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Is the circle cloak period?

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  • J. May
    My roomie and I were talking about this tonight. All I found in the archives was a circle cloaks are more authentic note, no period given. I stopped
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 2, 2006
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      My roomie and I were talking about this tonight. All I found in the archives
      was a "circle cloaks are more authentic" note, no period given. I stopped
      searching at 2003.

      Is the mostly full-with shaped shoulders cloak period?

      Thanks,
      Samia
    • unclrashid
      Uh-oh.... you waved the red flag in front of Rashid. Now you re gonna get the lecture... This is a good example of how the incorrect use of the word period
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 3, 2006
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        Uh-oh.... you waved the red flag in front of Rashid. Now you're
        gonna get the lecture...

        This is a good example of how the incorrect use of the word "period"
        renders information useless. The word "period" is mostly
        meaningless, unless you attach a phrase such as "for (insert city or
        country) in the 1st quarter (or whatever) of the (insert number)
        century".

        Full circle cloaks are for the most part inauthentic and we don't
        have much evidence of them ever being used, except for in the 16th
        century when men wore very short (hip length) full circle cloaks.
        and they wore them draped under one arm and over the other shoulder.
        There are some sculptures of the 15th century which show very full
        cloaks which may be full circle cloaks, but that's hard to prove from
        a photo of a statue.

        According to extant garments, half circle cloaks (with or without
        shaped shoulders) seem to have been common in Europe from about 1100
        to 1500. They usually did not have attached hoods, as seperate hoods
        were common and sometimes worn without the cloak.

        I have patterns and cutting layouts for cloaks and hoods at this site:

        http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/GarbWorkshops.php

        Rashid



        --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, "J. May" <mnmay@...> wrote:
        >
        > My roomie and I were talking about this tonight. All I found in the
        archives
        > was a "circle cloaks are more authentic" note, no period given. I
        stopped
        > searching at 2003.
        >
        > Is the mostly full-with shaped shoulders cloak period?
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Samia
        >
      • Ciorstan
        unclrashid wrote: *snip* ... I will agree that the majority of surviving medieval cloaks were half-circles, but what about the pelicon? This is one of my
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 3, 2006
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          unclrashid wrote:
          *snip*


          > Full circle cloaks are for the most part inauthentic and we don't
          > have much evidence of them ever being used, except for in the 16th
          > century when men wore very short (hip length) full circle cloaks.
          > and they wore them draped under one arm and over the other shoulder.
          > There are some sculptures of the 15th century which show very full
          > cloaks which may be full circle cloaks, but that's hard to prove from
          > a photo of a statue.
          >
          > According to extant garments, half circle cloaks (with or without
          > shaped shoulders) seem to have been common in Europe from about 1100
          > to 1500. They usually did not have attached hoods, as separate hoods
          > were common and sometimes worn without the cloak.
          >
          > I have patterns and cutting layouts for cloaks and hoods at this site:
          >
          > http://www.feoragdubh.eastkingdom.org/GarbWorkshops.php
          >
          > Rashid


          I will agree that the majority of surviving medieval cloaks were
          half-circles, but what about the pelicon? This is one of my all-time
          favorite garments. Scroll down the page to Lady de Northwode:

          http://www.whitewinds.co.uk/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whitewinds.co.uk/acatalog/N_to_P.html&CatalogBody

          It is a flat garment with a funky buttoned hood. The original garment is
          lined with miniver in a vair pattern (squirrel skins and their lighter
          bellies), which would be a very thin fur.

          Mary Houston has a cutting diagram for the pelicon in "Medieval Costume
          in England and France, 13th, 14th and 15th Century." This is an
          inexpensive Dover paperback and though it was originally printed in the
          mid 1930s, Houston's re-drawings do not suffer from the problems in
          Norris-- e.g., her drawings look like real medieval art sources and not
          Mary Pickford or Douglas Fairbanks in fancy dress.

          ciorstan
        • unclrashid
          Good point. That s not what people usually mean when they say cloak . But if they want to be warm and authentic, it is a good way to go! Rashid ... time ...
          Message 4 of 5 , Sep 4, 2006
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            Good point. That's not what people usually mean when they
            say "cloak". But if they want to be warm and authentic, it is a good
            way to go!

            Rashid


            --- In SCA-Garb@yahoogroups.com, Ciorstan <ciorstan@...> wrote:

            > I will agree that the majority of surviving medieval cloaks were
            > half-circles, but what about the pelicon? This is one of my all-
            time
            > favorite garments. Scroll down the page to Lady de Northwode:
            >
            > http://www.whitewinds.co.uk/acatalog/index.html?http%
            3A//www.whitewinds.co.uk/acatalog/N_to_P.html&CatalogBody
            >
            > It is a flat garment with a funky buttoned hood. The original
            garment is
            > lined with miniver in a vair pattern (squirrel skins and their
            lighter
            > bellies), which would be a very thin fur.
            >
            > Mary Houston has a cutting diagram for the pelicon in "Medieval
            Costume
            > in England and France, 13th, 14th and 15th Century." This is an
            > inexpensive Dover paperback and though it was originally printed in
            the
            > mid 1930s, Houston's re-drawings do not suffer from the problems in
            > Norris-- e.g., her drawings look like real medieval art sources and
            not
            > Mary Pickford or Douglas Fairbanks in fancy dress.
            >
            > ciorstan
            >
          • Lente
            Now I know where a friend got inspiration for her pelicon/cloak. Mary Houston s books are all pretty good, definitely steps above Norris that I can tell from a
            Message 5 of 5 , Sep 4, 2006
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              Now I know where a friend got inspiration for her pelicon/cloak. Mary
              Houston's books are all pretty good, definitely steps above Norris that I
              can tell from a perusal through a friend's Norris. Her drawings are way
              better, this one of lady Northwode is the 3rd or 4th image I've found on the
              internet and have found all the drawings to be pretty much spot on to the
              images. Facial expressions are about the only area that it gets iffy I've
              noticed and facial expressions are hard to figure out.

              Kathws

              Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 2:44 PM
              Subject: Re: [SCA-Garb] Re: Is the circle cloak period?
              > I will agree that the majority of surviving medieval cloaks were
              > half-circles, but what about the pelicon? This is one of my all-time
              > favorite garments. Scroll down the page to Lady de Northwode:
              >
              > http://www.whitewinds.co.uk/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.whitewinds.co.uk/acatalog/N_to_P.html&CatalogBody
              >
              > It is a flat garment with a funky buttoned hood. The original garment is
              > lined with miniver in a vair pattern (squirrel skins and their lighter
              > bellies), which would be a very thin fur.
              >
              > Mary Houston has a cutting diagram for the pelicon in "Medieval Costume
              > in England and France, 13th, 14th and 15th Century." This is an
              > inexpensive Dover paperback and though it was originally printed in the
              > mid 1930s, Houston's re-drawings do not suffer from the problems in
              > Norris-- e.g., her drawings look like real medieval art sources and not
              > Mary Pickford or Douglas Fairbanks in fancy dress.
              >
              > ciorstan
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