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Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: (unknown)

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  • Kirk Spencer
    Essential oil from Lavendula Officianalis has an LD50 for both oral and dermal use of 5g/kg, source the Opdyke Food Cosmetics and Toxicology study from
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 31, 2009
      Essential oil from Lavendula Officianalis has an LD50 for both oral and dermal use of >5g/kg, source the Opdyke "Food Cosmetics and Toxicology" study from 1976.  (For the few who don't catch the acronym, 50% of the test animals died if they got more than 5 grams for each kilogram of animal weight.)  The same study says the oils from Lavendula Dentata and Lavendula Augustifolia have the same LD50.

      On the other hand, I have found two MSDS of Lavender oil, one for Augustifolia and one for Dentata, that give an oral LD50 of 3800-3900 mg/kg.  Neither cites source for the toxicology test.  Allegedly (note found, follow-on not yet located) in 1996 the FDA initiated another series of tests of several essential oils to update the toxicology.

      Kirklin


      From: ladypeyton <ladypeyton@...>
      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:43:42 AM
      Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: (unknown)

       


      > You know, I've been studying this sort of thing for a while, and I'm
      > not aware of specific toxicity of any variety of the complete plant
      > material of lavender species. I know that lavendula essential oils can
      > trigger allergy and asthmatic attacks in susceptible individuals, and
      > different [expressed or distilled] essential oils can be considered
      > more or less safe depending on their major constituents. ..
      >
      > Perhaps I missed this earlier in the conversation, Can you tell us a
      > little bit more about the dangers of consuming the wrong kind of
      > lavender?

      I would like to know as well since all the research I did when I was in the herb selling business led me to believe that French Lavender is absolutely edible and I've never exibited any adverse symptoms the few times I have ingested it.

      Peyton


    • Shield of Peace
      My (admittedly dated) 1998 PDR for Herbal Medicine only lists Lavendula Angustifola, which has no warnings against it. It does say it is not to be confused
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 31, 2009
        My (admittedly dated) 1998 PDR for Herbal Medicine only lists
        Lavendula Angustifola, which has no warnings against it. It does say
        it is not to be confused with the other two varieties, but lists no
        information for those varieties.

        Aquilina
      • audreytaylor13
        ... Always keep in mind that any herb, ingested in more than small quantities, can cause symptoms of poisoning. Even such simple sounding herbs as basil,
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 4, 2009
          --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, "ladypeyton" <ladypeyton@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          Always keep in mind that any herb, ingested in more than small quantities, can cause symptoms of poisoning. Even such simple sounding herbs as basil, thyme or sage. If you ingest too much then you can be poisoned. How much is too much? Well I would say that for the most part more than a 1/4 cup of any herb would be too much. I use 3 tablespoons of fresh rosemary in a cake. I have a recipe for lavendar cookies around somewhere, and I knot that it only calls for one tablespoon of the buds. I don't know about the leaf. Of course pesto is a mixture of basil, parsley and garlic but one tends to not use more than a tablepoon or so of that at a time. Or at least I don't, and I love pesto. Just I think the best frame of reference is to remember. With herbs more is not usually better.
        • Mindslashed
          This is true with herbs we use on a daily basis for culinary purposes, when we get into medical herbs there is far for to consider! dosage is important of
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 4, 2009
            This is true with herbs we use on a daily basis for culinary purposes, when we get into medical herbs there is far for to consider! dosage is important of course, too little gleans no effect, and too much can be a trip to the emergency ward!
            Along with dose when taking herbs for medicinal purposes you also have to consider allergies, and current medications.
            For instance Chamomile, one of my favorite herbs, is considered fairly harmless, being a gentle de-stresser when drunk as a tea, and  powerful muscle relaxer when used as a compress. This herb is related to the common allergy-weed ragweed, and in certain people can cause the same symptoms! 
            i'm also reminded of nutmeg, which at one point was the most valuable commodity in the world being worth more than gold, is well know for its hallucinatory effects in large doses and is often reccomened that pregnet women abstain from it.

            thank you for bringing up this topic milady. :)
            in this modern mundane world of "being-green" i often have to remind my mundane friends that natural isnt always better. remember, nightshade and hermlock are natural too!

            -Rune


            --- On Tue, 8/4/09, audreytaylor13 <AudreyTaylor13@...> wrote:

            From: audreytaylor13 <AudreyTaylor13@...>
            Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: (unknown)
            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 8:30 AM

             

            --- In SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com, "ladypeyton" <ladypeyton@ ...> wrote:
            >
            >
            Always keep in mind that any herb, ingested in more than small quantities, can cause symptoms of poisoning. Even such simple sounding herbs as basil, thyme or sage. If you ingest too much then you can be poisoned. How much is too much? Well I would say that for the most part more than a 1/4 cup of any herb would be too much. I use 3 tablespoons of fresh rosemary in a cake. I have a recipe for lavendar cookies around somewhere, and I knot that it only calls for one tablespoon of the buds. I don't know about the leaf. Of course pesto is a mixture of basil, parsley and garlic but one tends to not use more than a tablepoon or so of that at a time. Or at least I don't, and I love pesto. Just I think the best frame of reference is to remember. With herbs more is not usually better.


          • Amy Provost
            All lavenders can be used medicinally, but angustifolia is the most common. Personally, I grow an angustifolia variety called Munstead, which thrives in my
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 10, 2009
              All lavenders can be used medicinally, but angustifolia is the most common.  Personally, I grow an angustifolia variety called Munstead, which thrives in my zone 4 garden.  Although it's usually sold as English lavender, it was actually brought to the region by the Romans and is not a true native to the islands.  Angustifolia was formerly known as officinalis, spica, or vera.  I believe concerns with internal usage are mostly related to the essential oil, which should be used externally only.  I'm not aware of any cases of toxicity involving ingestion of the plant material as either food or infusion.  If I include it in a tea blend, it's generally not more than 1/8 part.

              Ameline

              On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:48 AM, chris carpenter <donat0@...> wrote:
               

              I am glad you made sure you ordered the correct thing, but I was concerned because a response was made by a vendor saying thats all she carried,(L. augustifolia) for convenience, and that she feels the one variety is good for all purposes.  Its not.  There are about 5 varieties in use, and each one evolved in a very different region and climate.  They developed differently with different oils becoming dominant. 
               
              Kashmir Lavender ,(L. augustifolia)  grows high in the Pakistani mountains, and has extreme cold-hot swing, and high elevations. This makes a very hardy plant that would evolve preservative oils
               
              French Lavender (L officianalis) has moderate and very sunny environments that encourages more visual and perfume oriented qualities to attract pollinators because its such prime breeding grounds.
               
              English Lavender (L angustafolia) comes from the moors of Britain, and evolved in cool damp environment that needed human help, and thus developed qualities humans find beneficial,  being garden and consumption safe. 
               
              I am not sure what qualities the other varieties of Lavender would have or why, but I didn't venture this part of the conversation to discuss my love of Lavender.  There is a very real danger in consuming the wrong kind of Lavender, and there is a very real reason why one would choose different lavenders for different purposes.  I listed the 3 kinds so people can get the right kind for their purpose. 
               
              Kashmir is used for ointments and salves, French is used for perfumes, and English is used for cooking. 




              --
              www.crookedwall.org
              www.bthumbstudios.com
            • Vivienne Kestrel
              Hi Audrey, Just wondering if you d be willing to share your lavendar cookie recipe? I have a ton of lavendar this year and that would be a fabulous way to use
              Message 6 of 11 , Aug 10, 2009
                Hi Audrey,
                 
                Just wondering if you'd be willing to share your lavendar cookie recipe?  I have a ton of lavendar this year and that would be a fabulous way to use it!
                 
                Regards,
                Vivienne

                On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 9:30 AM, audreytaylor13 <AudreyTaylor13@...> wrote:
                 

                --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, "ladypeyton" <ladypeyton@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                Always keep in mind that any herb, ingested in more than small quantities, can cause symptoms of poisoning. Even such simple sounding herbs as basil, thyme or sage. If you ingest too much then you can be poisoned. How much is too much? Well I would say that for the most part more than a 1/4 cup of any herb would be too much. I use 3 tablespoons of fresh rosemary in a cake. I have a recipe for lavendar cookies around somewhere, and I knot that it only calls for one tablespoon of the buds. I don't know about the leaf. Of course pesto is a mixture of basil, parsley and garlic but one tends to not use more than a tablepoon or so of that at a time. Or at least I don't, and I love pesto. Just I think the best frame of reference is to remember. With herbs more is not usually better.



              • catherine_dewinter
                Aquilina, do you recommend the Herbal PDR? I know that Germany rather than U.S. is where study is happening. eBay has some 2000, 2004 editions that are not
                Message 7 of 11 , Aug 17, 2009
                  Aquilina, do you recommend the Herbal PDR?
                  I know that Germany rather than U.S. is where study is happening.
                  eBay has some 2000, 2004 editions that are not very much money, thinking of ordering one.

                  Catherine de Winter


                  --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, Shield of Peace <randgrithr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My (admittedly dated) 1998 PDR for Herbal Medicine only lists
                  > Lavendula Angustifola, which has no warnings against it. It does say
                  > it is not to be confused with the other two varieties, but lists no
                  > information for those varieties.
                  >
                  > Aquilina
                  >
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