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hello all--just joined the list

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  • Laurel
    hello all. I have just joined in part because I m hoping to learn a few things that will help me with a research project i m working on. My name is Lady Biya
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 2, 2008
      hello all. I have just joined in part because I'm hoping to learn a
      few things that will help me with a research project i'm working on.

      My name is Lady Biya Sama. i'm the guildmistress of the aviculture
      guild. while we search for a period name we can all agree on, that
      guild is called the company of medieval aviculturist for the lack of
      anything better.

      I'm attempting to redact what medieval europeans safely used as
      perches for the their parrots. for someone who knows nothing about
      trees and plants, this is more than daunting. but the arts and
      sciences of birds involves every conceivable area of knowledge known
      to humanity and, well, I mostly know how to get along with birds--
      which is wonderful in the day to day practice of the art--less in
      researching how it was done in period. ;)

      There ARE established lists now of what is poisonous and what is
      not. I've asked for my veterinarian's help to see if there are
      things that might have been done in period to treat something that
      was poisonous to make it less poisonous (WAS THERE??). For example,
      oak is poisonous to birds. But maybe an herbalist could have done
      something to make oak not poisonous? Cherry wood is poisonous on one
      layer, I've read, so it's considerable POSSIBLE to treat it, if done
      correctly, so it's not poisonous--though the bird community's feeling
      is WHY TAKE CHANCES?

      anyway, i have no clue what grows where and I have to assume that at
      least some of the work I need to do in order to redact what medieval
      europeans used as parrot equipment and perches has already been done
      by very knowledgable people--that here, i don't need to reinvent the
      wheel. I'm already inventing it in most other areas of the arts and
      sciences i do.

      so how do I begin figuring out from a long list of about 200 kinds of
      trees what was growing where? I know automatically some of these are
      from the new world. Manzanita is from California. and for good
      research, how specific should a breakdown get?

      I'm sorry if I'm saying too much in the first post. and I certainly
      hope I'm in the right place.

      thanks!!
    • Marian Walke
      ... Two period terms are fowler and birder . Fowler is earlier and seems (according to the OED) to suggest one who hunts and catches birds. Birders did
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 4, 2008
        Laurel wrote:
        >
        > My name is Lady Biya Sama. i'm the guildmistress of the aviculture
        > guild. while we search for a period name we can all agree on, that
        > guild is called the company of medieval aviculturist for the lack of
        > anything better.

        Two period terms are "fowler" and "birder". Fowler is earlier and seems
        (according to the OED) to suggest one who hunts and catches birds.
        Birders did that as well, but also were breeders of birds. It wasn't
        until mid-twentieth C. that birders became the term for bird-watchers.

        > so how do I begin figuring out from a long list of about 200 kinds of
        > trees what was growing where? I know automatically some of these are
        > from the new world. Manzanita is from California. and for good
        > research, how specific should a breakdown get?
        >
        I have created a database of Medieval garden plants. You can find it on
        my web site, www.buttery.org/marian and click on the medieval garden link.

        You can then look at the Helpful Hints page before going directly to the
        "garden" -- particularly if you are not familiar with database programs
        in general or Filemaker in particular; you can then search for "tree"
        and "shrub" in the description field, and in the culinary or medicinal
        fields search for "toxic". That might give you a start. If you are a
        database-phobe, write to me off-list and I'll run the search for you.
        (This is a one-time only offer.)

        --Old Marian
        marian (at) buttery (dot) org
      • Amy Provost
        I can t help you with period references, but cherry would have to be soaked in a series of baths to remove the cyanide content of the bark. For the sake or
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 4, 2008
          I can't help you with period references, but cherry would have to be soaked in a series of baths to remove the cyanide content of the bark.  For the sake or perches, I would think that the bark would be removed anyway.  If you are talking larger parrots (like maybe the African Grey), I would think that hard woods would be used.  So anything in the cherry, apple or maple family would be the most likely choice.  For smaller birds, I should think that pine would be sufficient.   My parrot finds pine twigs delicious :)

          Ameline

          On Feb 2, 2008 1:42 PM, Laurel <aisinbiya@...> wrote:

          hello all. I have just joined in part because I'm hoping to learn a
          few things that will help me with a research project i'm working on.

          My name is Lady Biya Sama. i'm the guildmistress of the aviculture
          guild. while we search for a period name we can all agree on, that
          guild is called the company of medieval aviculturist for the lack of
          anything better.

          I'm attempting to redact what medieval europeans safely used as
          perches for the their parrots. for someone who knows nothing about
          trees and plants, this is more than daunting. but the arts and
          sciences of birds involves every conceivable area of knowledge known
          to humanity and, well, I mostly know how to get along with birds--
          which is wonderful in the day to day practice of the art--less in
          researching how it was done in period. ;)

          There ARE established lists now of what is poisonous and what is
          not. I've asked for my veterinarian's help to see if there are
          things that might have been done in period to treat something that
          was poisonous to make it less poisonous (WAS THERE??). For example,
          oak is poisonous to birds. But maybe an herbalist could have done
          something to make oak not poisonous? Cherry wood is poisonous on one
          layer, I've read, so it's considerable POSSIBLE to treat it, if done
          correctly, so it's not poisonous--though the bird community's feeling
          is WHY TAKE CHANCES?

          anyway, i have no clue what grows where and I have to assume that at
          least some of the work I need to do in order to redact what medieval
          europeans used as parrot equipment and perches has already been done
          by very knowledgable people--that here, i don't need to reinvent the
          wheel. I'm already inventing it in most other areas of the arts and
          sciences i do.

          so how do I begin figuring out from a long list of about 200 kinds of
          trees what was growing where? I know automatically some of these are
          from the new world. Manzanita is from California. and for good
          research, how specific should a breakdown get?

          I'm sorry if I'm saying too much in the first post. and I certainly
          hope I'm in the right place.

          thanks!!




          --
          www.crookedwall.org
          www.bthumbstudios.com
        • Lady Biya
          Thank you Marion...I m going to try to play with your database...be prepared for shouts of help if I can t figure it out. I m not familiar with these
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 4, 2008
            Thank you Marion...I'm going to try to play with your database...be
            prepared for shouts of "help" if I can't figure it out. I'm not
            familiar with these searches, but usually pretty good at figuring most
            things out given a chance to tinker.

            being a student of falconry, I'm quite acquainted with the arts of
            using birds to catch other birds. and of course I know about bird
            watching. but here I'm talking about the arts and sciences of keeping
            birds as companions or for personal menageries. What I've found is
            that while the men made their war and went on their hunts, the ladies
            kept their popinjays, finches, doves, and other gentle birds as their
            feathered companions indoors to help them in their day to day chores.
            In medieval europe, the parrots were usually of the genus
            psiticula--either the African ringneck from Egypt or one of three
            species from India: the Indian ringneck, the Alexandrine, or the
            Plumhead. Collectively these four psiticula parakeets were called
            "popinjays". (Congo) African greys were also available, though in
            lesser numbers. Based on the evidence I've found so far, Europeans
            seems to have had no problem breeding their popinjays.

            But as milday Ameline must know, parrots can and do go through a lot
            of wood very quickly!

            As to how hard or soft...i find that depends on the individual. my
            birds like very soft stuff for their toys and a mix of hard and soft
            for their perches.

            --
            Lady Biya
            Company of Medieval Aviculturists
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaparrots
          • Rickard, Patty
            Wow - do we have any crossover with either of the Alex lists? From: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 4, 2008

              Wow -  do we have any crossover with either of the Alex lists?

               

              From: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Amy Provost
              Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 3:11 PM
              To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] hello all--just joined the list

               

              I can't help you with period references, but cherry would have to be soaked in a series of baths to remove the cyanide content of the bark.  For the sake or perches, I would think that the bark would be removed anyway.  If you are talking larger parrots (like maybe the African Grey), I would think that hard woods would be used.  So anything in the cherry, apple or maple family would be the most likely choice.  For smaller birds, I should think that pine would be sufficient.   My parrot finds pine twigs delicious :)

              Ameline

              On Feb 2, 2008 1:42 PM, Laurel <aisinbiya@...> wrote:

              hello all. I have just joined in part because I'm hoping to learn a
              few things that will help me with a research project i'm working on.

              My name is Lady Biya Sama. i'm the guildmistress of the aviculture
              guild. while we search for a period name we can all agree on, that
              guild is called the company of medieval aviculturist for the lack of
              anything better.

              I'm attempting to redact what medieval europeans safely used as
              perches for the their parrots. for someone who knows nothing about
              trees and plants, this is more than daunting. but the arts and
              sciences of birds involves every conceivable area of knowledge known
              to humanity and, well, I mostly know how to get along with birds--
              which is wonderful in the day to day practice of the art--less in
              researching how it was done in period. ;)

              There ARE established lists now of what is poisonous and what is
              not. I've asked for my veterinarian's help to see if there are
              things that might have been done in period to treat something that
              was poisonous to make it less poisonous (WAS THERE??). For example,
              oak is poisonous to birds. But maybe an herbalist could have done
              something to make oak not poisonous? Cherry wood is poisonous on one
              layer, I've read, so it's considerable POSSIBLE to treat it, if done
              correctly, so it's not poisonous--though the bird community's feeling
              is WHY TAKE CHANCES?

              anyway, i have no clue what grows where and I have to assume that at
              least some of the work I need to do in order to redact what medieval
              europeans used as parrot equipment and perches has already been done
              by very knowledgable people--that here, i don't need to reinvent the
              wheel. I'm already inventing it in most other areas of the arts and
              sciences i do.

              so how do I begin figuring out from a long list of about 200 kinds of
              trees what was growing where? I know automatically some of these are
              from the new world. Manzanita is from California. and for good
              research, how specific should a breakdown get?

              I'm sorry if I'm saying too much in the first post. and I certainly
              hope I'm in the right place.

              thanks!!




              --
              www.crookedwall.org
              www.bthumbstudios.com

            • Lady Biya
              Alex lists? Perhaps someone would be kind enough to begin by telling me a little about plants in europe as a starting point. For example...oak is extremely
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 4, 2008
                Alex lists?

                Perhaps someone would be kind enough to begin by telling me a little
                about plants in europe as a starting point. For example...oak is
                extremely poisonous to parrots. Yet to someone whose knowledge of
                herbalism amounts to bits and pieces from soothsaying, my impression
                is that oak and mistletoe (extremely poisonous plants) are extremely
                common in the british isles.

                Apple is on the safe list for parrots for parrots. so is pine and
                almond (almond is also one of the better foods for parrots, but I
                can't recite the nutritional value off the top of my head--it's better
                than walnuts for them for the omega 3 fat, that much I remember). If
                you're in England looking for stuff to make your bird perches and toys
                from, how readily available are apple trees, pine trees, and almond
                trees going to be (the safe stuff) compared to the very poisonal oak
                trees?

                birch is also on the safe list, I think, but ONLY if you remove the
                bark--the others are safe WITH the bark on.

                My cockatiels LOVE to strip the bark off perches, btw. ;)

                oh, and btw, if the Alex thing refers to the late great African
                grey...i happen to know a fair amount about parrot cognition myself.
                parrot behavior is really my forte. ;) You gotta be when you're a
                cockatoo person like me. ;) not the easiest parrots to deal with. :)
                --
                Lady Biya
                Company of Medieval Aviculturists
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaparrots
              • Rickard, Patty
                Sorry, Alex the Congo African Grey, who died last September (5 months ago today) has 2 (at least) associated yahoo groups. One called Remembering Alex for
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 6, 2008

                  Sorry, Alex the Congo African Grey, who died last September (5 months ago today) has 2 (at least) associated yahoo groups. One called Remembering Alex for memorial tribute stuff & one called Alex-n-friends when we discovered we had a lot else to talk about, too.  Since you mentioned CAGs I thought perhaps you were on one of these lists, too.

                   

                  From: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com [mailto:SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lady Biya
                  Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 4:32 PM
                  To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] OT reply hello all--just joined the list

                   

                  Alex lists?

                  Perhaps someone would be kind enough to begin by telling me a little
                  about plants in europe as a starting point. For example...oak is
                  extremely poisonous to parrots. Yet to someone whose knowledge of
                  herbalism amounts to bits and pieces from soothsaying, my impression
                  is that oak and mistletoe (extremely poisonous plants) are extremely
                  common in the british isles.

                  Apple is on the safe list for parrots for parrots. so is pine and
                  almond (almond is also one of the better foods for parrots, but I
                  can't recite the nutritional value off the top of my head--it's better
                  than walnuts for them for the omega 3 fat, that much I remember). If
                  you're in England looking for stuff to make your bird perches and toys
                  from, how readily available are apple trees, pine trees, and almond
                  trees going to be (the safe stuff) compared to the very poisonal oak
                  trees?

                  birch is also on the safe list, I think, but ONLY if you remove the
                  bark--the others are safe WITH the bark on.

                  My cockatiels LOVE to strip the bark off perches, btw. ;)

                  oh, and btw, if the Alex thing refers to the late great African
                  grey...i happen to know a fair amount about parrot cognition myself.
                  parrot behavior is really my forte. ;) You gotta be when you're a
                  cockatoo person like me. ;) not the easiest parrots to deal with. :)
                  --
                  Lady Biya
                  Company of Medieval Aviculturists
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaparrots

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