribe (ancient) or region (medieval and Renaissance). Sorry for the essay, but I have made some study of this issue. The issue is not helped by all the Renaissance festivals which really muddy up the Celts. I love the fairs, but they are not history. The participants my be historically accurate, but the venue is not. I am sure there is a similar contradiction with the Robin Hood festivals in England. Unfortunately, the word "Celtic" has a popular meaning, as in Celtic Culture, but that is artificial and inaccurate. The Tarim were not Celts. They just had red hair, long legs, wore plaid sometimes and spoke an Iranian dialect. For the medieval and Renaissance periods just call them Irish, Scots, Manx, Welsh, Cornish and Bretons. That would be historically accurate.
                      > > Jack
                      > > ps There is archaeological evidence that the Tarim mummy people (long head European types) interacted peacefully and intermarried with round headed Asian types. This does not necessarily debunk the violence of the ancestors. It does set a nice precedent.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On the medieval side: The Tarim mummies, for those who aren't familiar
                      > >
                      > > with them, are a group of natural mummies found in the Tarim basin of
                      > >
                      > > China. Despite being Bronze age and being buried long before anyone
                      > >
                      > > from the west was supposed to (by our knowledge) traveling that far
                      > >
                      > > eastward, they appear to be of Celtic origin and the adults were over 6
                      > >
                      > > ft. tall. There is evidence that they actually introduced writing and
                      > >
                      > > chariots to China. So the myth that our medieval ancestors were shorter
                      > >
                      > > than us is once again debunked. The myth that our medieval ancestors
                      > >
                      > > lived shorter lifespans is also debunked by these and other finds. The
                      > >
                      > > question is do you think it was diet?
                      > >
                      > > Avacyn
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > _________________________________________________________________
                      > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                      > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                    • gianottadallafiora
                      And bringing it back to the herbal topic, another shaman who was found with marijuana! Also a hat decorated with cowrie shells from the Indian ocean. Drop this
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 25, 2009
                        And bringing it back to the herbal topic, another shaman who was found with marijuana!

                        Also a hat decorated with cowrie shells from the Indian ocean. Drop this tribal-hippie dude into a cafe on Valencia Street in the Mission in San Francisco, and no one would probably give him a second glance. <grin>

                        Here's an article I found that talks about him and his "stash":

                        http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Researchers_find_oldest-ever_stash_of_marijuana.html

                        Adelisa

                        --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > yup, and if I recall don't seem to have a big war culture yet. They did have a woman shaman, though.
                        > Jack
                      • perriscott
                        Nothing Period per se, but as an arm-chair mythologist (ie. Comparative Religion studies), with a bent towards herbalism, I seem to recall that this
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                          Nothing "Period" per se, but as an 'arm-chair' mythologist (ie. Comparative Religion studies), with a bent towards herbalism, I seem to recall that this concoction (or something similar) was used by Tibetan monks to anoint the ground as a blessing for the souls of those that might be crushed under foot by accident (insects/worms), or just as a blessing to honor the earth.

                          The exact reference escapes me at the moment--90% of my [text] books and belongings are in storage at the moment after my Big Move (now sleeping in a friends spare bedroom). Will try to locate it if anyone is interested.

                          Trying to stay marginally on topic,
                          Elspeth



                          --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food.  So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for one am interested in the response.  I have seen modern Ayuverdic manuals calling for the use of ghee mixed with sesame oil as a daily moisturizer/tonic.  The manuals specifically call for the concoction to be used on the soles of the feet every night before bed, in theory to help draw out the toxins in the body and help restore a sense of equilibrium.  Has anyone seen any period recipes in Arabic or Hindu texts calling for the use of ghee in such a fashion?
                          > >
                          > > Aldyth the Gentle
                          >
                          > I guess not :)
                          >
                          > Nawojka
                          >
                        • jack hollandbeck
                          Cool. Throwing a little grass on the sweat lodge fire would sure help with bilocation, a specialist trick of shamans. This also begs the question.......Since
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                            Cool. Throwing a little grass on the sweat lodge fire would sure help with bilocation, a specialist trick of shamans. This also begs the question.......Since the article did NOT mention any shamanic materials, was the cannabis used medicinally, and so part of a high status warrior's kit (archery equipment and harp were in the burial). There is a good chance that he was a paleo surfer dude who got stranded after the flood. lol
                            Jack

                            > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                            > From: christianetrue@...
                            > Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:59:35 +0000
                            > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] The Tarim (was Re: Ghee)
                            >
                            > And bringing it back to the herbal topic, another shaman who was found with marijuana!
                            >
                            > Also a hat decorated with cowrie shells from the Indian ocean. Drop this tribal-hippie dude into a cafe on Valencia Street in the Mission in San Francisco, and no one would probably give him a second glance. <grin>
                            >
                            > Here's an article I found that talks about him and his "stash":
                            >
                            > http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Researchers_find_oldest-ever_stash_of_marijuana.html
                            >
                            > Adelisa
                            >
                            > --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > yup, and if I recall don't seem to have a big war culture yet. They did have a woman shaman, though.
                            > > Jack
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > -------------------------------------------------------------
                            > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                            > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                            > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
                            >
                            > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
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                          • jack hollandbeck
                            Spirituality and religious practices associated with herbalism is not discussed often. I would be interested. Don t hurt yourself trying to get at your
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                              Spirituality and religious practices associated with herbalism is not discussed often. I would be interested. Don't hurt yourself trying to get at your library. Take care of business first, this can wait.
                              Jack

                              > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: DamePosintella@...
                              > Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:37:07 +0000
                              > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: Ghee
                              >
                              > Nothing "Period" per se, but as an 'arm-chair' mythologist (ie. Comparative Religion studies), with a bent towards herbalism, I seem to recall that this concoction (or something similar) was used by Tibetan monks to anoint the ground as a blessing for the souls of those that might be crushed under foot by accident (insects/worms), or just as a blessing to honor the earth.
                              >
                              > The exact reference escapes me at the moment--90% of my [text] books and belongings are in storage at the moment after my Big Move (now sleeping in a friends spare bedroom). Will try to locate it if anyone is interested.
                              >
                              > Trying to stay marginally on topic,
                              > Elspeth
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food.  So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for one am interested in the response.  I have seen modern Ayuverdic manuals calling for the use of ghee mixed with sesame oil as a daily moisturizer/tonic.  The manuals specifically call for the concoction to be used on the soles of the feet every night before bed, in theory to help draw out the toxins in the body and help restore a sense of equilibrium.  Has anyone seen any period recipes in Arabic or Hindu texts calling for the use of ghee in such a fashion?
                              > > >
                              > > > Aldyth the Gentle
                              > >
                              > > I guess not :)
                              > >
                              > > Nawojka
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > -------------------------------------------------------------
                              > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                              > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                              > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
                              >
                              > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                              > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
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                              >
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                            • jack hollandbeck
                              Spirituality and religious practices associated with herbalism is not discussed often. I would be interested. Don t hurt yourself trying to get at your
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 26, 2009
                                Spirituality and religious practices associated with herbalism is not discussed often. I would be interested. Don't hurt yourself trying to get at your library. Take care of business first, this can wait.
                                Jack

                                > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: DamePosintella@...
                                > Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:37:07 +0000
                                > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: Ghee
                                >
                                > Nothing "Period" per se, but as an 'arm-chair' mythologist (ie. Comparative Religion studies), with a bent towards herbalism, I seem to recall that this concoction (or something similar) was used by Tibetan monks to anoint the ground as a blessing for the souls of those that might be crushed under foot by accident (insects/worms), or just as a blessing to honor the earth.
                                >
                                > The exact reference escapes me at the moment--90% of my [text] books and belongings are in storage at the moment after my Big Move (now sleeping in a friends spare bedroom). Will try to locate it if anyone is interested.
                                >
                                > Trying to stay marginally on topic,
                                > Elspeth
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food.  So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for one am interested in the response.  I have seen modern Ayuverdic manuals calling for the use of ghee mixed with sesame oil as a daily moisturizer/tonic.  The manuals specifically call for the concoction to be used on the soles of the feet every night before bed, in theory to help draw out the toxins in the body and help restore a sense of equilibrium.  Has anyone seen any period recipes in Arabic or Hindu texts calling for the use of ghee in such a fashion?
                                > > >
                                > > > Aldyth the Gentle
                                > >
                                > > I guess not :)
                                > >
                                > > Nawojka
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > -------------------------------------------------------------
                                > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                                > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                                > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
                                >
                                > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                                > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
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                                >
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                                >
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                              • perriscott
                                I don t generally post religious type posts unless it is an anthropological quote -- too many toes get offended and it tends to get one booted from a List--
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 27, 2009
                                  I don't generally post "religious" type posts unless it is an "anthropological quote"-- too many toes get offended and it tends to get one booted from a List-- unless it is a List forum set up for such discussions.

                                  Just an "interesting" and "this-reminds-me-of" kind of observation.
                                  Ointments and such are pretty universal from 10,000BC to 2009AD and whether they were used for "shamanic" medicine or prescription acne meds is pretty much a matter of time and place context. Unfortunately, since _we_ didn't live back then, [almost] all of what-we-think-we-know is based on theoretical conjecture-- heck, we might even be dead on accurate, but without actual records, we will never know.

                                  Health,
                                  Elspeth McArran



                                  --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Spirituality and religious practices associated with herbalism is not discussed often. I would be interested. Don't hurt yourself trying to get at your library. Take care of business first, this can wait.
                                  > Jack
                                  >
                                  > > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > From: DamePosintella@...
                                  > > Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:37:07 +0000
                                  > > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: Ghee
                                  > >
                                  > > Nothing "Period" per se, but as an 'arm-chair' mythologist (ie. Comparative Religion studies), with a bent towards herbalism, I seem to recall that this concoction (or something similar) was used by Tibetan monks to anoint the ground as a blessing for the souls of those that might be crushed under foot by accident (insects/worms), or just as a blessing to honor the earth.
                                  > >
                                  > > The exact reference escapes me at the moment--90% of my [text] books and belongings are in storage at the moment after my Big Move (now sleeping in a friends spare bedroom). Will try to locate it if anyone is interested.
                                  > >
                                  > > Trying to stay marginally on topic,
                                  > > Elspeth
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, "Rosie" <Rosie_0801@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > > I believe the original question was about recipes using ghee for ointments, not food. So far no one has addressed that particular question, and I know I for one am interested in the response. I have seen modern Ayuverdic manuals calling for the use of ghee mixed with sesame oil as a daily moisturizer/tonic. The manuals specifically call for the concoction to be used on the soles of the feet every night before bed, in theory to help draw out the toxins in the body and help restore a sense of equilibrium. Has anyone seen any period recipes in Arabic or Hindu texts calling for the use of ghee in such a fashion?
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Aldyth the Gentle
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I guess not :)
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Nawojka
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > -------------------------------------------------------------
                                  > > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                                  > > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                                  > > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
                                  > >
                                  > > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                                  > > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
                                  > > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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