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Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Digest Number 407

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  • Liz Cornell
    Hey Guys!!! I ve done some research on guild symbols and can say that often they were not necessarily heraldically correct. Often times the modern advice we
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 28, 2001
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      Hey Guys!!!
      I've done some research on guild symbols and can say
      that often they were not necessarily "heraldically"
      correct.

      Often times the modern advice we get is how it
      "shoul've been done" as opposed to how it really
      existed! If green on gold could have been
      manufactured, then why not? Most guild symbols existed
      on paper, or a wooden plaque, or a banner but rarely
      on a metal sheild. So it seems to me that you could
      put green paint on top of yellow paint.

      From Elisabetta de Venezia (From Italy where all the
      heraldy makes no sense!)


      --- SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      >
      -------------------------------------------------------------
      > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for
      > discussion of medieval
      > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA.
      > Please verify any health
      > information in other sources and/or with a qualified
      > health professional.
      >
      > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
      > http://www.MedievalMart.com/
      > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom,
      > SCA
      > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to
      > leave this list]
      >
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >
      > There are 4 messages in this issue.
      >
      > Topics in this digest:
      >
      > 1. Badge for EK HAG?
      > From: Jenne Heise
      > <jenne@...>
      > 2. Re: Badge for EK HAG?
      > From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
      > 3. Re: Badge for EK HAG?
      > From: Jenne Heise
      > <jenne@...>
      > 4. Re: Badge for EK HAG?
      > From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 1
      > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:41:30 -0500 (EST)
      > From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
      > Subject: Badge for EK HAG?
      >
      > Hi everyone!
      >
      > Someone mentioned (again) getting together a badge
      > for the EK herbalists &
      > apothecaries' Guild.
      >
      > The thought was a mortar & pestle with some herb on
      > it. Unfortunately, the
      > herb cannot combine green and either gold or white
      > because of the
      > constraints of color on color.
      >
      > My thought was a gold mortar & pestle with some
      > green herb on it... anyone
      > else?
      >
      > --
      > Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
      > jenne@...
      > disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for
      > me.
      > "So we gathered up our differences and threw them in
      > the air
      > And gave them to the wind that shakes the barley..."
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 2
      > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:01:54 -0500
      > From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
      > Subject: Re: Badge for EK HAG?
      >
      > I like it! What would the background color be? If
      > the herb is entirely on
      > the mortar then we will have more options,
      > heraldically speaking.
      > Annys
      >
      > > From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
      > > Reply-To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:41:30 -0500 (EST)
      > > To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Badge for EK HAG?
      > >
      > > Hi everyone!
      > >
      > > Someone mentioned (again) getting together a badge
      > for the EK herbalists &
      > > apothecaries' Guild.
      > >
      > > The thought was a mortar & pestle with some herb
      > on it. Unfortunately, the
      > > herb cannot combine green and either gold or white
      > because of the
      > > constraints of color on color.
      > >
      > > My thought was a gold mortar & pestle with some
      > green herb on it... anyone
      > > else?
      > >
      > > --
      > > Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
      > jenne@...
      > > disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks
      > for me.
      > > "So we gathered up our differences and threw them
      > in the air
      > > And gave them to the wind that shakes the
      > barley..."
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      -------------------------------------------------------------
      > > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily
      > for discussion of medieval
      > > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the
      > SCA. Please verify any health
      > > information in other sources and/or with a
      > qualified health professional.
      > >
      > > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
      > http://www.MedievalMart.com/
      > > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom,
      > SCA
      > > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to
      > leave this list]
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 3
      > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:57:34 -0500 (EST)
      > From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
      > Subject: Re: Badge for EK HAG?
      >
      > > I like it! What would the background color be?
      > If the herb is entirely on
      > > the mortar then we will have more options,
      > heraldically speaking.
      >
      > I'm hoping to go for what is called a 'fieldless'
      > badge, that is, with no
      > background color. That gives us more options, makes
      > it easier to use, and
      > also the College of Arms has a rule that makes it a
      > bit easier to pass
      > that way, to encourage people to have fieldless
      > badges.
      >
      > --
      > Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
      > jenne@...
      > disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for
      > me.
      > "So we gathered up our differences and threw them in
      > the air
      > And gave them to the wind that shakes the barley..."
      >
      >
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      ________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > Message: 4
      > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:12:54 -0500
      > From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
      > Subject: Re: Badge for EK HAG?
      >
      > Sounds good.
      > Annys
      >
      > > From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
      > > Reply-To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:57:34 -0500 (EST)
      > > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
      > > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Badge for EK HAG?
      > >
      > >> I like it! What would the background color be?
      > If the herb is entirely on
      > >> the mortar then we will have more options,
      > heraldically speaking.
      > >
      > > I'm hoping to go for what is called a 'fieldless'
      > badge, that is, with no
      > > background color. That gives us more options,
      > makes it easier to use, and
      > > also the College of Arms has a rule that makes it
      > a bit easier to pass
      > > that way, to encourage people to have fieldless
      > badges.
      > >
      >
      === message truncated ===


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    • HopeAllyson Dwiggins
      Hi Elisabetta, The green on gold isn t a problem. Mind, I am not a herald and only know a little about the subject, but you cannot put certain colors on top
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 29, 2001
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Elisabetta,
        The green on gold isn't a problem. Mind, I am not a herald and only know a
        little about the subject, but you cannot put certain colors on top of
        certain other colors. Gold is a "metal" not a color, so putting green,
        which is a "color", on top of it is not a problem. At least that's the way
        I understand it. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, Heralds.
        Annys

        > From: Liz Cornell <lizcandoit@...>
        > Reply-To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:43:32 -0800 (PST)
        > To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Digest Number 407
        >
        > Hey Guys!!!
        > I've done some research on guild symbols and can say
        > that often they were not necessarily "heraldically"
        > correct.
        >
        > Often times the modern advice we get is how it
        > "shoul've been done" as opposed to how it really
        > existed! If green on gold could have been
        > manufactured, then why not? Most guild symbols existed
        > on paper, or a wooden plaque, or a banner but rarely
        > on a metal sheild. So it seems to me that you could
        > put green paint on top of yellow paint.
        >
        >> From Elisabetta de Venezia (From Italy where all the
        > heraldy makes no sense!)
        >
        >
        > --- SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com wrote:
        >>
        > -------------------------------------------------------------
        >> SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for
        >> discussion of medieval
        >> and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA.
        >> Please verify any health
        >> information in other sources and/or with a qualified
        >> health professional.
        >>
        >> Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
        >> http://www.MedievalMart.com/
        >> Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom,
        >> SCA
        >> [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to
        >> leave this list]
        >>
        > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >>
        >> There are 4 messages in this issue.
        >>
        >> Topics in this digest:
        >>
        >> 1. Badge for EK HAG?
        >> From: Jenne Heise
        >> <jenne@...>
        >> 2. Re: Badge for EK HAG?
        >> From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
        >> 3. Re: Badge for EK HAG?
        >> From: Jenne Heise
        >> <jenne@...>
        >> 4. Re: Badge for EK HAG?
        >> From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        >> Message: 1
        >> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:41:30 -0500 (EST)
        >> From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
        >> Subject: Badge for EK HAG?
        >>
        >> Hi everyone!
        >>
        >> Someone mentioned (again) getting together a badge
        >> for the EK herbalists &
        >> apothecaries' Guild.
        >>
        >> The thought was a mortar & pestle with some herb on
        >> it. Unfortunately, the
        >> herb cannot combine green and either gold or white
        >> because of the
        >> constraints of color on color.
        >>
        >> My thought was a gold mortar & pestle with some
        >> green herb on it... anyone
        >> else?
        >>
        >> --
        >> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
        >> jenne@...
        >> disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for
        >> me.
        >> "So we gathered up our differences and threw them in
        >> the air
        >> And gave them to the wind that shakes the barley..."
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        >> Message: 2
        >> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:01:54 -0500
        >> From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
        >> Subject: Re: Badge for EK HAG?
        >>
        >> I like it! What would the background color be? If
        >> the herb is entirely on
        >> the mortar then we will have more options,
        >> heraldically speaking.
        >> Annys
        >>
        >>> From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
        >>> Reply-To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        >>> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:41:30 -0500 (EST)
        >>> To: sca-herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        >>> Subject: [SCA-Herbalist] Badge for EK HAG?
        >>>
        >>> Hi everyone!
        >>>
        >>> Someone mentioned (again) getting together a badge
        >> for the EK herbalists &
        >>> apothecaries' Guild.
        >>>
        >>> The thought was a mortar & pestle with some herb
        >> on it. Unfortunately, the
        >>> herb cannot combine green and either gold or white
        >> because of the
        >>> constraints of color on color.
        >>>
        >>> My thought was a gold mortar & pestle with some
        >> green herb on it... anyone
        >>> else?
        >>>
        >>> --
        >>> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
        >> jenne@...
        >>> disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks
        >> for me.
        >>> "So we gathered up our differences and threw them
        >> in the air
        >>> And gave them to the wind that shakes the
        >> barley..."
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        > -------------------------------------------------------------
        >>> SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily
        >> for discussion of medieval
        >>> and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the
        >> SCA. Please verify any health
        >>> information in other sources and/or with a
        >> qualified health professional.
        >>>
        >>> Get medieval at Mad Macsen's
        >> http://www.MedievalMart.com/
        >>> Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom,
        >> SCA
        >>> [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to
        >> leave this list]
        >>>
        >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        >> Message: 3
        >> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:57:34 -0500 (EST)
        >> From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
        >> Subject: Re: Badge for EK HAG?
        >>
        >>> I like it! What would the background color be?
        >> If the herb is entirely on
        >>> the mortar then we will have more options,
        >> heraldically speaking.
        >>
        >> I'm hoping to go for what is called a 'fieldless'
        >> badge, that is, with no
        >> background color. That gives us more options, makes
        >> it easier to use, and
        >> also the College of Arms has a rule that makes it a
        >> bit easier to pass
        >> that way, to encourage people to have fieldless
        >> badges.
        >>
        >> --
        >> Jadwiga Zajaczkowa, mka Jennifer Heise
        >> jenne@...
        >> disclaimer: i speak for no-one and no-one speaks for
        >> me.
        >> "So we gathered up our differences and threw them in
        >> the air
        >> And gave them to the wind that shakes the barley..."
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        > ________________________________________________________________________
        >>
        >> Message: 4
        >> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 15:12:54 -0500
        >> From: HopeAllyson Dwiggins <annys@...>
        >> Subject: Re: Badge for EK HAG?
        >>
        >> Sounds good.
        >> Annys
        >>
        >>> From: Jenne Heise <jenne@...>
        >>> Reply-To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        >>> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:57:34 -0500 (EST)
        >>> To: SCA-Herbalist@yahoogroups.com
        >>> Subject: Re: [SCA-Herbalist] Badge for EK HAG?
        >>>
        >>>> I like it! What would the background color be?
        >> If the herb is entirely on
        >>>> the mortar then we will have more options,
        >> heraldically speaking.
        >>>
        >>> I'm hoping to go for what is called a 'fieldless'
        >> badge, that is, with no
        >>> background color. That gives us more options,
        >> makes it easier to use, and
        >>> also the College of Arms has a rule that makes it
        >> a bit easier to pass
        >>> that way, to encourage people to have fieldless
        >> badges.
        >>>
        >>
        > === message truncated ===
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month.
        > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1
        >
        >
        > -------------------------------------------------------------
        > SCA-Herbalist disclaimer: This list is primarily for discussion of medieval
        > and renaissance herbalism and herbalism in the SCA. Please verify any health
        > information in other sources and/or with a qualified health professional.
        >
        > Get medieval at Mad Macsen's http://www.MedievalMart.com/
        > Sponsored by House Wyvern Hall, BBM, East Kingdom, SCA
        > [Email to SCA-Herbalist-unsubscribe@egroups.com to leave this list]
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Jenne Heise
        ... Can you give me some resources to look at, I think it would be very nice to design a guild device (for the heraldically disintrested, that s the armory
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 30, 2001
        • 0 Attachment
          > Hey Guys!!!
          > I've done some research on guild symbols and can say
          > that often they were not necessarily "heraldically"
          > correct.

          Can you give me some resources to look at, I think it would be very nice
          to design a guild 'device' (for the heraldically disintrested, that's the
          armory on the shield thingy, as opposed to the badge, which you are
          supposed to put on things) that is consistent with period practice.

          > Often times the modern advice we get is how it
          > "shoul've been done" as opposed to how it really
          > existed! If green on gold could have been
          > manufactured, then why not? Most guild symbols existed
          > on paper, or a wooden plaque, or a banner but rarely
          > on a metal sheild.

          Certainly true, though the rules of tincture (heraldic color) aren't
          actually based on whether something was on actual metal, but on
          visibility. (You want to be able to tell the guild badge or device from a
          distance, even on a foggy Pennsic morning!)

          Fortunately, Green on Gold is perfectly ok in SCA heraldry as it is a
          'color' (green) on a 'metal' (yellow).

          The trouble was that one of the previous suggestions for the thing on the
          mortar was a yellow flower (with green leaves) and it would be hard to
          find a heraldic tincture to put it on that would have good contrast.

          -- Jadwiga Zajaczkowa
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