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RE: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans

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  • jack hollandbeck
    The garlic bullet was a famous Mafia insult. If you think about coating a .45 calibre bullet with garlic juice.....what is the point of arguing when the bullet
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 15, 2009
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      The garlic bullet was a famous Mafia insult. If you think about coating a .45 calibre bullet with garlic juice.....what is the point of arguing when the bullet removes the victim's liver?!! The garlic juice (why not lemon juice which hurts more) may go way back to the folk knowledge of the Sicilians, and hence to Hippocratic beliefs in the native powers of everything and the theory of Four Humors, not to mention folk magic than to modern chemistry let alone ballistic physics. Personally I think that removing the liver would be enough.
      Jack


      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      From: kingstaste@...
      Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 16:56:41 -0400
      Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans



      Ok, back up, what?  Soaking a bullet in raw garlic juice?  Never heard of this.  So presumably it would dry off before you shot it, and/or I would think the heat generated by the shot itself would be enough to sterilize the thing again, but ok, say you hit someone with a bullet with garlic juice residue still on it.  Why does this cause gangrene?  Presumably because one wouldn’t know to treat your new bullet wound for garlic juice residue.  Still not sure how that causes cell death that is usually caused by lack of blood flow and bacteria such as Claustridium perfringens. 

       

      I know, not period at all, but this has me greatly confused.

      Christianna

       


      From: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Warrior Chef
      Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 1:25 PM
      To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans

       




      And, interestingly, in the modern world, soaking a bullet in garlic juice, and then of course hitting someone with the round, would cause gangrene to occur, since the wound was not treated for that kind of problem. Knives, too, had that affect on a wound.

       

       

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:53 AM

      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans

       

      The Romans would use Garlic Juice with olive oil to clean battle field wounds or infections.  Then to control bleeding after suturing they would lay leaves of Yarrow, soaked in garlic juice and wrap with linen in the same juice.  Great antiboitic effects. 

      --- On Mon, 4/13/09, gianottadallafiora <christianetrue@ earthlink. net> wrote:

      From: gianottadallafiora <christianetrue@ earthlink. net>
      Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans
      To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
      Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 12:14 PM

      Before SCA period, but it's a tradition that lived on; my Italian grandmother made poultices of olive oil and crushed garlic and bread for many wounds suffered by my dad and aunts when they were growing up in the 1940s and 50s.

      The video is in Italian, but the kit and props are impeccable:

      http://www.taccuini storici.it/ ita/news/ antica/video/ Video-olio- come-medicamento .html





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    • jack hollandbeck
      In battlefield injuries food poisoning is is almost negligible. The trauma from a gunshot is similar to an small explosion in effects on hard and soft tissues
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 16, 2009
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        In battlefield injuries food poisoning is is almost negligible. The trauma from a gunshot is similar to an small explosion in effects on hard and soft tissues of the body. There is enough opportunity for infection, not to mention massive blood loss and fatal shock to do the job. A close friend of mine was a combat medic in Nam. He never worried about infection, just shock and the initial wounds. Then again we had Dust Off helicopters to move the dead and wounded to hospitals for a survival rate of close to 90% (if the wounded left the battlefield alive there was an excellent chance for survival). You might be thinking about the famous pungi sticks dipped in feces. Such infection takes a while to be fatal. The wounded were given antibiotics in the hospital. It is true that poison has been used in history, primarily on arrows. These were even recorded in Homer. However, movies and TV aside, the impact of an arrow is a puncture wound and not an explosive impact like a bullet. In the ancient world poisoned arrows were much more fatal due to medical technology. Back to period, in the Renaissance and High Middle Ages, bullets could vary between the size of a golf ball to a shooter marble. Treatment was simple for a direct hit to limb, amputation, or body, euthanasia. Knowledge is much preferred over show business in such things.
        Jack


        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        From: warrior-chef@...
        Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:09:14 -0700
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans



        If the bullet didn't kill the person, and they were wounded, since combat treatment is rarely immediate, food poisoning would set in; and maybe I used gangrene inadvertantly. It was successful in a number of wars; last time I used it was almost 45 years ago in Viet Nam. Because you may only be treating a wound, the blood has had time to circulate the 'food poisoning' into the system, and eventually, other bad things happen, like gangrene.
         
        The use of poisons is not uncommon throughout history on weapons, or to fight. Throwing dead horses and people into castles that were under seige was  not uncomon; using poison on blades [less documented in polite journals, but evidence exists]. The opportunity and methods existed and were used when many people went to war, even if was only to coat things with excrement, another good infector...
         
         
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 1:56 PM
        Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans


        Ok, back up, what?  Soaking a bullet in raw garlic juice?  Never heard of this.  So presumably it would dry off before you shot it, and/or I would think the heat generated by the shot itself would be enough to sterilize the thing again, but ok, say you hit someone with a bullet with garlic juice residue still on it.  Why does this cause gangrene?  Presumably because one wouldn’t know to treat your new bullet wound for garlic juice residue.  Still not sure how that causes cell death that is usually caused by lack of blood flow and bacteria such as Claustridium perfringens. 

        I know, not period at all, but this has me greatly confused.

        Christianna


        From: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:SCA- Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Warrior Chef
        Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 1:25 PM
        To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans




        And, interestingly, in the modern world, soaking a bullet in garlic juice, and then of course hitting someone with the round, would cause gangrene to occur, since the wound was not treated for that kind of problem. Knives, too, had that affect on a wound.

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 10:53 AM

        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans

        The Romans would use Garlic Juice with olive oil to clean battle field wounds or infections.  Then to control bleeding after suturing they would lay leaves of Yarrow, soaked in garlic juice and wrap with linen in the same juice.  Great antiboitic effects. 

        --- On Mon, 4/13/09, gianottadallafiora <christianetrue@ earthlink. net> wrote:

        From: gianottadallafiora <christianetrue@ earthlink. net>
        Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans
        To: SCA-Herbalist@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Monday, April 13, 2009, 12:14 PM

        Before SCA period, but it's a tradition that lived on; my Italian grandmother made poultices of olive oil and crushed garlic and bread for many wounds suffered by my dad and aunts when they were growing up in the 1940s and 50s.

        The video is in Italian, but the kit and props are impeccable:

        http://www.taccuini storici.it/ ita/news/ antica/video/ Video-olio- come-medicamento .html






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      • gianottadallafiora
        ... Hi Jack! It s from a Website called Taccuini Storici ( Historical notebook ); it s a multimedia Website done in collaboration with the Accademia Italiana
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 17, 2009
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          --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Thanks so much Christiane! The Empire is my period, and I have done some research on medicine of the period, even though my period is the 5th century CE. Man, I wish that I spoke Italian! Still, the imagery was phenomenal. Where did you get this?
          > Jack
          >

          Hi Jack! It's from a Website called "Taccuini Storici" ("Historical notebook"); it's a multimedia Website done in collaboration with the Accademia Italiana Gastronomia Storica (Italian Academy of Gastronomic History). Pretty much, anything having to do with culinary history in Italy, they put up articles and videos and recipes. You can click the English button at the top right of the screen to get an instant translation of any of the written stuff, but I warn you, the translation is BAD. OMG. Still it can give you the gist of what was written. There's a whole category of recipes for each era. The Italian word for recipe/recipes is ricetta/ricette.

          The Roman recipes are under the "antica" section.
        • jack hollandbeck
          Thank you again. I am going to check it out. I am familiar with less than professional translations. lol Most of my online research goes through Ask.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 18, 2009
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            Thank you again. I am going to check it out. I am familiar with less than professional translations. lol Most of my online research goes through Ask.com because they often offer computerized translations. They are a hoot!!! especially when the computer can't deal with colloquialisms and they are left in the translations. They are really funny. Oh, the computerized translations also try to translate personal names and proper nouns. Still I am sure it will be a treat. In this video it was interesting to see the complete lack of excitement on the part of the medicus. In our world of ER's and frantic hurry it takes some work to realize things have not always been this way. I am going there now. Thanks.
            Jack

            > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
            > From: christianetrue@...
            > Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:31:49 +0000
            > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Re: Medicinal use of olive oil by the Romans
            >
            > --- In SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com, jack hollandbeck <original_xman@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks so much Christiane! The Empire is my period, and I have done some research on medicine of the period, even though my period is the 5th century CE. Man, I wish that I spoke Italian! Still, the imagery was phenomenal. Where did you get this?
            > > Jack
            > >
            >
            > Hi Jack! It's from a Website called "Taccuini Storici" ("Historical notebook"); it's a multimedia Website done in collaboration with the Accademia Italiana Gastronomia Storica (Italian Academy of Gastronomic History). Pretty much, anything having to do with culinary history in Italy, they put up articles and videos and recipes. You can click the English button at the top right of the screen to get an instant translation of any of the written stuff, but I warn you, the translation is BAD. OMG. Still it can give you the gist of what was written. There's a whole category of recipes for each era. The Italian word for recipe/recipes is ricetta/ricette.
            >
            > The Roman recipes are under the "antica" section.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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