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Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards

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  • sue walker
    Borrowing my wife s e-mail: One thing to remember about mustard is that it is the vinegar that activates the spiciness of the seed, peaking at about ten
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 21, 2002

      Borrowing my wife's e-mail:

      One thing to remember about mustard is that it is the vinegar that "activates" the spiciness of the seed, peaking at about ten minutes and tapering off gradually from there. The fresher the batch, the more potent it will usually be. This is why you can get mustard at, say, a good chinese restaurant, that will be relatively mild, and the next time it will clear your sinuses. Most of the time you'll find that the more potent mustard is the freshest.

      Mustard lover,

      HRH artan

      PS: Ealdgyth adds that if you freeze most herbs, their potency is increased. Would this work for mustard, we wonder?.....artan

        Corwyn and Carowyn <silveroak@...> wrote:


      Greetings!

      > You can try buying some reasonably fresh mustard seed from a spice
      vendor
      >and sow somewhat thickly (to make up for low germination rates) in the
      very
      >early spring, or even now if your soil can be worked. The mesclun and
      greens
      >mustards will also produce usuable seed (if allowed to go to seed, of
      >course); however,  the seed returned from a packet grown will not
      >produce any appreciable quantity of mustard seed .
      >
      >Seamus O'Cleirc, wildcrafter

      Just out of curiousity, have you ever tried the seeds from said mustards?
      I've heard that hand-collected mustard is more potent than the stuff
      bought in the store, but I've never tried it out.  If it is true, then
      you wouldn't need as much seed to produce a good mustard.  Has anyone
      done this, and what are your thoughts?

      -Caro

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    • Mark Zawadzki
      All you need to start the heat is water and ground seed. The acetic acid (vinegar) is just flavor. When you grind mustard, you release two chemicals, myrosin
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002
        All you need to start the heat is water and ground seed. The acetic acid (vinegar) is just flavor.
        When you grind mustard, you release two chemicals, myrosin (an enzyme) and sinalbin (a glucoside). When you add water, you allow these two chemicals to react, the myrosin breaking the sinalbin molecule into  acrinyl isothiocynate ( a pungent oil - the "hot" part) and water .   Heat destroys the enzyme,  as does time. Which explains why heating the mustard as it develops reduces its pungency as well as why fresh seed or powder results in hotter mustard.  Prepared mustard will also lose its potency over time as acrinyl isothiocynate is volatile.
         
                                                    myrosin + sinalbin  =>acrinyl isothiocynate + H20

        | -----Original Message-----
        From: sue walker [mailto:ealdgyth1@...]
        Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 5:19 PM
        To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards

        Borrowing my wife's e-mail:

        One thing to remember about mustard is that it is the vinegar that "activates" the spiciness of the seed, peaking at about ten minutes and tapering off gradually from there. The fresher the batch, the more potent it will usually be. This is why you can get mustard at, say, a good chinese restaurant, that will be relatively mild, and the next time it will clear your sinuses. Most of the time you'll find that the more potent mustard is the freshest.

        Mustard lover,

        HRH artan

        PS: Ealdgyth adds that if you freeze most herbs, their potency is increased. Would this work for mustard, we wonder?.....artan

          Corwyn and Carowyn <silveroak@...> wrote:


        Greetings!

        > You can try buying some reasonably fresh mustard seed from a spice
        vendor
        >and sow somewhat thickly (to make up for low germination rates) in the
        very
        >early spring, or even now if your soil can be worked. The mesclun and
        greens
        >mustards will also produce usuable seed (if allowed to go to seed, of
        >course); however,  the seed returned from a packet grown will not
        >produce any appreciable quantity of mustard seed .
        >
        >Seamus O'Cleirc, wildcrafter

        Just out of curiousity, have you ever tried the seeds from said mustards?
        I've heard that hand-collected mustard is more potent than the stuff
        bought in the store, but I've never tried it out.  If it is true, then
        you wouldn't need as much seed to produce a good mustard.  Has anyone
        done this, and what are your thoughts?

        -Caro

        ________________________________________________________________
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        and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
        information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.

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        and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
        information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.

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        Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
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      • Mark Zawadzki
        Great mustard site .... http://www.gsdunn.com/all-about-mustard.html
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002
          RE: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards

          Great mustard site .... http://www.gsdunn.com/all-about-mustard.html

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: JENNIFER A. HEISE [mailto:jahb@...]
          > Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 4:51 PM
          > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards
          >
          >
          >
          > > Just out of curiousity, have you ever tried the seeds from said
          > > mustards?
          > > I've heard that hand-collected mustard is more potent than the stuff
          > > bought in the store, but I've never tried it out.  If it is
          > true, then
          > > you wouldn't need as much seed to produce a good mustard. 
          > Has anyone
          > > done this, and what are your thoughts?
          >
          > Actually, the 'potentness' of the mustard tends to rely heavily on a)
          > how freshly ground it is, b) how freshly mixed it is, c) how much acid
          > is in it.
          > You could have a free-running mustard with less mustardseed but more
          > bite if it was freshly ground, freshly mixed and used vinegar...
          >
          > -- Jadwiga
          >
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          > discussion of medieval
          > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please
          > verify any health
          > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health
          > professional.
          >
          > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
          > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
          > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
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        • JENNIFER A. HEISE
          ... However, mustard prepared with vinegar (or wine) tends to stay hotter longer. Mustard prepared with vinegar instead of water will stay pretty hot for
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002
            > All you need to start the heat is water and ground seed. The acetic acid (vinegar) is just flavor.
            > When you grind mustard, you release two chemicals, myrosin (an enzyme) and sinalbin (a glucoside). When you add
            > water, you allow these two chemicals to react, the myrosin breaking the sinalbin molecule into acrinyl isothiocynate ( a
            > pungent oil - the "hot" part) and water . Heat destroys the enzyme, as does time. Which explains why heating the
            > mustard as it develops reduces its pungency as well as why fresh seed or powder results in hotter mustard. Prepared
            > mustard will also lose its potency over time as acrinyl isothiocynate is volatile.

            However, mustard prepared with vinegar (or wine) tends to stay hotter
            longer. Mustard prepared with vinegar instead of water will stay pretty
            hot for several days; adding honey and wine seems to make it stay much
            hotter much longer (I made a mustard with wine, honey, wine vinegar and
            some pepper and it took about 4 months to mellow!)

            Period mustards appear to have been prepared with wine, wine must or
            vinegar and left to mellow.

            A gread resource on medieval/renaissance mustard recipes is Greydragon's
            mustard site:
            http://www.greydragon.org/library/mustard.html
            which has lots of period mustard recipes.

            -- Jadwiga
          • Mark Zawadzki
            For best flavor and heat, don t add the acid until the mixture has time to develop it s heat. The optimum pH for the reaction is neutral (7.0), the pH of plain
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002
              RE: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards

              For best flavor and heat, don't add the acid until the mixture has time to develop it's heat. The optimum pH for the reaction is neutral (7.0), the pH of plain old water. Lowering the pH (making more acid) during the first 10 minutes or so results in as less potent product and also may produce bitter overtones.

               The vinegar, achohol (wine) and sugars are preservative and will cause the mustard to retain the heat longer. Alchohol will also increase the solubility of isothiocynate, making it less volatile.

              True, this knowledge is not period, but there it is.
               
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: JENNIFER A. HEISE [mailto:jahb@...]
              > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:18 AM
              > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards
              >
              >
              > > All you need to start the heat is water and ground seed.
              > The acetic acid (vinegar) is just flavor.
              > > When you grind mustard, you release two chemicals, myrosin
              > (an enzyme) and sinalbin (a glucoside). When you add
              > > water, you allow these two chemicals to react, the myrosin
              > breaking the sinalbin molecule into  acrinyl isothiocynate ( a
              > > pungent oil - the "hot" part) and water .   Heat destroys
              > the enzyme,  as does time. Which explains why heating the
              > > mustard as it develops reduces its pungency as well as why
              > fresh seed or powder results in hotter mustard.  Prepared
              > > mustard will also lose its potency over time as acrinyl
              > isothiocynate is volatile.
              >
              > However, mustard prepared with vinegar (or wine) tends to stay hotter
              > longer. Mustard prepared with vinegar instead of water will
              > stay pretty
              > hot for several days; adding honey and wine seems to make it stay much
              > hotter much longer (I made a mustard with wine, honey, wine
              > vinegar and
              > some pepper and it took about 4 months to mellow!)
              >
              > Period mustards appear to have been prepared with wine, wine must or
              > vinegar and left to mellow.
              >
              > A gread resource on medieval/renaissance mustard recipes is
              > Greydragon's
              > mustard site:
              > http://www.greydragon.org/library/mustard.html
              > which has lots of period mustard recipes.
              >
              > -- Jadwiga
              >
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              > --------------------------------------------------------------
              > -------~->
              >
              > -------------------------------------------------------------
              > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for
              > discussion of medieval
              > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please
              > verify any health
              > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health
              > professional.
              >
              > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
              > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
              > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
              >
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              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >

            • Mark Zawadzki
              Seems I can t spell a alcohol ! I drink enough of it, you d think I could spell it ! :-) ... From: Mark Zawadzki [mailto:mark.zawadzki@imedium.com] Sent:
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002
                RE: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards
                Seems I can't spell a alcohol ! I drink enough of it, you'd think I could spell it ! :-)
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Mark Zawadzki [mailto:mark.zawadzki@...]
                Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:36 AM
                To: 'SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com'
                Subject: RE: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards

                For best flavor and heat, don't add the acid until the mixture has time to develop it's heat. The optimum pH for the reaction is neutral (7.0), the pH of plain old water. Lowering the pH (making more acid) during the first 10 minutes or so results in as less potent product and also may produce bitter overtones.

                 The vinegar, achohol (wine) and sugars are preservative and will cause the mustard to retain the heat longer. Alchohol will also increase the solubility of isothiocynate, making it less volatile.

                True, this knowledge is not period, but there it is.
                 
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: JENNIFER A. HEISE [mailto:jahb@...]
                > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:18 AM
                > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards
                >
                >
                > > All you need to start the heat is water and ground seed.
                > The acetic acid (vinegar) is just flavor.
                > > When you grind mustard, you release two chemicals, myrosin
                > (an enzyme) and sinalbin (a glucoside). When you add
                > > water, you allow these two chemicals to react, the myrosin
                > breaking the sinalbin molecule into  acrinyl isothiocynate ( a
                > > pungent oil - the "hot" part) and water .   Heat destroys
                > the enzyme,  as does time. Which explains why heating the
                > > mustard as it develops reduces its pungency as well as why
                > fresh seed or powder results in hotter mustard.  Prepared
                > > mustard will also lose its potency over time as acrinyl
                > isothiocynate is volatile.
                >
                > However, mustard prepared with vinegar (or wine) tends to stay hotter
                > longer. Mustard prepared with vinegar instead of water will
                > stay pretty
                > hot for several days; adding honey and wine seems to make it stay much
                > hotter much longer (I made a mustard with wine, honey, wine
                > vinegar and
                > some pepper and it took about 4 months to mellow!)
                >
                > Period mustards appear to have been prepared with wine, wine must or
                > vinegar and left to mellow.
                >
                > A gread resource on medieval/renaissance mustard recipes is
                > Greydragon's
                > mustard site:
                > http://www.greydragon.org/library/mustard.html
                > which has lots of period mustard recipes.
                >
                > -- Jadwiga
                >
                > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ---------------------~-->
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                > Monitoring Service trial
                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/PJ_qlB/TM
                > --------------------------------------------------------------
                > -------~->
                >
                > -------------------------------------------------------------
                > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for
                > discussion of medieval
                > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please
                > verify any health
                > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health
                > professional.
                >
                > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
                > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >



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                SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.

                Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
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              • Aelfwyn@aol.com
                ... Thanks for the great site, Jadwiga. I have had very good luck with making variations on the Lumbard Mustard from Forme of Cury. It also seems to be a fine
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002

                  http://www.greydragon.org/library/mustard.html

                  Thanks for the great site, Jadwiga. I have had very good luck with making variations on the Lumbard Mustard from Forme of Cury. It also seems to be a fine way to get slightly hesitant males into the kitchen during feast prep. I just hand over the ingredients and a redaction or two and suggest they create something that "tastes good" to them.
                  Has anyone tried making the Platina Mustard Balls? They pique my interest.
                  Aelfwyn
                • Mark Zawadzki
                  Anything for hesitant females (aka my wife ) ? ... From: Aelfwyn@aol.com [mailto:Aelfwyn@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:16 PM To:
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002
                    Anything for hesitant females (aka my wife ) ?
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Aelfwyn@... [mailto:Aelfwyn@...]
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:16 PM
                    To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Mustards


                    http://www.greydragon.org/library/mustard.html

                    Thanks for the great site, Jadwiga. I have had very good luck with making variations on the Lumbard Mustard from Forme of Cury. It also seems to be a fine way to get slightly hesitant males into the kitchen during feast prep. I just hand over the ingredients and a redaction or two and suggest they create something that "tastes good" to them.
                    Has anyone tried making the Platina Mustard Balls? They pique my interest.
                    Aelfwyn


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                    SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
                    and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
                    information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.

                    Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                    Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
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                  • Corwyn and Carowyn
                    Greetings! Okay, now my interest is piqued. Can we get a mustard competition together? Or at least a few regional ones? I d really like to see some of these
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 22, 2002
                      Greetings!

                      Okay, now my interest is piqued. Can we get a mustard competition
                      together? Or at least a few regional ones? I'd really like to see some
                      of these recipes side-by-side. Hmmm....a weekend event, so that we can
                      all get together Friday night and grind our mustards? Jadwiga, can we do
                      this at Landsknecht??

                      -Caro, Instigator #2


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                    • JENNIFER A. HEISE
                      I suspect so. Let me figure out what I m doing between now and then, then remind me about this in, oh, say March. Did we also want to have a julep (drinks made
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 23, 2002
                        I suspect so. Let me figure out what I'm doing between now and then,
                        then remind me about this in, oh, say March.
                        Did we also want to have a julep (drinks made by adding water to syrups)
                        tasting?
                        -- Jadwiga

                        Corwyn and Carowyn wrote:
                        >
                        > Greetings!
                        >
                        > Okay, now my interest is piqued. Can we get a mustard competition
                        > together? Or at least a few regional ones? I'd really like to see
                        > some
                        > of these recipes side-by-side. Hmmm....a weekend event, so that we
                        > can
                        > all get together Friday night and grind our mustards? Jadwiga, can we
                        > do
                        > this at Landsknecht??
                        >
                        > -Caro, Instigator #2
                        >
                        > ________________________________________________________________
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                        > medieval
                        > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any
                        > health
                        > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health
                        > professional.
                        >
                        > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
                        > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
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                      • Corwyn and Carowyn
                        Greetings! ... Who, me, turn down sekanjabin?? No way! Yes, I d also like to see side-by-side comparisons of different mints in sekanjabins. What fun! I ll
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jan 25, 2002
                          Greetings!

                          >I suspect so. Let me figure out what I'm doing between now and then,
                          >then remind me about this in, oh, say March.
                          >Did we also want to have a julep (drinks made by adding water to
                          >syrups) tasting?

                          Who, me, turn down sekanjabin?? No way! Yes, I'd also like to see
                          side-by-side comparisons of different mints in sekanjabins. What fun!
                          I'll remind you in March, and since I'm the one instigating, I'll
                          definitely help.

                          -Caro

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                        • Aelfwyn@aol.com
                          I ve had good luck growing mustard for the leafy greens; yummy salad addition. I would like to try some grown for the seed to grind. Anyone have a suggestion
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 24, 2006
                            I've had good luck growing mustard for the leafy greens; yummy salad addition. I would like to try some grown for the seed to grind. Anyone have a suggestion on a good variety for seed production?
                            Aelfwyn
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