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Rose Bead Redux

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  • Carowyn Silveroak
    Yes, I m opening the can o worms again! The lady who runs the paternosters list and a bunch of us are looking at Nostradamus The Elixirs of Nostradamus ,
    Message 1 of 3 , Dec 9, 2008
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      Yes, I'm opening the can o' worms again!
       
      The lady who runs the paternosters list and a bunch of us are looking at Nostradamus' "The Elixirs of Nostradamus", and the paternoster bead / rose recipe therein.  If anyone has a copy of the most recent translation, page 31 and following.
       
      (I have the pages at the bottom of the page http://www.gemistry.com/CaroSchtuff.htm (the giant pics at the bottom, sorry for the blurriness), but there's also an online facsimile here http://www.propheties.it/nostradamus/1555opuscole/opuscole.html
       
      The translation looks a bit different than the original, so I don't quite trust my translation.....
       
      A few questions....
       
      Could someone be confusing "rock rose" with "rose bead"?  It seems that "rock rose" (labdanum, *not* laudanum!) is only associated with roses in English (could that be a Victorian affectation?), but could there be legit confusion there?
       
      The little bit of research I did mumblety years ago on rock rose / labdanum said that up till the Roman era, only the shepherds knew where the scent came from, as they collected it from their goats' beards.  But Wikipedia (yeah, I know, I know, that's why I'm a-askin' here!) mentions a more industry-approach to the collection.  Does anyone have more, better, stronger data?
       
      We all know "amber" is a shortening of "ambergris", but does anyone have solid documentation for it?  If we're going to reproduce these recipes, I'd like the nitpick documentation already lined up.
       
      Thanks in advance,
       
      -Carowyn


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    • McIsaac & Capnerhurst
      The Artifice of Beauty mentions much ancient use of Labdanum, and includes it in the recipe for rose beads, if you want more confusion. In that esteemed
      Message 2 of 3 , Dec 9, 2008
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        "The Artifice of Beauty" mentions much ancient use of Labdanum, and includes it in the recipe for rose beads, if you want more confusion.
         
        In that esteemed book, Pointer says that the resin is mentioned in both Pliny and Dioscorides, and is only occasionally collected from the goats as the latter describes.  "The other, more usual, collection method is to boil the leaves and twigs in water and collect the resin that gathers on the surface...Old recipes sometimes refer to labdanum as 'Amber' or 'Ambra'."
         
        I personally use it in my rose beads to suggest the scent of the musk, civet, and ambergris that I'm not even dreaming of putting in.
         
        Treasach
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:53 PM
        Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Rose Bead Redux


        Yes, I'm opening the can o' worms again!
         
        The lady who runs the paternosters list and a bunch of us are looking at Nostradamus' "The Elixirs of Nostradamus" , and the paternoster bead / rose recipe therein.  If anyone has a copy of the most recent translation, page 31 and following.
         
        (I have the pages at the bottom of the page http://www.gemistry .com/CaroSchtuff .htm (the giant pics at the bottom, sorry for the blurriness), but there's also an online facsimile here http://www.propheti es.it/nostradamu s/1555opuscole/ opuscole. html
         
        The translation looks a bit different than the original, so I don't quite trust my translation. ....
         
        A few questions... .
         
        Could someone be confusing "rock rose" with "rose bead"?  It seems that "rock rose" (labdanum, *not* laudanum!) is only associated with roses in English (could that be a Victorian affectation? ), but could there be legit confusion there?
         
        The little bit of research I did mumblety years ago on rock rose / labdanum said that up till the Roman era, only the shepherds knew where the scent came from, as they collected it from their goats' beards.  But Wikipedia (yeah, I know, I know, that's why I'm a-askin' here!) mentions a more industry-approach to the collection.  Does anyone have more, better, stronger data?
         
        We all know "amber" is a shortening of "ambergris", but does anyone have solid documentation for it?  If we're going to reproduce these recipes, I'd like the nitpick documentation already lined up.
         
        Thanks in advance,
         
        -Carowyn


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        Save $15 on Flowers and Gifts from FTD!
        Shop now at www.ftd.com/ 17007

      • silveroak@juno.com
        Greetings, It looks like azalea blooms also make rose beads with the same recipe - I ve been cooking them for a week, and I formed the beads this evening,
        Message 3 of 3 , May 23, 2013
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          Greetings,

          It looks like azalea blooms also make "rose" beads with the same recipe - I've been cooking them for a week, and I formed the beads this evening, and they're drying on mandrels in my craft room. I used the same process that I used for the rose beads, so (crosses fingers) here's hoping!

          Next year - forsythia, dogwood, and magnolia blossoms. If I can, tulips and daffodils as well, if I can get enough.

          Whatever the beads do, sink or swim, I'll post the results on my website as a comparison / contrast and post the link once they're there.

          It also produced an azalea / iron water ink, and I'll be using that in the next few days in calligraphy. My rose water / iron ink is chilling in the fridge from last year.

          -Carowyn


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