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Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Most precious ointment project

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  • aricia
    Also be careful using it in massage oils, etc. It can cause contact dermatitis. Aricia Jehane ... From: Lila Richards To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com Sent:
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 25, 2002
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      Also be careful using it in massage oils, etc.  It can cause contact dermatitis. 
       
      Aricia Jehane
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 3:55 PM
      Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Most precious ointment project

      I don't know how much would be absorbed through the skin but be careful with St. John's Wort if you take birth control pills.  I reduces their effectiveness to the point that I've a doctor say something about the only use would then be for post partum depression.  ;-)
       
      I've also heard that it's bad for the liver - presumably if taken over a period of time. So it probably shouldn't be be used as a long-term anti-depressant, or by people with liver problems.
       
      Sinech.
       
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    • Shanalee C Hollingshead
      Do you have know the botanical for this plant? It would make it easier for me to find. Do you think this ointment would work for poison oak as well? While I
      Message 2 of 24 , Apr 14, 2003
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        Do you have know the botanical for this plant? It would make it easier
        for me to find. Do you think this ointment would work for poison oak as
        well? While I don't get poison oak, the rest of my family does.
        Thank you,
        Elysant

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      • Tchipakkan
        ... Jewelweed, AKA Spotted Touch-me-not, botanical name: Impatiens capensis Meerb I expect it might- a friend told me it cleared up his athletes foot, and so
        Message 3 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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          > Do you have know the botanical for this plant? It would make it easier
          > for me to find. Do you think this ointment would work for poison oak as
          > well? While I don't get poison oak, the rest of my family does.
          > Thank you,
          > Elysant
          Jewelweed, AKA Spotted Touch-me-not, botanical name:
          Impatiens capensis Meerb

          I expect it might- a friend told me it cleared up his athletes foot, and so
          far the only one who's tried it and didn't recover in one or two days was
          having such a bad reaction she was already on steroids- once it's gone
          systemic, the victim is in trouble anyway!

          BTW- this all may be fascinating for us because it's immediately useful, but
          does anyone know- do they have poison ivy in Europe? did they need poison
          ivy medicine in period (or was it an unpleasant surprise when they got
          here?)
          --
          Tchipakkan

          FOUR LAWS OF ECOLOGY

          1. Everything is connected to something else.
          2. Everything must go somewhere.
          3. Mother Nature knows best.
          4. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
        • Carolin
          ... I have never seen poison ivy in Germany... I actually had no idea what it was and had to look it up after the discussion here started (and this after
          Message 4 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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            >
            >
            >BTW- this all may be fascinating for us because it's immediately useful, but
            >does anyone know- do they have poison ivy in Europe? did they need poison
            >ivy medicine in period (or was it an unpleasant surprise when they got
            >here?)

            I have never seen poison ivy in Germany... I actually had no idea
            what it was and had to look it up after the discussion here started
            (and this after living in the US for over 2 years ... go figure. It
            seems to belong to the family of "Sumachs" which is common in Europe
            too... just poison ivy didn't make it over there. So... no poison ivy
            in period.
            However there is "stinging nettle" that is very common in Europe
            which causes a skin reaction as well (from what I have heard of
            poison ivy our nettles are a piece of cake however)... and with some
            oil you can actually make a nice salad from stinging nettle ... we
            also have cheese with the nettle leaves in it as "herb" in Germany
            ...and its tea is used for people with UTI. See also:
            http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/n/nettle03.html#les

            Carolin


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          • sue walker
            I just want to ask??? what about nettles, they are found in Europe, don t they sting in a chemical burn like poison Ivy??? In Service Ealdgyth ...
            Message 5 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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              I just want to ask??? what about nettles, they are found in Europe, don't they sting in a chemical
              burn like poison Ivy???
              In Service
              Ealdgyth
              > BTW- this all may be fascinating for us because it's immediately useful, but
              > does anyone know- do they have poison ivy in Europe? did they need poison
              > ivy medicine in period (or was it an unpleasant surprise when they got
              > here?)
              > --
              > Tchipakkan
              >
              >
              >
              >


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            • Tchipakkan
              ... To sooth the sting of nettles, rub with yellow or curly dock- they usually grow near each other. I ve always wondered about that- I d read that the romans
              Message 6 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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                > I just want to ask??? what about nettles, they are found in Europe, don't they
                > sting in a chemical
                > burn like poison Ivy???
                > In Service
                > Ealdgyth
                To sooth the sting of nettles, rub with yellow or curly dock- they usually
                grow near each other. I've always wondered about that- I'd read that the
                romans imported nettle to England- which i can understand as it's such an
                useful herb, but did they take and distribute dock with it? I understand
                that it's little hairs in the nettle leaf that carries the sting- which is
                why a brush against it can be so painful, when grabbing it firmly doesn't
                hurt so much.

                Tchipakkan
                --
                "Perhaps the greatest social service that can be rendered by anybody to the
                country and to mankind is to bring up a family." - George Bernard Shaw
              • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
                ... Yes, we have stinging nettles (probably naturalized from Europe) in the U.S. too. But my experience with stinging nettle is that the experience is
                Message 7 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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                  > However there is "stinging nettle" that is very common in Europe
                  > which causes a skin reaction as well (from what I have heard of
                  > poison ivy our nettles are a piece of cake however)... and with some
                  > oil you can actually make a nice salad from stinging nettle ... we
                  > also have cheese with the nettle leaves in it as "herb" in Germany
                  > ...and its tea is used for people with UTI. See also:
                  > http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/n/nettle03.html#les

                  Yes, we have stinging nettles (probably naturalized from Europe) in the
                  U.S. too. But my experience with stinging nettle is that the experience is
                  relatively brief-- though jewelweed is supposed to cool the sting! Poison
                  ivy, oak, or sumac rashes last for days or weeks and can be really nasty.

                  Nettles are not only a useful (and period) source of food and medicine,
                  they were also used for making cloth in period. They would be retted
                  similarly to flax or hemp, and supposedly nettlecloth is finer and whiter
                  than linen.

                  -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
                  "Adam was a gardner, and God who made him sees/
                  That half a proper gardener's work is done upon his knees." - Kipling
                • Tchipakkan
                  ... Let s not forget that they are delicious food- both in salads and cooked- (I have a lovely soup recipe around here somewhere) and incredibly healthy-
                  Message 8 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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                    > Yes, we have stinging nettles (probably naturalized from Europe) in the
                    > U.S. too. But my experience with stinging nettle is that the experience is
                    > relatively brief-- though jewelweed is supposed to cool the sting! Poison
                    > ivy, oak, or sumac rashes last for days or weeks and can be really nasty.
                    >
                    > Nettles are not only a useful (and period) source of food and medicine,
                    > they were also used for making cloth in period. They would be retted
                    > similarly to flax or hemp, and supposedly nettlecloth is finer and whiter
                    > than linen.
                    >
                    > -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
                    Let's not forget that they are delicious food- both in salads and cooked- (I
                    have a lovely soup recipe around here somewhere) and incredibly healthy-
                    Gather young plants with gloves, and when they get limp, they stop stinging
                    (mostly- there's usually one or two little zings, but nothing compared to
                    brushing up against the living plant!)
                    The problem with poison ivy is that it's the oil which not only stays on the
                    skin (or clothing- or furniture) until removed with any good surfactant, as
                    you'd clean any oil, but the tiniest amounts cause the typical blistering-
                    and it spreads. one young lady sad down (in a bathing suit) on the work
                    clothes tossed on a chair by her sister when the sister came in to wisely
                    shower immediately after pulling some poison ivy- as you might imagine, she
                    got it all over her thighs- and yes, it spread to her inner thighs. next
                    time the cloths go straight into the washer!
                    and of course, the chair had to be treated too- I think a water or alcohol
                    extraction method to make a wash for such purposes would be useful- but
                    haven't tried it yet. I wonder if one could use the impregnated oil to make
                    soap and it would still be effective?
                    For you lucky souls who don't know poison ivy- here's the most important
                    part. it effects some people, and not others BUT, this can change! (and
                    there are SO many sad stories of it happening when someone goes to prove
                    that it doesn't effect him or her!) I belive it's similar to allergic
                    reactions- you start immune, but each exposure sensitises you more until you
                    finally react. So if it doesn't bother you now- don't get cocky. And be
                    aware of possible carriers: people who don't react yet, wood walking
                    clothes, and the ever popular family pet, who come home with poison ivy oil
                    on the outside of its fur, then rubs up against it's owners (or their
                    furniture)- "where did that rash come from?" I can't imagine washing the dog
                    every time he came in from wandering around outside- much less the cat- and
                    luckily I've never heard of their getting it on their tounges...

                    -- Tchipakkan
                    "In all my years I never seen, heard, nor smelled an issue that was so
                    dangerous it couldn't be TALKED about. Hell, yes, I'm for debatin'
                    anything!" Steven Hopkins in 1776
                  • g4619@aol.com
                    In a message dated 4/15/2003 11:02:47 AM Central Daylight Time, ... The best way to gather it is to firmly grasp it when brekign the stem. The sting in the
                    Message 9 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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                      In a message dated 4/15/2003 11:02:47 AM Central Daylight Time, tchipakkan@... writes:

                      To sooth the sting of nettles, rub with yellow or curly dock- they usually
                      grow near each other. I've always wondered about that- I'd read that the
                      romans imported nettle to England- which i can understand as it's such an
                      useful herb, but did they take and distribute dock with it? I understand
                      that it's little hairs in the nettle leaf that carries the sting- which is
                      why a brush against it can be so painful, when grabbing it firmly doesn't
                      hurt so much.


                      The best way to gather it is to firmly grasp it when brekign the stem. The "sting" in the stem is a very acidic fluid and the stem's fluid is a base. So by grabbing it firmly you cancel out the reaction.

                      Ambray

                      Magic lives in curves not angles.
                      Mason Cooly
                    • g4619@aol.com
                      In a message dated 4/14/2003 10:00:17 PM Central Daylight Time, ... I have used it for both. Ambray Magic lives in curves not angles. Mason Cooly
                      Message 10 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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                        In a message dated 4/14/2003 10:00:17 PM Central Daylight Time, shana_c@... writes:

                        Do you have know the botanical for this plant?  It would make it easier
                        for me to find. Do you think this ointment would work for poison oak as
                        well?  While I don't get poison oak, the rest of my family does.


                        I have used it for both.
                        Ambray

                        Magic lives in curves not angles.
                        Mason Cooly
                      • Tchipakkan
                        hey everyone- I was thinking it would be cool to make a batch of most precious ointment at the Demeter s Return Fair- Thinking that if each of five people
                        Message 11 of 24 , Apr 15, 2003
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                          Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Most precious ointment project hey everyone-
                          I was thinking it would be cool to make a batch of most precious ointment at the Demeter's Return Fair- Thinking that if each of five people brought 7 herbs, or each of 7 people brought 5, we could get a batch made without one person having to lay out fifty bucks by themselves. It's a simple warm infusion: I could bring a cauldron, oil and bottles, and straining stuff, and we can split it at the end. If we can get 4 or more vollunteers, i'll post the list of herbs and people can vollunteer for which they want to bring- i think it would be cool if we could get as many as possible from people who've gathered them themselves. Is there any interest in such a project?
                          --
                          Tchipakkan
                          Arastorm the Golden
                          Lady of Stormgard
                        • Jenne Heise
                          ... I d be interested... I can bring some of the herbs... -- / Jennifer Heise, Helpdesk/Librarian, Email: jahb@lehigh.edu Lehigh Library & Technology
                          Message 12 of 24 , Apr 16, 2003
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                            Tchipakkan wrote:
                            > hey everyone-
                            > I was thinking it would be cool to make a batch of most precious
                            > ointment at the Demeter's Return Fair- Thinking that if each of five
                            > people brought 7 herbs, or each of 7 people brought 5, we could get a
                            > batch made without one person having to lay out fifty bucks by
                            > themselves. It's a simple warm infusion: I could bring a cauldron, oil
                            > and bottles, and straining stuff, and we can split it at the end. If we
                            > can get 4 or more vollunteers, i'll post the list of herbs and people
                            > can vollunteer for which they want to bring- i think it would be cool if
                            > we could get as many as possible from people who've gathered them
                            > themselves. Is there any interest in such a project?
                            > --

                            I'd be interested... I can bring some of the herbs...


                            --
                            / Jennifer Heise, Helpdesk/Librarian, Email: jahb@...
                            \ \ Lehigh Library & Technology Services, Phone: (610) 758-3072
                            / Fairchild-Martindale Library, 8A Packer Ave, Bethlehem PA 18015

                            "Comment is free, but facts are on expenses." -- Tom Stoppard
                          • Tchipakkan
                            ... Thats one- anyone else coming to the faire? Tchipakkan
                            Message 13 of 24 , Apr 16, 2003
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                              > Tchipakkan wrote:
                              >> hey everyone-
                              >> I was thinking it would be cool to make a batch of most precious
                              >> ointment at the Demeter's Return Fair- Thinking that if each of five
                              >> people brought 7 herbs, or each of 7 people brought 5, we could get a
                              >> batch made without one person having to lay out fifty bucks by
                              >> themselves. It's a simple warm infusion: I could bring a cauldron, oil
                              >> and bottles, and straining stuff, and we can split it at the end. If we
                              >> can get 4 or more vollunteers, i'll post the list of herbs and people
                              >> can vollunteer for which they want to bring- i think it would be cool if
                              >> we could get as many as possible from people who've gathered them
                              >> themselves. Is there any interest in such a project?
                              >> --
                              >
                              > I'd be interested... I can bring some of the herbs...
                              >
                              Thats one- anyone else coming to the faire? Tchipakkan
                            • kaytlyn@juno.com
                              Can someone share the recipe?? Pretty Please?? Kaytlyn Record High temp yesterday--snow today. It s April in Northshield! On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:18:20 -0400
                              Message 14 of 24 , Apr 16, 2003
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                                Can someone share the recipe?? Pretty Please??

                                Kaytlyn

                                Record High temp yesterday--snow today. It's April in Northshield!



                                On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:18:20 -0400 Tchipakkan
                                <tchipakkan@...> writes:
                                > > Tchipakkan wrote:
                                > >> hey everyone-
                                > >> I was thinking it would be cool to make a batch of most precious
                                > >> ointment at the Demeter's Return Fair- Thinking that if each of
                                > five
                                > >> people brought 7 herbs, or each of 7 people brought 5, we could
                                >snip<

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                              • Tchipakkan
                                Oh well, the schedual is set and there s no room for that workshop this year- the autocrat suggests we try next year. I ll bring some poison ivy ointment and
                                Message 15 of 24 , Apr 16, 2003
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                                  Oh well, the schedual is set and there's no room for that workshop this
                                  year- the autocrat suggests we try next year. I'll bring some poison ivy
                                  ointment and some 4 theives vinegar- is there anything else anyone else
                                  thinks I should bring?

                                  BTW- I made my first St Johnswort oil last year- very cool the way it turns
                                  red. Anyone else done it?
                                  how do you feel about it's efficacy?
                                  I kind of think it's like the old adage: "a man who only has a hammer sees
                                  all problems as nails", if you already have St. Johnswort oil, you use it on
                                  everything. I haven't tried it for anything except rashes, what experience
                                  have you had?
                                  Tchipakkan
                                  --
                                  "There never was a child so lovely but his mother was glad to get him
                                  asleep." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
                                • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
                                  ... I was all ready to make some when I realized the saponaria had eaten the St. Johnswort. *sigh* -- Jadwiga, still waiting to see if her enormous rue bush is
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Apr 16, 2003
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                                    > BTW- I made my first St Johnswort oil last year- very cool the way it turns
                                    > red. Anyone else done it?

                                    I was all ready to make some when I realized the saponaria had eaten the
                                    St. Johnswort. *sigh*

                                    -- Jadwiga, still waiting to see if her enormous rue bush is going to come
                                    back from the dead...

                                    -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
                                    "Adam was a gardner, and God who made him sees/
                                    That half a proper gardener's work is done upon his knees." - Kipling
                                  • Tchipakkan
                                    ... What s saponaria, a bug? or an invasive herb? tchipakkan
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Apr 16, 2003
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                                      >> BTW- I made my first St Johnswort oil last year- very cool the way it turns
                                      >> red. Anyone else done it?
                                      >
                                      > I was all ready to make some when I realized the saponaria had eaten the
                                      > St. Johnswort. *sigh*
                                      What's saponaria, a bug? or an invasive herb? tchipakkan
                                    • jenne@fiedlerfamily.net
                                      ... It s an invasive herb. One of the varieties is soapwort, and I certainly bought this plant as soapwort, though I ve never tried using it for soap yet. --
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Apr 17, 2003
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                                        > >> BTW- I made my first St Johnswort oil last year- very cool the way it turns
                                        > >> red. Anyone else done it?
                                        > >
                                        > > I was all ready to make some when I realized the saponaria had eaten the
                                        > > St. Johnswort. *sigh*
                                        > What's saponaria, a bug? or an invasive herb? tchipakkan

                                        It's an invasive herb. One of the varieties is soapwort, and I certainly
                                        bought this plant as soapwort, though I've never tried using it for soap
                                        yet.

                                        -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa jenne@...
                                        "Adam was a gardner, and God who made him sees/
                                        That half a proper gardener's work is done upon his knees." - Kipling
                                      • Lady Grania
                                        I don t know how much would be absorbed through the skin but be careful with St. John s Wort if you take birth control pills. I reduces their effectiveness to
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Apr 17, 2003
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                                          I don't know how much would be absorbed through the skin but be careful with St. John's Wort if you take birth control pills.  I reduces their effectiveness to the point that I've a doctor say something about the only use would then be for post partum depression.  ;-)
                                          Grania

                                          jenne@... wrote:
                                          > >> BTW- I made my first St Johnswort oil last year- very cool the way it turns
                                          > >> red. Anyone else done it?
                                          > >
                                          > > I was all ready to make some when I realized the saponaria had eaten the
                                          > > St. Johnswort. *sigh*
                                          > What's saponaria, a bug? or an invasive herb? tchipakkan

                                          It's an invasive herb. One of the varieties is soapwort, and I certainly
                                          bought this plant as soapwort, though I've never tried using it for soap
                                          yet.

                                          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa   jenne@...
                                          "Adam was a gardner, and God who made him sees/
                                          That half a proper gardener's work is done upon his knees." - Kipling



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                                          and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
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                                        • Lila Richards
                                          I don t know how much would be absorbed through the skin but be careful with St. John s Wort if you take birth control pills. I reduces their effectiveness to
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Apr 17, 2003
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                                            I don't know how much would be absorbed through the skin but be careful with St. John's Wort if you take birth control pills.  I reduces their effectiveness to the point that I've a doctor say something about the only use would then be for post partum depression.  ;-)
                                             
                                            I've also heard that it's bad for the liver - presumably if taken over a period of time. So it probably shouldn't be be used as a long-term anti-depressant, or by people with liver problems.
                                             
                                            Sinech.
                                             
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                                          • Tchipakkan
                                            ... here it is: i found it in _A Garden of Herbs_ by Elanor Rohde, 1936 where it s attributed to Receipts in Physick & Chirurgery by Kenelm digby, 1668 I first
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                              > Can someone share the recipe?? Pretty Please??
                                              here it is: i found it in _A Garden of Herbs_ by Elanor Rohde, 1936 where
                                              it's attributed to Receipts in Physick & Chirurgery by Kenelm digby, 1668
                                              I first encountered it when Mistress Anne of Hatfield made it. Fighters
                                              swore by it.

                                              "A MOST PRECIOUS OINTMENT FOR ALL MANNER OF ACHES AND BRUISES: ND ALSO FOR
                                              THE REDNESS OF THE FACE,- Take Violet, Primrose, Elder, Cowslip, leafs and
                                              flowers; Sage, Mugwort, Ragweed, white Lillies, St. Johnswort, Rose-leafs,
                                              Rue, Fetherfew, Tansie, Lovage, Mint, Camomile, Thyme, Dill, Clary, Oak of
                                              Jerusalem, Penyroyal, Hysop, Balm, White Mint, Marygold, Peony-leafs,
                                              Bay-leafs, Saffron, each one handful. Stamp all these in a Stone-mortar, as
                                              you get them then put them in a Pottle of Sallet Oyl, and so let them infuse
                                              there till you have all the rest together; for you cannot get them all at
                                              one time, but get them as fast as you can. Then put to them and the Oyl a
                                              quart of White Wine, and set it over the fire, and boyl it to the
                                              Consumption of the Wine; then take it off and strain it; then put it into a
                                              glass and keep it for use. when you anoint any sore with this do it by the
                                              fire side, chafing it well in; and then lay a Hog's-bladder next to it, and
                                              a Linnen upon that."

                                              Huh, only 30 ingredients- I remembered wrong. And while I remember it being
                                              a true pain collecting them, I wonder if I got Oak of Jerusalem- at this
                                              point I don't even remember what it is! I remember Anne used to leave the
                                              ragwort out because some people could be allergic. Maybe I just left it out.
                                              Looks like a midsummer period for collecting. I'm assuming dill weed, not
                                              seed. Also, what did I use for white mint- and I really doubt I used a
                                              *handful* of saffron. Even now I think I might just take a vial or two of
                                              saffron from the pepperer's guild and then just use equal parts of the
                                              others- a handful? that would cost at least $50!

                                              Still, I think I should try another batch- going to have to use the computer
                                              to shrink down the ingredient list though!

                                              What do you suppose the hog's bladder was for?
                                              --
                                              Tchipakkan
                                              Arastorm the Golden
                                              Lady of Stormgard
                                            • Steven H. Mesnick
                                              ... In context, it looks like the recipe is recommending warmth during and after application, so I d say we re talking hot-water-bottle here. Steffan ap
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                                > when you anoint any sore with this do it by the
                                                > fire side, chafing it well in; and then lay a Hog's-bladder next to it, and
                                                > a Linnen upon that."


                                                COUNTESS ARASTORM ASKS:
                                                > What do you suppose the hog's bladder was for?

                                                In context, it looks like the recipe is recommending warmth during
                                                and after application, so I'd say we're talking hot-water-bottle here.

                                                Steffan ap Kennydd

                                                --
                                                Grant me the company of those who seek truth, and
                                                protect me from those who have found it.
                                              • Tchipakkan
                                                ... that makes sense- so how does one make a hot water bottle out of a bladder? -- Tchipakkan Arastorm the Golden Lady of Stormgard
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Apr 18, 2003
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                                                  > In context, it looks like the recipe is recommending warmth during
                                                  > and after application, so I'd say we're talking hot-water-bottle here.
                                                  >
                                                  > Steffan ap Kennydd
                                                  that makes sense- so how does one make a hot water bottle out of a bladder?
                                                  --
                                                  Tchipakkan
                                                  Arastorm the Golden
                                                  Lady of Stormgard
                                                • Jennifer Heise
                                                  ... Tie or seal the bottom opening shut, fill it with hot water, and fasten the top opening, I think.
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Apr 21, 2003
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                                                    Tchipakkan wrote:
                                                    > > In context, it looks like the recipe is recommending warmth during
                                                    > > and after application, so I'd say we're talking hot-water-bottle here.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Steffan ap Kennydd
                                                    > that makes sense- so how does one make a hot water bottle out of a bladder?

                                                    Tie or seal the bottom opening shut, fill it with hot water, and fasten
                                                    the top opening, I think.

                                                    --- Jadwiga
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