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RE: [SCA-Herbalist] medical associations

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  • jack hollandbeck
    Thank you, sir, I will do as you advise. To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com From: aricia@sbcglobal.net Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:05:37 -0700 Subject: Re:
    Message 1 of 9 , May 5, 2009
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      Thank you, sir, I will do as you advise.


      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      From: aricia@...
      Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:05:37 -0700
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] medical associations



      There are tons and tons of publications and books that discuss this.  Look into Cultural Anthro books.  Many herbs are associated with religions of the ancient and medical cultures.  Not a hard subject to research.  Look up for example, Ancient Roman, traditions and religion and you will find lots of stuff.
       


      --- On Mon, 4/27/09, storm85213 <original_xman@...> wrote:
      From: storm85213 <original_xman@...>
      Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] medical associations
      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 4:56 PM

      I have another question, but first a preface so you have probably guessed that I am going to be in trouble again: I believe that EVERYTHING in the universe can be talked about, and that is how I get into trouble. lol My question is this:

      Can anyone help me out and point me to source to find some of the magical, spiritual, etc. perceived special properties associated with plants and herbs?

      In the ancient world and up through the Renaissance, folk remedies and trained physicians used ingredients because of the supposed special properties that each was thought to have (including salt in the baptismal font to preserve the soul). The most well known would be Hippocrates four humours, which became the scientific model for the Greco-Romans to understand their world (and was in use up through the 1800's). Whether these properties are called magic or science does not matter because our ancestors believed in them. In my project I quickly learned that to be fair and realistic to each aspect of faith and belief I would have to fall in love with each one as they came (Coptic, Orthodox, heresies, Judaism, shamanism, paganism, etc.) My question is not off topic. It is just that this is not talked about anymore. My question is not about how to be a witch or a magus or theurge. I simply need help on where to start this new line of research for my project. Thanks again.
      Jack





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    • jack hollandbeck
      I found these on Amazon.com. Are these books worthy resources? My concerns are that they, despite titles, may be redo s of each other and so are redundant, and
      Message 2 of 9 , May 5, 2009
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        I found these on Amazon.com. Are these books worthy resources? My concerns are that they, despite titles, may be redo's of each other and so are redundant, and if the medicinal books are based on traditional ways and lore or deal with modern botany/chemistry. I have a lot of work to do and really don't want to spend money and time on redundancy (which can be useful in research). ancient herbalism is not a primary goal of my research on society and culture, but it was an important aspect of society and culture. I do want to do it right.
        Cunningham's Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs (Llewellyn's Sourcebook Series) by Scott Cunningham
        The Way of Herbs by Michael Tierra
        Rodale's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Herbs by Claire Kowalchik and William H. Hylton
        The Complete Herb Book by Jekka McVicar and Penelope Hobhouse
        The Herbal Medicine-Maker's Handbook: A Home Manual by James Green and Ajana

        as always,
        Jack


        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        From: cageytlc@...
        Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:00:14 -0600
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] medical associations



        Who here doesn't know some of the Language of Herbs?  Shakespeare aside, such traditional knowledge has always been part of herbalist's training.  Even if they don't train as witches, it's important for translation purposes, if not simply the history of our craft.  There are few modern herb books that don't list at least some of the old correspondences.  "The Herb Book" by John Lust, a bible on the subject, has a whole back section on them, esp. medieval.  Commoners of the time would have been familiar with such allegory in herbs and plants, and any reCreation requires at least the most widely known ones...
         
        One book on cultural anthro of herbs that I just got myself was "Cosmetics & Perfumes in the Roman World by Susan Stewart ".  Any discussion of medieval that is not folklore is based on classical texts, which would have been standard reading by the literate of the time.  Of course, perfumes, cosmetics, medicines and even poisons were all categorized under the same name in both Latin and Greek, due to the similar natures and prep of the compounds, and that they were usually put to more than one use at the same time.  Why wouldn't your foundation also clear up blemishes, or a poultice that can fix your liver also poison a rival?
         
        Perfumes were used extensively in religion, and in many cases required a higher level of technology to produce, which in turn increased the sophistication of the herbal medicines.  For example, rose oil, (macerated, not essential), got more and more concentrated and was used in everything from healing creations to perfume to offerings to magic.  And still is.
         
        I'm not quite sure why you'd disparage witches in your intro to this topic.  An herbal witch who specializes in reCreation and the anthropological studies of folk tradition, such as myself, is one of the ppl who could most easily direct your search in the areas you were interested in, with minimum fuss and bother.  It's an avocation as well as a vocation for many of us.
         
        If I was inclined to help, of course...
         
        Treasach
        http://www.MisticalAcScents.etsy.com
        Organic, fair trade, handmade herbal treats and cosmetics.
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 4:05 PM
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] medical associations

        There are tons and tons of publications and books that discuss this.  Look into Cultural Anthro books.  Many herbs are associated with religions of the ancient and medical cultures.  Not a hard subject to research.  Look up for example, Ancient Roman, traditions and religion and you will find lots of stuff.
         


        --- On Mon, 4/27/09, storm85213 <original_xman@ hotmail.com> wrote:
        From: storm85213 <original_xman@ hotmail.com>
        Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] medical associations
        To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 4:56 PM

        I have another question, but first a preface so you have probably guessed that I am going to be in trouble again: I believe that EVERYTHING in the universe can be talked about, and that is how I get into trouble. lol My question is this:

        Can anyone help me out and point me to source to find some of the magical, spiritual, etc. perceived special properties associated with plants and herbs?

        In the ancient world and up through the Renaissance, folk remedies and trained physicians used ingredients because of the supposed special properties that each was thought to have (including salt in the baptismal font to preserve the soul). The most well known would be Hippocrates four humours, which became the scientific model for the Greco-Romans to understand their world (and was in use up through the 1800's). Whether these properties are called magic or science does not matter because our ancestors believed in them. In my project I quickly learned that to be fair and realistic to each aspect of faith and belief I would have to fall in love with each one as they came (Coptic, Orthodox, heresies, Judaism, shamanism, paganism, etc.) My question is not off topic. It is just that this is not talked about anymore. My question is not about how to be a witch or a magus or theurge. I simply need help on where to start this new line of research for my project. Thanks again.
        Jack






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      • Robin Kennedy
        Another research key word is ethnobotany. I have good ethnobotanical resources posted on the Medieval page of my website: www.theplantlady.net Ethnobotanical
        Message 3 of 9 , May 6, 2009
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          Another research key word is ethnobotany. I have good ethnobotanical resources posted on the Medieval page of my website: www.theplantlady.net 
          Ethnobotanical resources often give at least cursory details on the spiritual aspects, depending on the author's focus.

          YIS,

          Maereta



          Robin Kennedy, MA
          Archivist, Genealogist, Historian
          PO Box 100
          Alpha, MI 49902
          906-875-4306





        • jack hollandbeck
          Thank you so much. This is what I meant when I asked for words or phrases. With my background I can come up with words for research into other fields.
          Message 4 of 9 , May 6, 2009
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            Thank you so much. This is what I meant when I asked for words or phrases. With my background I can come up with words for research into other fields. Herbalism and botony are brand new fields for me. I will certainly check out your website. Thanks again.
            Jack (one who never sees the trees inside a forest)


            To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            From: robin.j.kennedy@...
            Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 10:10:41 -0500
            Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: medical associations



            Another research key word is ethnobotany. I have good ethnobotanical resources posted on the Medieval page of my website: www.theplantlady.net 
            Ethnobotanical resources often give at least cursory details on the spiritual aspects, depending on the author's focus.

            YIS,

            Maereta



            Robin Kennedy, MA
            Archivist, Genealogist, Historian
            PO Box 100
            Alpha, MI 49902
            906-875-4306









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          • jack hollandbeck
            Ma am, forgive me, but would you be willing to explain to me how I have given offense. I did not mean to do that. It is a point of pride with me that I can
            Message 5 of 9 , May 6, 2009
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              Ma'am, forgive me, but would you be willing to explain to me how I have given offense. I did not mean to do that. It is a point of pride with me that I can assimilate enough to be accepted by many ethnic, cultural and religious groups. Your comment has stung me and has made it clear that I have overstepped some boundary. I think that it is time that I learn what those boundaries are so that I can be more respectful in the future. I realize that this is off topic. If you wish this can be taken into a private conversation via my email original_xman@...
              Jack



               
              I'm not quite sure why you'd disparage witches in your intro to this topic. 
              Treasach





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